Belinelli

[Rapsobsessed7]

ok so since Smith is gone to memphis now can we focus on.

Raptors Trade:
S&T Pops
Douby

Warriors Trade:
Belinelli

[NW]

This is the problem with GSW and Toronto GMs; they overvalue their exisiting talent and forget about filling needs. Morrow is quality player on a great contract. However, will GSW be able to retain him next year without going over the cap? Unlikely. Will he get enough minutes with the Ellis, Curry, Jax rotation? I know many think that Jax will play SF, but then Magette is on the bench. Will Morrow get more minutes than Magette? doubt it. Will Morrow get more minutes than Curry -- the guy that prevented GSW from getting Stoudamare? Doubt it. Need to use Morrow now to fill needs and re-balance rosters. Never going to happen with GSW GM/fans. Trades are about more than talent -- they are about money, cap space, balance and need. Championshihp teams regularly overpay on talent to fit needs or acquire other teams flotsam and make them useful.

Take the Orlando trade with LAL a few years ago. When LA sent Mo Evans and Brian Cook to orlando for Ariza, it looked like a salary dump for LA. Orlando got 2 players who played for a player who did not. It was a good trade then, but a bad trade now because of the development of Ariza. Same is true with the Rad trade for Morrison and Brown. A pure salary dump by LA, but Brown was resigned and is useable. GMs need to figure how players are to be used. Morrow is capable, but where are his minutes and will GSW resign him. If not, then move him for a useable part and not worry about the talent exchange.

So many things wrong with this:
1. Yes Morrow will get enough minutes in the lineup. Jackson starts at SF, Maggette IS on the bench and plays 4 in Nelson's small ball lineup. He will get more minutes than Curry, who is a rookie and the fact he was a dealbreaker in the Amare deal has absolutely no relevence.

2. With Law, Claxton and possibly either Wright or Marco coming off the books at the end of the season, re-signing Morrow won't be a problem.

3.3. You tried to pawn off Jsoh freakin' Powell and Jason Smith on us in return - who don't come close to adding what we lose in Morrow (ie one of the best perimeter shooters in the game)

[don nelson]

This is the problem with GSW and Toronto GMs; they overvalue their exisiting talent and forget about filling needs. Morrow is quality player on a great contract. However, will GSW be able to retain him next year without going over the cap? Unlikely. Will he get enough minutes with the Ellis, Curry, Jax rotation? I know many think that Jax will play SF, but then Magette is on the bench. Will Morrow get more minutes than Magette? doubt it. Will Morrow get more minutes than Curry -- the guy that prevented GSW from getting Stoudamare? Doubt it. Need to use Morrow now to fill needs and re-balance rosters. Never going to happen with GSW GM/fans. Trades are about more than talent -- they are about money, cap space, balance and need. Championshihp teams regularly overpay on talent to fit needs or acquire other teams flotsam and make them useful.

Take the Orlando trade with LAL a few years ago. When LA sent Mo Evans and Brian Cook to orlando for Ariza, it looked like a salary dump for LA. Orlando got 2 players who played for a player who did not. It was a good trade then, but a bad trade now because of the development of Ariza. Same is true with the Rad trade for Morrison and Brown. A pure salary dump by LA, but Brown was resigned and is useable. GMs need to figure how players are to be used. Morrow is capable, but where are his minutes and will GSW resign him. If not, then move him for a useable part and not worry about the talent exchange.

So many things wrong with this:
1. Yes Morrow will get enough minutes in the lineup. Jackson starts at SF, Maggette IS on the bench and plays 4 in Nelson's small ball lineup. He will get more minutes than Curry, who is a rookie and the fact he was a dealbreaker in the Amare deal has absolutely no relevence.

2. With Law, Claxton and possibly either Wright or Marco coming off the books at the end of the season, re-signing Morrow won't be a problem.

3.3. You tried to pawn off Jsoh freakin' Powell and Jason Smith on us in return - who don't come close to adding what we lose in Morrow (ie one of the best perimeter shooters in the game)

+1. FYI, Golden State already has 13 players already contract for the 2009-2010 season and is still about $8 million under the luxury tax limit. Even if the Warriors choose to match CJ Watson's $1.8 million offer sheet from Orlando, the Warriors will still have enough room to use their entire MLE without exceeding luxury threshold. If the salary cap declines as the NBA has predicted for the 2010-2011 season, Golden State will have sufficent cap space because Speedy Claxton's $5.2 million contract expires. The bottom line is cap space is not an issue with Golden State so there's no reason whatsoever for the Warriors to be hauling away Toronto's unwanted trash in the name of cap space unless the Raptors are offering some first round draft choices as compensation.

[don nelson]

ok so since Smith is gone to memphis now can we focus on.

Raptors Trade:
S&T Pops
Douby

Warriors Trade:
Belinelli

Rather keep Belinelli rather than waste two rosters spots for Pops and Douby who would only suit up for Warrior games in coats and ties. Trading for Pops and Douby in these current economic times is literally just like flushing money down the toilet for nothing. Warriors obviously say no.

[old rem]

I'd MUCH rather have Azubuike or Morrow than DeRozean...and since we DO have them...Beli for DeRozean would be redundant. By the way...if you had all 3....Morrow probably starts ahead of Beli at SG. But.....Morrow is simply NOT available in any trade now.

If Evans had some skills on offense we probably would have traded for him before you did. However...now he's a guy with too much contract and not enough role.

thanks for the laugh

beli wouldnt be enough to even let you sniff derozan much less come close to a trade, same goes for the other 2 role players you mentioned who don't even sniff derozan's trade value.

Bull......I was afraid we MIGHT draft DeRozean. The guy lacks Beli's handles,Azubuikes speed,power and range and when it comes to Morrow's shooting touch...Morrow shoots better from 25 than DeRo does from 15. I saw USC about 4 times and generally it was Taj Gibson who was impressive. DeRozean was apt to dissapear if the D wasn't leaving easy lanes to drive through. He has good hops on an uncontested dunk. He's got a good J from midrange...but I doubt he can hit 30 % from the NBA 3..
Morrow shot .467 from 3. He actually was over 48% most of the season. For perspective..In their BEST
years...Ray Allen,Larry Bird,Reggie Miller,Jordan,Mike Miller,Downtown Freddie Brown,Chris Mullin....did not reach . 467. Mark Price got .486 one year.

Steve Kerr topped 50% 4 times...but Kerr was so one-skill he never had a 9 ppg season in his whole career. Beli and DeRozean are about the same size..but Beli can play PG. Beli shot a nice 39% from 3,had a number of 20 pt games.

Azubuike's 3% was #4 in the league...about even with Bird's best %. Azu was not hitting the first month and he tailed off a bit late season when he was playing 35-40 min.....he had a month midseason where he shot over 50% from 3. Azu is an exceptional athlete...carries almost 20 lb more than DeRozean..and is faster. He's built like an NFL RB and Nellie used him a lot as a pseudo PF.
His ability to play inside with power,to run in transition and to hit the 3 makes him a big plus in the Nellie style. If we did not have 4 guys shooting enough to average 18+ each...Azubuike could have had a 20 ppg year. Even so....Azu scored about as high in the NBA as DeRozean did in college...and DeRozean was supposed to be USC's go to shooter,not the #5 scorer.

But....so what.....I don't need DeRozean or want him....we have guys who do everything he can..and more. Our options at SG include 4 guys who scored over 30 in an NBA game this year...plus Belinelli...plus Curry..who was the top scorer in the NCAA. That's not even counting Maggette at SG.

Enjoy DeRozean.....he should be an improvement on what the Raps had at SG. If his trade value is what you think it is...do the trade.

[old rem]

DeRozean scored 13.9 as a college player this season.....less than Azubuike scored as an NBA player.
DeRozean ranked #324 among college scorers...not real studly for a guy who's whole resume seems to be that he can score. A 6-6 G/F who's not a passer has to have SOME range......DeRozean made SIX 3's on the season....16.7 %. Morrow made 86 3's from NBA range this year.

DeRozean's peak game...he had 25 pt. Morrow's first NBA start..he scored 37.

If DD gets a lot of muscle and a J ...in a few years maybe he can be Corey Maggette.

High School superhero...a real Josh McRoberts I guess. I don't see where DeRozean has any particular skill at this point that seperates him from the crowd. He pretty much got a free pass to rd 1 off being a HS big name. Morrow and Azu had to earn it. They never got the silver spoon.

Sure I can compare Morrow to Reggie Miller as a 3 shooter. Morrow just topped Reggie's best year in that category...fact. I never compared them in terms of a full career. I expect Morrow is a starter for GSW...full time...maybe by the end of this season. I expect he will have a better career than DeRozean. I am certain GSW is not gonna flinch when it comes to resigning him in a couple years.

The Warriors probably will buy out Claxton,trade A Law and add 3rd string depth at F+C. After that...there really won't be TOO MANY guards.....just more GOOD guards than we can use all at once. When it's time to cull the herd,later on,we will be looking to move the older,high $ guys...not the guys who are budget friendly and have a great future.

[TiKusDom]

DeRozean scored 13.9 as a college player this season.....less than Azubuike scored as an NBA player.
DeRozean ranked #324 among college scorers...not real studly for a guy who's whole resume seems to be that he can score. A 6-6 G/F who's not a passer has to have SOME range......DeRozean made SIX 3's on the season....16.7 %. Morrow made 86 3's from NBA range this year.

DeRozean's peak game...he had 25 pt. Morrow's first NBA start..he scored 37.

If DD gets a lot of muscle and a J ...in a few years maybe he can be Corey Maggette.

High School superhero...a real Josh McRoberts I guess. I don't see where DeRozean has any particular skill at this point that seperates him from the crowd. He pretty much got a free pass to rd 1 off being a HS big name. Morrow and Azu had to earn it. They never got the silver spoon.

Sure I can compare Morrow to Reggie Miller as a 3 shooter. Morrow just topped Reggie's best year in that category...fact. I never compared them in terms of a full career. I expect Morrow is a starter for GSW...full time...maybe by the end of this season. I expect he will have a better career than DeRozean. I am certain GSW is not gonna flinch when it comes to resigning him in a couple years.

The Warriors probably will buy out Claxton,trade A Law and add 3rd string depth at F+C. After that...there really won't be TOO MANY guards.....just more GOOD guards than we can use all at once. When it's time to cull the herd,later on,we will be looking to move the older,high $ guys...not the guys who are budget friendly and have a great future.

thanks for the laughs again

[EventHorizon]

I really like Pops, but I also really like Belinelli. I think it's a fair trade for both teams. Actually I'll be happy with either player, Beli has potential and Pops averaged 5 & 5 in 12 minutes.

[old rem]

I like Pops..but now I know that since he's a low end FA..we don't NEED to trade Beli for him. Further...Beli has more value..and Douby does not do anything for us,but may get a chance in Toronto.
I can't see the needed extra thing Tor can send,unless there's something based on picks.

Toronto might do some other deal this summer that does create a better possible balance to do a Beli trade.

[4peter64]

As for NW's passionate defense of Morrow, I kindly differ.

1. While the passion for Morrow is admirable, we are talking about a 10ppg player who got 22 mpg with all of the injuries at GSW. There is no way GSW will have the same bad luck with injuries and they added Curry. Morrow, as the low contract guy, will get his minutes squeezed. In addition, he will get squeezed because he cannot defend, pass or do the small things needed to win games. As it stands, it would not be surprising if Belinelli got more PT than Morrow.

2. magette will play some 4 in the small ball line-up, but that is a change of pace situation and doe snot result in big minutes. Even then, if GSW is going small, Curry will be playing not Morrow.

3. As for Smith and Powell, both will get more minutes with GSW than Morrow. Powell's numbers and minutes increased significantly with the Lakers after Powell left GSW. His numbers improved and he played twice as many games in in LA v. GSW. Ever thought that he got better or that Nellie was wrong about him. In addition, Powell's numbers are better than Turiaf and you have been pleased with him. Powell replaced Ronnie in LA and the production went up with the exchange. As for Smith, he can run, has size and spreads the floor. What else is GSW looking for in a back-up? Foul trouble for Biedris and Turiaf were real concerns and Smith and Powell give GSW serviceable options that will get more PT than the players exchagned for these two.

4. As for the GSW cap situation, they are under the lux tax for this year, but if the cap drops, they will have problems next year. Even with the expirings of Claxton and others, these players need to be repalced at the vet's min. You also need to add your lottery pick from the 2010 draft, which means you are up $3.0 mm. The cap drops 10%, the lux tax is at $63, GSW will have $55m committed, but the draft pick and replacement players of another $2.0mm. Thus, there is not alot of space to retain your players, much like Philly this year. Some space, but not enough to make real improvements.

[TiKusDom]

As for NW's passionate defense of Morrow, I kindly differ.

1. While the passion for Morrow is admirable, we are talking about a 10ppg player who got 22 mpg with all of the injuries at GSW. There is no way GSW will have the same bad luck with injuries and they added Curry. Morrow, as the low contract guy, will get his minutes squeezed. In addition, he will get squeezed because he cannot defend, pass or do the small things needed to win games. As it stands, it would not be surprising if Belinelli got more PT than Morrow.

2. magette will play some 4 in the small ball line-up, but that is a change of pace situation and doe snot result in big minutes. Even then, if GSW is going small, Curry will be playing not Morrow.

3. As for Smith and Powell, both will get more minutes with GSW than Morrow. Powell's numbers and minutes increased significantly with the Lakers after Powell left GSW. His numbers improved and he played twice as many games in in LA v. GSW. Ever thought that he got better or that Nellie was wrong about him. In addition, Powell's numbers are better than Turiaf and you have been pleased with him. Powell replaced Ronnie in LA and the production went up with the exchange. As for Smith, he can run, has size and spreads the floor. What else is GSW looking for in a back-up? Foul trouble for Biedris and Turiaf were real concerns and Smith and Powell give GSW serviceable options that will get more PT than the players exchagned for these two.

4. As for the GSW cap situation, they are under the lux tax for this year, but if the cap drops, they will have problems next year. Even with the expirings of Claxton and others, these players need to be repalced at the vet's min. You also need to add your lottery pick from the 2010 draft, which means you are up $3.0 mm. The cap drops 10%, the lux tax is at $63, GSW will have $55m committed, but the draft pick and replacement players of another $2.0mm. Thus, there is not alot of space to retain your players, much like Philly this year. Some space, but not enough to make real improvements.

This 24 year old role player averaging 10 points per game is going to have a better career than the 19 year old DeRozan according to OldRem lets not forget this for future reference ..... and "might" be as good as the turd mountain Corey M in a few years ooh and yet no GM in their right mind would trade DD for crap mountain Corey M or Beli or Azu or Morrow in any straight up deal... go figure. Oh please old rem do tell us how awesome your role players are

Free pass from high school? Yeah people were dying to give DeRozan a free pass , his MVP tournament and destroying harden in the PAC-10 championship game had nothing to do with it... Some one is living on delusional island

DeRozean scored 13.9 as a college player this season.....less than Azubuike scored as an NBA player.
DeRozean ranked #324 among college scorers...not real studly for a guy who's whole resume seems to be that he can score. A 6-6 G/F who's not a passer has to have SOME range......DeRozean made SIX 3's on the season....16.7 %. Morrow made 86 3's from NBA range this year.

DeRozean's peak game...he had 25 pt. Morrow's first NBA start..he scored 37.

Oh wow morrow scored 37 on the LA Clippers. A Defensive juggernaut of the NBA.

If DD gets a lot of muscle and a J ...in a few years maybe he can be Corey Maggette.

High School superhero...a real Josh McRoberts I guess. I don't see where DeRozean has any particular skill at this point that seperates him from the crowd. He pretty much got a free pass to rd 1 off being a HS big name. Morrow and Azu had to earn it. They never got the silver spoon.

Yeah people gave a Compton kid a silver spoon , the fact that he was better than both players in his first year in college had nothing to do with it....wow you are out to lunch.

Azu is an exceptional athlete...carries almost 20 lb more than DeRozean..and is faster. He's built like an NFL RB and Nellie used him a lot as a pseudo PF.

Oh no you dont say , a player who is 25 and turning 26 in 5 months.. is bigger than a 19 year old rookie? Noooo really. I would hope that someone who is turning 26 would have a little bit more muscle than a 19 year old. Yet at the same age Buke was nothing more than a bench player for UK while DeRozan was winning MVPs and Pac - 10 tournaments... Also Buke is listed at 220 Derozan at 211 at the combines.... your math skills are terrible, 9 is almost 20 ? You are quite a bit off that doesnt add up to 20 now does it or your rounding skills just suck mucho grando. Who rounds up 9 to 20? Oh right you do .... mr credibility himself 9 pounds heavier being 5 years older , whoopee, and yet if the draft was held today GMs would take DD over Buke 100 times out of 100.

espn and NBA.com lists
buke
Birth Date December 16, 1983
Birth Place London, England
Height 6-5
Weight 220 lbs.

ESPN.com lists DD at

Birth Date August 7, 1989
Birth Place Compton, CA
Height 6-7
Weight 220 lbs.

Draft Combine measurements
DeMar DeRozan, USC 6' 5.25" 6' 6.25" 211.2 6' 9" 8' 6.25" 4.9

Your math skills suck or you just don't know what you are talking about.... or you're just trying to over hype your own role players like usual. Man those 9 pounds turned into 20 real fast! Buke is apparently a monster compared to DeRozan being 9 pounds heavier but 20 pounds according to you. Nice rounding skills there. Dont forget to tell us how Buke can also shoot fireballs out of his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse. Faster than a speeding bullet and strong enough to bend time.

[ferpiel]

With Delfino out of the picture this would be the perfect guy to come off the bench to backup the SG. He can provide the scoring punch off the bench that we needed Delfino for and he is also an excellent ballhandler/facilitator off the pick and roll.

Calderon/ DeRozan / Turkoglu / Bosh / Bargnani
J. Jack / Belinelli / Wright / Evans / Rasho

I've actually watched this guy alot in GS and internationally and trust me he's going to break out when he gets the opportunity. Can he be aquired from GS for Hump/ Ukic?

Did'nt notice it before.
Onions, you are a foreseeing wizard.
Congratulations to your basketball competence.
You'll be a friend to me.
Hand-shake.

[old rem]

...whatever. Azubuike and Morrow are still better than DeRozean,and Belinnelli can be better.

Morrow had 30 the other night vs the Suns, and is still among the best "pure shooters" in the NBA.
Yeah...it's the Clips but I don't see everyone dropping 37 on the Clips. I sure can't find a rookie in his first start scoring 37...no matter against who..

Okay...DD gained a few post season pounds.....he's still a tweener,small for F without the G game. I don't say he's no talent,but that he's some years from being = the hype.

Anyhow...pretty old thread.

[ferpiel]

...whatever. Azubuike and Morrow are still better than DeRozean,and Belinnelli can be better.

Morrow had 30 the other night vs the Suns, and is still among the best "pure shooters" in the NBA.
Yeah...it's the Clips but I don't see everyone dropping 37 on the Clips. I sure can't find a rookie in his first start scoring 37...no matter against who..

Okay...DD gained a few post season pounds.....he's still a tweener,small for F without the G game. I don't say he's no talent,but that he's some years from being = the hype.

Anyhow...pretty old thread.

I know GSW dudes.
Azubuike and Morrow are on the same level as Belinelli is.
A very hight level, I mean.
Now GSW fans are in love with Randolph (a kind of DeRozan).
GSW has always had too many shooting guards fitting their short-ball system.
Beli can attack the rim.
That's the difference.
But Azubuike is a better shooter than Beli.
And Morrows grabs more rebounds.

[Kabookalu]

He's definitely available but we'd want something useful...Ukic would just be warming a seat.

We do have Devean George if you would like an expiring.

I know this is an old thread and (it should have been) created before the Belinelli trade, but wow, spot on!

[turk3d]

Belinelli was just Don Nelson's gift to Colangelo. Why? I don't have a clue. Maybe he's expecting Jerry to return the favor at some point.

[BlackIce]

Funny reading this thread.

[Nolan]

Hats off to whoever bumped this.