New York/Minnesota/Charlotte 8 Player Deal...

Post #1 » by **pja123** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:27 pm

Knicks get:
Brian Cardinal
Acie Law IV
Alexis Ajinca

Wolves get:
Gerald Henderson
Jared Jeffries

Cats get:
Jordan Hill
Damien Wilkens
Marcus Landry

WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE KNICKS:
They dump Jeffries' contract while acquiring a package of expiring deals. This would open up an additional $6 mill in cap space for the Knicks and potentially enable them to sign two top-notch free agents, or at least have the space to sign a max free agent and a quality mid-level free agent. Losing Hill would be tough, but I think Walsh would do it if he truly believes he can land Bron/Stoudemire or Johnson/Bosh combo.

WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE WOLVES:
They take on the extra year of Jeffries contract, but get a quality prospect in Gerald Henderson to help on the perimeter. He's shown flashes of being a lethal scorer and the Wolves could use a legit wingman to compliment their frontcourt talent.

WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE CATS:
The Cats could use a big like Hill at the 4 spot. He's got tremendous upside and would pair nicely with Chandler. Since they recently acquired Jax to fill the 2G spot and Wallace locked for 4 years at the 3 spot, Henderson isn't really needed. They get a good replacement to come off the bench in Damien Wilkens.

john2jer · Post #2 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:43 pm

It must be crappy trade day for the Wolves. Wolves aren't taking on Jared Jeffries to get another poor SG prospect in Gerald Henderson. We'd be better off taking on Wilson Chandler. We already have Wayne Ellington, who really isn't THAT much different than Henderson.

The Wolves could find a much better SG for the nearly $9mil this trade would cost us in 2010. Hell, just wait for the draft and the Wolves could find a much better SG.

Esohny · Post #3 » by **Esohny** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:46 pm

john2jer wrote:It must be crappy trade day for the Wolves. Wolves aren't taking on Jared Jeffries to get another poor SG prospect in Gerald Henderson. We'd be better off taking on Wilson Chandler. We already have Wayne Ellington, who really isn't THAT much different than Henderson.

The Wolves could find a much better SG for the nearly $9mil this trade would cost us in 2010. Hell, just wait for the draft and the Wolves could find a much better SG.

True.

Post #4 » by **Worm Guts** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:52 pm

I can see why someone could think this is a good trade for the Wolves. Henderson is a recent lottery pick at the 2 and Jeffries could provide some help on the wing immediately, but ultimately J2J is right. The Wolves are better off focusing on getting a wing in the draft and signing one with their cap space.

Post #5 » by **pja123** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:48 pm

I think the Wolves should forget about 2010 free agents, especially at 2G. Players like Joe Johnson, Wade, or Pierce are not coming to Minnesota. The only other decent 2G free agents are restricted players like Anthony Morrow and Ronnie Brewer (Minnesota would probably have to overpay to force their current teams not to match).

Getting a guy like Henderson solidifies the 2G spot and would allow Minnesota to focus their draft selection on a talented SF (Evan Turner, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Wes Johnson come to mind).

john2jer · Post #6 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:56 pm

pja123 wrote:I think the Wolves should forget about 2010 free agents, especially at 2G. Players like Joe Johnson, Wade, or Pierce are not coming to Minnesota. The only other decent 2G free agents are restricted players like Anthony Morrow and Ronnie Brewer (Minnesota would probably have to overpay to force their current teams not to match).

Getting a guy like Henderson solidifies the 2G spot and would allow Minnesota to focus their draft selection on a talented SF (Evan Turner, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Wes Johnson come to mind).

Are you kidding me? That's seriously your argument? I thought you were better than that. "No one is going to Minnesota, so take my crappy trade offer."

Evan Turner is a SG. And even beyond Turner, a better SG than Gerald Henderson can be found in a trade or with either the Charlotte or Utah pick and would compartively cheaper than the $9mil you have us taking on here.

The Wolves would seriously prefer to do nothing. Hell, Corey Brewer brings more to the Wolves now than Gerald Henderson would.

I'm sure you're aware that cap space can be used in a trade, right? Right?

Also, with Utah shedding salary, I don't think Ronnie Brewer would be that tough to obtain from the Jazz.

Like I said, Wilson Chandler would be a better option, and the Wolves don't want him in this kind of deal.

Swammy · Post #7 » by **Swammy** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:04 pm

Knicks pass. Hill is no bum; hes in a bad position bc the Knicks are trying to showcase JJ. I think after the deadline they will start playing him a lot more.
Knicks could just trade JJ this off season so we dont need to include a lottery pick at this point.

shrink · Post #8 » by **shrink** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:21 pm

Swammy wrote:Knicks pass. Hill is no bum; hes in a bad position bc the Knicks are trying to showcase JJ. I think after the deadline they will start playing him a lot more.
Knicks could just trade JJ this off season so we dont need to include a lottery pick at this point.

Give me a break. 14 teams are over the lux, and both the lux and cap are poised to drop $6 mil more. No one is going to take on Jeffries without incentive, and personally, I don't think even Jordan Hill is enough.

If NYK waits until the off-season, then they won't clear the cap space.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #9 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:28 pm

pja123 wrote:I think the Wolves should forget about 2010 free agents, especially at 2G. Players like Joe Johnson, Wade, or Pierce are not coming to Minnesota. The only other decent 2G free agents are restricted players like Anthony Morrow and Ronnie Brewer (Minnesota would probably have to overpay to force their current teams not to match).

MN should forget about overpaying for Morrow or Brewer and focus in on overpaying for Jared Jeffries?

Post #10 » by **pja123** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:10 pm

Paying Jeffries $6 mill this year and $6.5 mill next year while getting a young, starting caliber 2G is better than signing Morrow or Brewer to a 5-year/$30-40 million contract. Just my opinion, you may be happy to overpay like that.

Clearly you all are not keen on Henderson. I think he's going to be a very good player. Reminds me a lot of Rip Hamilton.

But if Wolves fans want to hold out hopes of landing a quality free agent in 2010, I understand. It's an alluring prospect. Just keep in mind the Chicago Bulls circa 2000. They were a young team, similar to where the Wolves are now. They hoarded their cap space in the hopes of signing Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan. They wound up with Ron Mercer and Brad Miller.

shrink · Post #11 » by **shrink** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:23 pm

pja123 wrote: But if Wolves fans want to hold out hopes of landing a quality free agent in 2010, I understand.

I don't think that's it. Cap space is just going to have so many great uses in addition to landing a top free agent, because so many teams will be desperate to carve off some cap space.

For example, dflashenberg just posted doing a deal where they send cap space to a team just over the lux in exchange for a pick swap. Or perhaps a team wishes to start a rebuild and deal a player who's over the MLE? Or a team could want cap space in a S&T. There's plenty of team who will want valuable commodity like raw cap space to fix lux or salary cap problems.

john2jer · Post #12 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:23 pm

Gerald Henderson isn't a starting quality shooting guard. If he was, he wouldn't be averaging 9 minutes per game on a team struggling to make the play-offs.

Here I thought you were smarter than this. Again, you realize cap space can be traded, right? Look back to when the Wolves were able to pick up Utah's 1st round pick by openning up cap space for the 76ers. Look at last week when the Thunder were able to pick up Eric Maynor for taking on Matt Harpring's 80% insurance covered contract.

Cap space can accomplish a lot more than just targeting top level free agents.

Word of advice, you're going to get a lot better discussions if you don't come with the attitude, "No one is going to sign with your crappy team, so take the garbage offered in this trade because it's the best you get."

What did you expect, "Oh sure, since you put it that way..."

You're better than that Patrick.

john2jer · Post #13 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:25 pm

pja123 wrote:Paying Jeffries $6 mill this year and $6.5 mill next year while getting a young, starting caliber 2G is better than signing Morrow or Brewer to a 5-year/$30-40 million contract. Just my opinion, you may be happy to overpay like that.

Clearly you all are not keen on Henderson. I think he's going to be a very good player. Reminds me a lot of Rip Hamilton.

But if Wolves fans want to hold out hopes of landing a quality free agent in 2010, I understand. It's an alluring prospect. Just keep in mind the Chicago Bulls circa 2000. They were a young team, similar to where the Wolves are now. They hoarded their cap space in the hopes of signing Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan. They wound up with Ron Mercer and Brad Miller.

Also, Morrow or Ronnie Brewer at 6mil per over 5 years is a lot better than paying $9mil per over 2 years to obtain Gerald Henderson. Morrow and Brewer are still young and have proven they can play.

jgustav1 · Post #14 » by **jgustav1** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:53 pm

john2jer wrote:
pja123 wrote:Paying Jeffries $6 mill this year and $6.5 mill next year while getting a young, starting caliber 2G is better than signing Morrow or Brewer to a 5-year/$30-40 million contract. Just my opinion, you may be happy to overpay like that.

Clearly you all are not keen on Henderson. I think he's going to be a very good player. Reminds me a lot of Rip Hamilton.

But if Wolves fans want to hold out hopes of landing a quality free agent in 2010, I understand. It's an alluring prospect. Just keep in mind the Chicago Bulls circa 2000. They were a young team, similar to where the Wolves are now. They hoarded their cap space in the hopes of signing Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan. They wound up with Ron Mercer and Brad Miller.

Also, Morrow or Ronnie Brewer at 6mil per over 5 years is a lot better than paying $9mil per over 2 years to obtain Gerald Henderson. Morrow and Brewer are still young and have proven they can play.

Morrow or Brewer would be easily matched and retained by their current teams if a 5 year 30 million contract offer was made to either one.

john2jer · Post #15 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:27 pm

jgustav1 wrote:
john2jer wrote:
pja123 wrote:Paying Jeffries $6 mill this year and $6.5 mill next year while getting a young, starting caliber 2G is better than signing Morrow or Brewer to a 5-year/$30-40 million contract. Just my opinion, you may be happy to overpay like that.

Clearly you all are not keen on Henderson. I think he's going to be a very good player. Reminds me a lot of Rip Hamilton.

But if Wolves fans want to hold out hopes of landing a quality free agent in 2010, I understand. It's an alluring prospect. Just keep in mind the Chicago Bulls circa 2000. They were a young team, similar to where the Wolves are now. They hoarded their cap space in the hopes of signing Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan. They wound up with Ron Mercer and Brad Miller.

Also, Morrow or Ronnie Brewer at 6mil per over 5 years is a lot better than paying $9mil per over 2 years to obtain Gerald Henderson. Morrow and Brewer are still young and have proven they can play.

Morrow or Brewer would be easily matched and retained by their current teams if a 5 year 30 million contract offer was made to either one.

They may or may not be true, I'd probably lean towards your opinion on that, I only responded to the argument that pja presented.

john2jer · Post #16 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:35 pm

With the current economic climate, I can't see either being signed for more than 7mil per, though. That puts them at getting contracts double what Ramon Sessions got.

jgustav1 · Post #17 » by **jgustav1** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:56 pm

john2jer wrote:With the current economic climate, I can't see either being signed for more than 7mil per, though. That puts them at getting contracts double what Ramon Sessions got.

That may be true or some team could attempt to front load a contract offer for Morrow like the Milsap contract that the Jazz matched. The Jazz look to be in good shape, they have some fairly big expirings including Boozer and they may be able to fill the PF spot through the draft with Knicks unrestricted pick. I don't see why Minnesota would consider adding Henderson if it costs Jeffries contract since there are a number of SG/SF options in the lottery.

john2jer · Post #18 » by **john2jer** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:24 pm

jgustav1 wrote:
john2jer wrote:With the current economic climate, I can't see either being signed for more than 7mil per, though. That puts them at getting contracts double what Ramon Sessions got.

That may be true or some team could attempt to front load a contract offer for Morrow like the Milsap contract that the Jazz matched. The Jazz look to be in good shape, they have some fairly big expirings including Boozer and they may be able to fill the PF spot through the draft with Knicks unrestricted pick. I don't see why Minnesota would consider adding Henderson if it costs Jeffries contract since there are a number of SG/SF options in the lottery.

That's exactly my point. Henderson just isn't that good to have to take on Jeffries. A Henderson quality player can easily be found with one of the Wolves 3 picks this year, or with cap space, without having to take Jeffries.