Rip and Prince for Big Al and Ok4

[Norm2953]

I'm never a fan of these 3 team multi player deals and I've always wondered
about guys like Jefferson who in six NBA seasons has never played on a winning
team.

That's a lot of salary Detroit would be taking on and with a potential changes in
the CBA, I would think Detroit would not want to take on these new contracts
to go with BG, CV and potentially a new deal for Stuckey. If such a deal is
possible, I'd look to dumping BG or CV instead of Rip or Prince for at least
Rip and Prince have earned by their loyal play, a chance to go to better
situations for Detroit would have been better taking the Portland deals last
summer that involved JP.

If I were Detroit, I'd look to move high enough in he draft to get Aldrich. If it costs
them Daye or Jerekbo, that would be better than taking on too much salaries
when the LT threshold is falling.

[GopherIt!]

anyway, ill cut it down to,i may be in the minority,but i may do that trade, depending on who is available,and this is not knowing what other trades kahn may have available for big al

You are not in the minority. Big Al for Prince + #8-10 pick have been discussed in 3 or 4 other threads and no minny fan were against it.

Aldrich wouldn't be available Detroit would just draft him. The best center ~8-10 would probably be Whiteside.

I've only heard a couple people say they like it. IMO 8-10 is too low for Big Al. Too much risk for MN. Common sense says that if they trade a PF for a pick they do so to get a wing player (Wes Johnson?) or a true center (Aldrich), not for another PF, which is what BPA in the 8-10 range would probably net them. Plus, Cole is a local kid (he's actually related to a close friend of mine) and plays good defense. Adding a good defensive center with MN ties is appealing. Trading Al for another PF prospect is not.

If you guys are interested in Aldrich too then the best thing for the Wolves would probably be to talk trade with Golden State, Indiana or even New Jersey if they fall to the 4th pick.

[vege]

I'm never a fan of these 3 team multi player deals and I've always wondered
about guys like Jefferson who in six NBA seasons has never played on a winning
team.

That's a lot of salary Detroit would be taking on and with a potential changes in
the CBA, I would think Detroit would not want to take on these new contracts
to go with BG, CV and potentially a new deal for Stuckey. If such a deal is
possible, I'd look to dumping BG or CV instead of Rip or Prince for at least
Rip and Prince have earned by their loyal play, a chance to go to better
situations for Detroit would have been better taking the Portland deals last
summer that involved JP.

If I were Detroit, I'd look to move high enough in he draft to get Aldrich. If it costs
them Daye or Jerekbo, that would be better than taking on too much salaries
when the LT threshold is falling.

Detroit is not really taking that much salary. They are dumping Rip and Max in order to get Okafor and they are saving long term salary here the long term salary they are taking is Big Al and would be 3 years and i think it's worth the risk.

As for dump BG and CV, it's not going to happen. BG was looking like an all star pre injury and he seems perfect to play next to Stuckey. Add 2 solid big and that team would be dangerous. CV yeah i would love to dump him but i don't want to pay the price.

As for moving up in the draft, there is nothing in this world that would make me give up Jerebko. He was just the rookie of the month in the east, the kid play with his hearth, is a fan favorite and is not going anywhere. He is the guy who made Prince expendable.

I've only heard a couple people say they like it. IMO 8-10 is too low for Big Al. Too much risk for MN. Common sense says that if they trade a PF for a pick they do so to get a wing player (Wes Johnson?) or a true center (Aldrich), not for another PF, which is what BPA in the 8-10 range would probably net them. Plus, Cole is a local kid (he's actually related to a close friend of mine) and plays good defense. Adding a good defensive center with MN ties is appealing. Trading Al for another PF prospect is not.

If you guys are interested in Aldrich too then the best thing for the Wolves would probably be to talk trade with Golden State, Indiana or even New Jersey if they fall to the 4th pick.

In this thread yes, only a couple of ppl said they like it, but i am not talking about this thread, like i said this trade have been discussed before and both sides are ok with it.

Al Jefferson and his contract + injury concerns are not going to land you Aldrich or any of the top 6 players in this draft, stop dreaming. Detroit or any other team would take their chances on a rookie especially because of the new CBA. Prince and a top 10 pick is a VERY good value for Al Jefferson, nobody but you said different, so you got to admit you are wrong here when Minny fanbase, Detroit fanbase and neutral fanbase all have a different view of it. It's very unlikely that you are the only guy right about it

Neither side would be very excited about Big Al trade, but both sides admit if this deal was on the table, it's something they would strongly consider.

[coolness]

Big Al and Okafor are nice, but they could end up disappointing. Big Al by not getting awesome/complete/healthy and Okafor by being merely above average.

I still say that Tay, Daye and #1 are "untouchable." They are the 3 best contracts on the team, and all 3 will probably be good players simultaneously very soon.

[coolness]

If I were Detroit, I'd look to move high enough in he draft to get Aldrich. If it costs them Daye or Jerekbo, that would be better than taking on too much salaries
when the LT threshold is falling.

Our lotto pick and one of Daye or Jerebko for another lotto pick that is Cole Aldrich?

No.

A case could be made that Daye and Jerebko would both be mid-to-late lotto picks in this draft.
That's too much to give up for somebody who is very likely to be picked 6th-10th.

[Leto]

I think the value is close. Im not sure Minny wants Prince, however. His value is overstated here. He's 30 y.o., averaging 11 ppg (45% FG;30% from 3), 5 rebs and 3 asts. in 34 mins. That's not "good". That's pedestrian, at best. Having said that, he will be an expiring next season--which means the trade is essentially Big Al for Detroit's lotto pick. That's probably a "no" unless Kahn really wants to dump him.

[horaceworthy]

Ah my bad, I thought you thought Peja had another year.

Nope ask Minny fans if they would trade Big Al for Peja and Detroit's pick. The answer is no there is a reason why NOH fans said they want a Prince for Peja swap and the reason is not their contract.

Prince's value to Minny would be as an expiring contract. The pick would be the main reason they'd make the deal. Swapping one expiring for another wouldn't change the answer from yes to no. Prince is a little more appealing because his defensive reputation may enable the Wolves to flip him to a playoff contender seeking to upgrade it's perimeter D for something down the road and he's paid less.

[vege]

The Prince's value would be an expiring contract is bull. Minny need a winger badly and Prince have always being a lot better than his numbers, let alone in a year where he got injured.

If you guys want to talk about Prince numbers we can go to Al Jefferson numbers, there is a big topic discussing it already. bull

Prince does have value, especially for a team like Minny. The trade is Prince + a lotto pick for Al Jefferson, don't try to make it look worse than what it is in reality.

[the_bruce]

]
Prince's value to Minny would be as an expiring contract. The pick would be the main reason they'd make the deal. Swapping one expiring for another wouldn't change the answer from yes to no. Prince is a little more appealing because his defensive reputation may enable the Wolves to flip him to a playoff contender seeking to upgrade it's perimeter D for something down the road and he's paid less.

Horace is correct. Prince is not swaying MN into saying yes, he has no value here. The contract coming back could be a wash out like Vlad + whatever. It wouldn't really matter. In fact Prince's only value will now be seen as an expiring to any team next season. Sure he could provide some value down the road by flipping him to a playoff team, but for MN the motivation to trade Al is not to gain more assets. It's to get a better long term fit. I certainly don't think that whomever is drafted 6-10 will be better than Al, but they might be a better fit next to Love and/or in the triangle/fast paced offense MN is implementing.

[horaceworthy]

The Prince's value would be an expiring contract is bull. Minny need a winger badly and Prince have always being a lot better than his numbers, let alone in a year where he got injured.

If you guys want to talk about Prince numbers we can go to Al Jefferson numbers, there is a big topic discussing it already. bull

Prince does have value, especially for a team like Minny. The trade is Prince + a lotto pick for Al Jefferson, don't try to make it look worse than what it is in reality.

I'm not ragging on Prince as a player, just stating what his appeal to Minny would be (other teams may view him differently). It doesn't have anything to do with his numbers this year (it's really only his 3FG% and FT% that's down, most of his rate stats are right in line with what can be expected from him).

Prince would not provide a long term solution at the wing for the Wolves. They're far more likely to find that through the draft and/or use of their cap space in FA or trade. It's unlikely Prince would be retained after the end of the season, if he weren't dealt before then.

It might be a different story if Minny had a chance to be in playoff contention next year and had more use for a veteran wing presence, but that isn't the case. Thus, Prince's value to Minny is as an expiring. That doesn't make the trade look better or worse, it's just the way it looks from a Minny standpoint.

[C.lupus]

The Prince's value would be an expiring contract is bull. Minny need a winger badly and Prince have always being a lot better than his numbers, let alone in a year where he got injured.

If you guys want to talk about Prince numbers we can go to Al Jefferson numbers, there is a big topic discussing it already. bull

Prince does have value, especially for a team like Minny. The trade is Prince + a lotto pick for Al Jefferson, don't try to make it look worse than what it is in reality.

Yes, Minny needs a winger badly but they also have a high draft pick and $10-13 million in cap space to get a couple wing players. They don't HAVE to take Prince in the offseason just because they have a huge hole this season.

[vege]

I'm not ragging on Prince as a player, just stating what his appeal to Minny would be (other teams may view him differently). It doesn't have anything to do with his numbers this year (it's really only his 3FG% and FT% that's down, most of his rate stats are right in line with what can be expected from him).

Prince would not provide a long term solution at the wing for the Wolves. They're far more likely to find that through the draft and/or use of their cap space in FA or trade. It's unlikely Prince would be retained after the end of the season, if he weren't dealt before then.

It might be a different story if Minny had a chance to be in playoff contention next year and had more use for a veteran wing presence, but that isn't the case. Thus, Prince's value to Minny is as an expiring. That doesn't make the trade look better or worse, it's just the way it looks from a Minny standpoint.

Oh well i think different, but that's ok. I think a high character veteran like Prince would help a young team like Minny a lot, especially a team who desperately need a winger, he would fit like a glove in Minny and would bring a lot to the team, he is worth a lot more than just expirings for Minny and that's my opinion.

If he was just a expiring i would do the whole trade different. I would draft the player Minny want with the pick, would include Wilcox expiring and would do a s&t with Bynum giving him a contract big enough to make the trade work (5-6 million probably). Giving Minny more cap space and 2 small expirings.

[Norm2953]

I've seen the Blazers pound the Wolves four times this season and I don't
know if Prince would make much of a difference on such a rebuilding team.

I just see Detroit (who is one of favorite teams) taking on a lot of guys like
Jefferson who has never played on .500 team in six seasons as making another
mistake if they did so. If you need to add a big, add a character big and show
loyalty to guys like Rip and Tay who were part of your championship team by
moving them to better situations than another rebuilding team.

Detroit however is in desperate need for a big and it would seem to me that Cole
Aldrich is likely to develop into the journey man type of big that all teams seem
to need. If the cost is not too much to move up 3-4 spots to get him, that would
better than taking on more salaries when the concerns over the new CBA are
factored in.

[shrink]

I just see Detroit (who is one of favorite teams) taking on a lot of guys like
Jefferson who has never played on .500 team in six seasons as making another
mistake if they did so.

Jefferson's rookie season he played on the 45-37 Celtics. He then played in seven play-off games, averaging 6.4 RPG, 6.1 PPG in 19.3 mpg.

[shrink]

BTW, you stuck Chris Wilcox in the original deal for MIN, and that would be a no no, costing them $3 mil in raw cap space.

The deal MIN was, at best, lukewarm about was Prince + #8-10 for Jefferson .. no Wilcox.

Lastly, I agree with the other posters, that MIN isn't aching to get Prince as any more than an expiring. If you feel he has value (maybe to a championship team), you should deal him there, and send MIN the unproductive expiring and change.

[Norm2953]

I just see Detroit (who is one of favorite teams) taking on a lot of guys like
Jefferson who has never played on .500 team in six seasons as making another
mistake if they did so.

Jefferson's rookie season he played on the 45-37 Celtics. He then played in seven play-off games, averaging 6.4 RPG, 6.1 PPG in 19.3 mpg.

Oops I forgot about his rookie season but I seem to remember him being a disappointment
with the Celtics which is the reason they dealt him to the Wolves for KG.

I just think a team like Detroit would be making a mistake if they took on Okafor and Jefferson's
contract to go with CV, BG and a potential new contract for Stuckey. If they did just the
Prince + 8-10 deal, that would be better but they'd still be stuck paying for five L/T contracts
unless they decided to not offer Stuckey an extension.

[vege]

BTW, you stuck Chris Wilcox in the original deal for MIN, and that would be a no no, costing them $3 mil in raw cap space.

The deal MIN was, at best, lukewarm about was Prince + #8-10 for Jefferson .. no Wilcox.

Lastly, I agree with the other posters, that MIN isn't aching to get Prince as any more than an expiring. If you feel he has value (maybe to a championship team), you should deal him there, and send MIN the unproductive expiring and change.

Yeah i will see if i can think about something because Prince will definitely have value next season as a veteran productive expiring. Later today or tomorrow i will post i new thread, i had a nice idea including Portland instead of NOH.

[old rem]

Wolves obviously reject. Prince had a weak year. He's not gonna be around long,if he does bounce back.

N.Orl can't try playing with no C. If they slide too far, Paul wants out,and then they are screwed.

Looks like this got edited since the early responses....but this current version won't fly. It's not a solid $ dump for the Hornets,is a killer

[vege]

Wolves obviously reject. Prince had a weak year. He's not gonna be around long,if he does bounce back.

N.Orl can't try playing with no C. If they slide too far, Paul wants out,and then they are screwed.

Looks like this got edited since the early responses....but this current version won't fly. It's not a solid $ dump for the Hornets,is a killer

Prince have been playing really good lately so your argument is outdated and unnecessary.

And no the trade haven't been edited since the early responses. You are wrong again. And yes it is a very solid $ dump for Hornets, do the math before you comment.

[GopherIt!]

Al Jefferson and his contract + injury concerns are not going to land you Aldrich or any of the top 6 players in this draft, stop dreaming.

Other than Wall & Turner, I say we have a shot at anyone. Again, for the millionth time Al is almost recovered from last years surgery and there is no injury concern. He has missed, zero games this year due to injury. We wouldn't trade Al for another PF like Favors, a potential headcase in Cousins or the underachieving Davis. I could see a team preferring Aldrich for the same reasons we prefer him but not the other guys.

Prince and a top 10 pick is a VERY good value for Al Jefferson, nobody but you said different, so you got to admit you are wrong here when Minny fanbase, Detroit fanbase and neutral fanbase all have a different view of it. It's very unlikely that you are the only guy right about it

you haven't been to our board in a while have you? a lot of the guys are not crazy about that idea.
I haven't seen that many "neutral" fans say it's a good value. Big Al is a 20-10 man, who has that kind of future at pick #10? The chances of a player picked that low being as good as Al are aren't all that great. Shrink used to make lists of players drafted in each slot and there are way more of misses than hits once you get to that slot.