Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #1681 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Fri May 17, 2024 4:45 am

marson · Post #1682 » by **marson** » Fri May 17, 2024 4:52 am

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:

Read on Twitter

0:24 Wow you could see Joel Anthony's feet in defense is in Bam's level. 0 offensive skills though.

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #1683 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Fri May 17, 2024 5:12 am

marson wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:

Read on Twitter

0:24 Wow you could see Joel Anthony's feet in defense is in Bam's level. 0 offensive skills though.

Post #1684 » by **Wiltside** » Fri May 17, 2024 5:27 am

Damn, Mama Gayle sounding awfully like Joe Cronin smh

Post #1685 » by **Wiltside** » Fri May 17, 2024 5:28 am

If Trae’s market is depressed and it costs us Herro/Rozier and change, despite my misgivings and general Trae dislike, even I have to acknowledge that’s a no brainer.

Daffy · Post #1686 » by **Daffy** » Fri May 17, 2024 5:35 am

Don't look too deep into Mitchell’s comments about being happy in Cleveland. That's just in reference to people saying he's not happy with some of the players and staff. I'm not saying he wants to leave or wants to stay but that statement is directly aimed at those rumors of him being upset with people in Cleveland. This is also pointed out in that "cap" tweet.

RexBoyWonder · Post #1687 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Fri May 17, 2024 6:47 am

If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

VaDe255 · Post #1688 » by **VaDe255** » Fri May 17, 2024 7:47 am

RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

For me they are one of the most unattractive teams out there; force turnouvers, grind out games by winning the FT battle.
I would enjoy a smoothly run offense a lot more compared to what they are doing now and Trae is certainly an exciting player to watch.

Looking at the advanced stats of Trae/Mitchell, Trae is the better offensive talent mainly because he is such a good playmaker. Mitchell is the better defender. Their impact is very similiar and out of the two, Trae's 21/22 season might be the best individual season either of them had. Also Trae does hustle, he drew 12 charges this season to Mitchell's 0, so there might be some will there to play defense, but of course with physical limitations.

To me Bam/Trae or Bam/Mitchell both works about the same and it is difficult to choose, Trae's playmaking vs Mitchells defense is what it comes down to.

If you can get either of them and have to trade Jimmy in the process I'd do it. It gives them a larger window to win it all.

contract · Post #1689 » by **contract** » Fri May 17, 2024 10:15 am

RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

You've been a fan long enough to know that's not going to happen.

IceColdCubano · Post #1690 » by **IceColdCubano** » Fri May 17, 2024 11:22 am

Rapaz wrote:You have no assets for Durant
No assets for Lillard
No assets for Trae
Mitchell is staying in Cleveland

All your roads lead back to Mama Gayle and her Golden Ticket.

BRING ME ALL YOUR ASSETS.*

BRING ME JOVIC.

BRING ME JAQUEZ.

BRING ME ROZIER.

BRING THEM TO ME.

*Don’t you dare bring me Tyler Herro

It's friday dude, why you making me despise you.... :lol:

Post #1691 » by **MettaWorldPanda** » Fri May 17, 2024 11:38 am

If there’s a path that the Hawks simply want a few contracts that end sooner while getting a few young assets then Rozier, Duncan, Jovic, and 2029 1st could be possible. Based off Riley’s presser about depth i don’t think he even does this for Trae.

Johnny Fontane · Post #1692 » by **Johnny Fontane** » Fri May 17, 2024 12:48 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

This rings true, but because we handcuffed ourselves in dumping Okpala we have to finish better than pick 15 next season

Team is a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place currently

Johnny Fontane · Post #1693 » by **Johnny Fontane** » Fri May 17, 2024 12:55 pm

Heat have done right by not unloading the clip on some marginally better players than what we got and they won’t do so on Ingram or Trey. Jaquez and Jovic without picks could be a possibility but downside you lose two young pieces on team friendly contracts leaving zero depth

Post #1694 » by **MettaWorldPanda** » Fri May 17, 2024 1:09 pm

Johnny Fontane wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

This rings true, but because we handcuffed ourselves in dumping Okpala we have to finish better than pick 15 next season

Team is a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place currently

Future pick outlook

2024- 15th pick and 43rd (Pick 15 can't be traded until after selected) Highly doubtful we trade it due to cap space situation. Need cheap young talent to continue to develop

2025- OKC top 15 protected(Needs to be paid out or it rolls into unprotected in 2026)

2026- Unprotected to OKC if not conveyed in 2025 (Causes Hornets top 20 protected pick in 2027 to rollover to 2028 unprotected)

2027-Hornets top 20 protected pick (Rolls over to 2028 unprotected if Heat don't pay out OKC in 2025)

2028- Unprotected to Hornets(If Heat do not convey pick to OKC in 2025)

2029- Can be traded but with protections that allow for roll over into 2030

2030- Pick is free to be traded but if 2029 is traded has potential to be locked up to unprotected

2031- Could be locked up due to Stepien rules if 2029 is traded

Rock and a hard place is putting it nicely. Once again we have very little shot at competing in the whale market.

greg4012 · Post #1695 » by **greg4012** » Fri May 17, 2024 1:40 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

Adding a player that legitimately can lead the league in scoring and/or assists any given season and can make the opponent sweat pulling up from virtually anywhere on the court? Yea I wouldn't mind watching that. The defense would give me heart burn tho.

To me, wanting to blow it up and rebuild is inherently a reflection of how one feels about Bam. Is he worth building around to compete in his window or not?

I believe he is.

It's also quite literally like a 4+ year punt on competitive basketball, and as many have pointed out, the current situation with the 2025 pick being top 15 protected means that not being competitive this coming season delays the window of rebuild an additional year.

Post #1696 » by **MettaWorldPanda** » Fri May 17, 2024 2:03 pm

Could be an opening to try and get Vucevic and Caruso from the Bulls for Herro. Bulls with the 11th pick could go Center. Possibly Edey or Ware. Just a thought. Vucevic and Bam could be a win now interesting pairing going into next year.

Rapaz · Post #1697 » by **Rapaz** » Fri May 17, 2024 2:08 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
Spoiler:
Rapaz wrote:You have no assets for Durant
No assets for Lillard
No assets for Trae
Mitchell is staying in Cleveland

All your roads lead back to Mama Gayle and her Golden Ticket.

BRING ME ALL YOUR ASSETS.*

BRING ME JOVIC.

BRING ME JAQUEZ.

BRING ME ROZIER.

BRING THEM TO ME.

*Don’t you dare bring me Tyler Herro

It's friday dude, why you making me despise you....

Son, you’re fortunate that Mama Gayle is even engaging in discussions with your destitute franchise. The esteemed Monsieur Cronin was right to ignore your calls.

I’m all you’ve got and you know it.

(Excuse the solecisms; my illiterate assistant made the sign.)

Beenie · Post #1698 » by **Beenie** » Fri May 17, 2024 2:31 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

Nash’s Suns teams were fun to watch

Ran into a Tim Duncan buzzsaw unfortunately for them

A well constructed team around Trae could yield similar success imo

AirP. · Post #1699 » by **AirP.** » Fri May 17, 2024 3:02 pm

I was wondering, with technology and health information advances, are players able to score better now in older ages than in previous years/eras. It does seem that the NBA is seeing older players able to score more at ages they didn't before.

So, before this last season, the maximum number of players at age 34 or older scoring 20 ppg was 3 which happened 3 times, in 1998, 2003 and last season 2023. This year, that number has went up to twice that to 6.

So, by year, it's usually been 0 or 1 (years not shown were 0).

Spoiler:

Here's those players who average 20ppg at age 34 or older and only one of them had a great NetRating which is a great number to look at when looking at non-roleplayers. NetRating is from the calculated ORTG-DRTG which tries to extract what that player is bringing to each side of the court per 100 possessions, not just the raw numbers what the team does on the court when that particular player is on the court.

Code: Select all

+----------------+---+--------+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+---+-----+----+----+---------+
|Player          |Age|Position|Team|Games|MPG |TSPCT|FGA |PPG |PP36|APG|RPG|3pt% |ORTG|DRTG|NetRating|
+----------------+---+--------+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+---+-----+----+----+---------+
|Stephen Curry   |35 |PG      |74  |74   |32.7|0.616|19.5|26.4|29.1|5.1|4.5|0.408|119 |117 |2        |
|LeBron James    |39 |PF      |71  |71   |35.3|0.63 |17.9|25.7|26.2|8.3|7.3|0.41 |120 |114 |6        |
|Kevin Durant    |35 |PF      |75  |75   |37.2|0.626|19.1|27.1|26.2|5  |6.6|0.413|118 |114 |4        |
|DeMar DeRozan   |34 |SF      |79  |79   |37.8|0.584|17.2|24  |22.8|5.3|4.3|0.333|122 |118 |4        |
|Bojan Bogdanović|34 |PF      |28  |28   |32.9|0.6  |15.2|20.2|22.1|2.5|3.4|0.415|110 |121 |-11      |
|Jimmy Butler    |34 |PF      |60  |60   |34  |0.626|13.2|20.8|22  |5  |5.3|0.414|129 |113 |16       |
+----------------+---+--------+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+----+---+---+-----+----+----+---------+

carnageta · Post #1700 » by **carnageta** » Fri May 17, 2024 3:04 pm

Beenie wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:If our best options are Trey Young/Brandon Ingram types, I really do wonder if we're not better off rebuilding.

Go full kids empowerment, draft at 15#, get a high pick this upcoming year, sell off everyone but Jovic/Jamie/Bam/This year's pick.

Start young and fresh, clean books.

Just having an hard time justifying going all in for Trey young. Like...what's the end goal there?
Are we winning big in the playoffs with him?
Will you enjoy that style of basketball?

Nash’s Suns teams were fun to watch

Ran into a Tim Duncan buzzsaw unfortunately for them

A well constructed team around Trae could yield similar success imo

Nash's Suns ousted Timmy D and the Spurs on numerous occasions. It was truly the Wild West from the mid-late 2000s. The year they did get past the Spurs, they ran into the Kobe/Gasol Lakers.