Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I know a lot of folks in here like Jovic and of course I also see a long term vision with him but for some reason I don't think Spo shares those same feelings. Something tells me he was forced to play him a little more then he liked this year and it was pretty telling during the Boston series that he was just not happy with his play. Would not shock me one bit to see him dealt this offseason as a carrot to make a deal work. I could see a complete collapse in here when it happens. Something along the lines of Winslow dealt to the Grizzlies type of emotional outburst lol

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[Pokuokic]

Could the GSW be a team that might try get Herro if they don't resign Klay and have him in the Jordan Poole role? Maybe a Wiggins for Herro deal? Kuminga is their starting SF probably next year.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I really dislike players with significant physical limitations. That's the one thing we can't improve.

Ingram has all the tools, he just need to sharpen them.

Sadly, even now that Ingram's stock is down, There's still no chance we get him for Herro. Sad truth.

Tyler limitation are more mental than physical (which he lacks also), when you have Tylers size/athletic ability level you have to be able to see the game 1 step ahead to be a good player in the NBA, he can't he's low IQ and plays very primitive score first basketball with a basic level of dribbling by NBA standards. The skills/IQ issue is far more concerning than his physical limitations. He's super soft as well like I have seen smaller players play way tougher D and actually compete.

My point was, I'd Pack Tyler's bags myself if he would net us Ingram. sadly he won't, his value has crushed. Ingram took a hit too, but he's still on a higher tier.

I don't envy the front office this off season. Really don't. they're paying for big past mistakes now.

I really think they're stuck in a position that is impossible to get out of. There's no visible path to improve this team significantly, or to bring an all star level player here.

Just don't see it.

Out of every scenario out there this makes the most sense. Heat friendly agent Jeff Schwartz who’s agent to both Herro and Ingram. Ingram heading into his free agent year and the Heat always do right by his clients if they perform. Think we got a perfect match here. Will it take Jovic(Schwartz client) or the 15th pick to get this over the top? Yes I do and think it will be more then enough regardless of the Herro short comings. Agents have a way of persuading these deals with front offices as to maintain good future relationships. Favors persay

[MettaWorldPanda]

Could the GSW be a team that might try get Herro if they don't resign Klay and have him in the Jordan Poole role? Maybe a Wiggins for Herro deal? Kuminga is their starting SF probably next year.

Nah they got Podz ready to take over

[twix2500]

Throwing Shat on the way just for hypotheicals discussion

A system reset, trading Butler and Herro to LA for Bron and fillers like Jalen Hood-Schifino. Makes mends with Bron and Klutch and draft his son in the second round. Allow Bron to play his last year with his son and his contract drops off. Heat gets a good playoff run with Bron, Bam. Jovic, Joquez, Duncan, Rozier and some young players, then Bron contract gives Heat cap relief to make moves. Gives the Heat some positive media. Lakers can make a run with Jimmy and Herro and the rest of their team how they decide to build it around AD.

[IceColdCubano]

Spoiler:

The Heat organization has to do a better job of building a team that can win during the regular season much like when we had PJ Tucker here. I think Butler will take things more seriously if he's surrounded by better players that he doesn't have to carry the load every night.

Maybe so and hopefully so but that’s just a massive red flag to me and he shouldn’t get a pass tbh. Better teammates or not he has to be better and he has to be more engaged. He missed 22 games this season and in several games he actually did play he was invisible. Had we snagged the 6th seed he doesn’t get hurt. Or hell even if he did we’d beat the Bucks without Giannis and potentially Dame and then possibly get Rozier back for round 2, maybe 2 for the latter part of round 2. If we’re 6th and he doesn’t get hurt we’re ECF bound at minimum.

I mean we’re talking beating the Wizards and grizzlies D team in Miami away from a much different postseason run than what we just had. As our best player and highest paid player by far we need more.

Jimmy is my 2nd favorite player in the league and 3rd favorite all time but if he wants a $20M a year raise while he tries even less and less as the years go on it’s a no for me. We already have a tough time building a legit roster as it is. Only way I’d be somewhat ok with it is if we landed a Mitchell or something this summer because he and Bam can get us HCA in the 1st round minimum without Jimmy. If not, it’s just a lost cause and another wasted season

Before one throws stones at Butler I would be throwing them at our front office and Spo. Its cute how Spo and players where saying Spo puts his team in a bad situation and is ok losing games in the belief it will make his players better and ready for the playoffs. Life hits you hard and we saw first hand how that arrogance was detrimental and a huge reason for our collapse. If Spo took the regular season seriously we have our playoff slot locked and then he can tinker all he wants. How many times do we look at games and think WTF is Spo doing with this rotation, is he trying to lose the game. Well that came back to destroy us this season. Again the problems here all come from the top and trickle down like urning hitting the coaching, the players etc. This all starts at the top.

We really need to take a step back here with the Jimmy situation, Jimmy is not taking games off because he somehow feels this Org is not giving him help or his upset or he feels like taking them off because hes a star and can do what he wants.

The answer is much simpler, hes body just cannot handle the stress of anything over 55 games. Jimmy butler is not getting younger or having less wear and tear moving forward disappearing its going to continue to compound. The reality is this even in the 55 games he will play he won't go all out either, he probably gives you a good 30-40 good games of normal Jimmy play, 10-15 of those games will be ramped down at 4th or 5th guy roster effort. Its the only way he can stay healthy enough to survive until the playoffs.

This year all his metrics went down significantly. Hes gotten blocked 5x more than previous seasons, his FG% is down, his Free throw rate is down, his overall general basic stats are down, biggest drop is his contested at the rim FG% is bottom in the NBA like really bad. Expecting Jimmy to improve moving forward outside of health is a tall task.

Another important tidbit here in Miami biggest most important games this year, Jimmy was one of our worst players and responsible for those loses as he tried to will us to wins, and because he cannot carry us anymore he failed and we lost those games. I remember me and Bammy were looking at that a couple months back and realized he was responsible for most of our most important game loses and didn't play in the games we actually won vs top tier competition. This is really telling folks, our supposedly best player was a detriment to us in our biggest games and when he was missing in action the team played better. Jimmy had 2-3 Big games from his standards this year, that's it, how many 1A stars are you not constantly seeing on ESPN with 30, 40, 50, 60 point games randomly throughout the year and for Jimmy is struggling to do that. His biggest weapon is getting free throws its how he can fill the stat sheet, getting slower, and losing Athletism is not going to help in that department which means his efficiency is going to drop significantly and what he used to do may only come here and there but not often enough to matter.

[RexBoyWonder]

Tyler limitation are more mental than physical (which he lacks also), when you have Tylers size/athletic ability level you have to be able to see the game 1 step ahead to be a good player in the NBA, he can't he's low IQ and plays very primitive score first basketball with a basic level of dribbling by NBA standards. The skills/IQ issue is far more concerning than his physical limitations. He's super soft as well like I have seen smaller players play way tougher D and actually compete.

My point was, I'd Pack Tyler's bags myself if he would net us Ingram. sadly he won't, his value has crushed. Ingram took a hit too, but he's still on a higher tier.

I don't envy the front office this off season. Really don't. they're paying for big past mistakes now.

I really think they're stuck in a position that is impossible to get out of. There's no visible path to improve this team significantly, or to bring an all star level player here.

Just don't see it.

Out of every scenario out there this makes the most sense. Heat friendly agent Jeff Schwartz who’s agent to both Herro and Ingram. Ingram heading into his free agent year and the Heat always do right by his clients if they perform. Think we got a perfect match here. Will it take Jovic(Schwartz client) or the 15th pick to get this over the top? Yes I do and think it will be more then enough regardless of the Herro short comings. Agents have a way of persuading these deals with front offices as to maintain good future relationships. Favors persay

Herro + #15 (or Jovic)
For
Ingram

I'd like to see Pelicans fans view on this. I'm desperate enough to do it myself.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[AirP.]

I mean you’re comparing the greatest player we’ve ever seen to someone who doesn’t try in the regular season. Like looking into it even more has made me frustrated with Jimmy, ive been ok with the coasting as long as he shows up and shows up big in the playoffs, this year he didn’t and we wasted the entire year if we’re being honest.

KD at 35: 27-7-5 on elite efficiency and missed only 7 games.

Lebron at 39: 26-7-8 on even higher efficient than KD while missing 11 games.

Steph at 36: 26-5-5 on elite efficiency while missing 8 games.

These are all time greats, multiple times MVPs who have several championships between the 3 giving far more effort than Jimmy over the course of the year. Guys who honestly have nothing left to prove outside maybe KD who can’t win without a crazy superteam so why are we ok with Jimmy eating up half the cap and potentially $70M a year as he tries less and less as the seasons go on?

He needs to take this serious and stop putting us in bad positions because like this season there’s no guarantee we’ll be in good enough health to get out of them

The Heat organization has to do a better job of building a team that can win during the regular season much like when we had PJ Tucker here. I think Butler will take things more seriously if he's surrounded by better players that he doesn't have to carry the load every night.

MWP Jimmy will be 35, he is at the age where he has to reserve his body. And he tried this season and his body fell apart. You and the Heat have to accept that Jimmy is at the stage of his life that his body is not dependable, which we witness with Wade and Goran. The Heat simply cant build for Jimmy any longer. Can he remain on the team, yes, but the build cant be to compliment him any more.

I completely get you on age and on having to reserve his body but currently this is where Jaquez Jr comes into play, although he'll probably never be as good as Butler he can do a lot of things Butler can do offensively so as Butler's career winds down from part time superstar, to star/high level role-player, Jaquez should be able to start taking some of Butler's role although they'll be on the court together a bunch the next couple of years.

On you can't build around Butler anymore, there is nobody on the roster outside of a part time superstar Butler that is good enough to build around so I suspect they will continue to do so until a new #1 is acquired or if either Jaquez Jr or Jovic show enough to consider building around them. I don't believe Bam is or will be good enough to build around offensively, he's incredible on offense but probably just a #2 or #3 on a high-level team.

[MettaWorldPanda]

My point was, I'd Pack Tyler's bags myself if he would net us Ingram. sadly he won't, his value has crushed. Ingram took a hit too, but he's still on a higher tier.

I don't envy the front office this off season. Really don't. they're paying for big past mistakes now.

I really think they're stuck in a position that is impossible to get out of. There's no visible path to improve this team significantly, or to bring an all star level player here.

Just don't see it.

Out of every scenario out there this makes the most sense. Heat friendly agent Jeff Schwartz who’s agent to both Herro and Ingram. Ingram heading into his free agent year and the Heat always do right by his clients if they perform. Think we got a perfect match here. Will it take Jovic(Schwartz client) or the 15th pick to get this over the top? Yes I do and think it will be more then enough regardless of the Herro short comings. Agents have a way of persuading these deals with front offices as to maintain good future relationships. Favors persay

Herro + #15 (or Jovic)
For
Ingram

I'd like to see Pelicans fans view on this. I'm desperate enough to do it myself.

That would be the basis of the deal. Nance Jr and Robinson would be included as well.

Breakdown would be

Herro 29 mil
Robinson 19.4 mil
Jovic 2.4 mil or 15th pick(5 million) *Team saves more trading pick

Total with Jovic 50.8 million total without 48.4

Ingram 36 million
Nance Jr 11.2 million

Total 47.2 million

Heat will have a potential to save some money in this deal off the cap this year.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Caleb didn’t do himself any favors this season and especially in the playoffs. Teams also looking at massive drop offs from Gabe and Strus and may steer clear of anther Heat project, he might have to opt in.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We’re sending Terry Duncan a 1st and Jovic to the Cavs for Mitchell and Wade, Herro and Martin after he opts in are being sent to the pelicans with a 1st for Ingram.

Mitchell
JJJ
Jimmy
Ingram
Bam

Stay tun3d.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Caleb didn’t do himself any favors this season and especially in the playoffs. Teams also looking at massive drop offs from Gabe and Strus and may steer clear of anther Heat project, he might have to opt in.

He has to decide before free agency about opting in or not and as of right now reports are floating about him getting potential mid level offers. I don't think he'll opt in as he can probably get the same amount he's making now from any other team in desperate need for a veteran like him with playoff experience.

[MHeat0279]

There is only one move that allows us to stay on target for the 2026 timeline, preserving Jamie, Jovic, and Bam

That is the return of LeBron James to Miami


Herro, Robinson, and this years 1st round pick in a sign and trade taking Bronny at 43

Rozier
Butler
James
Jovic
Bam
Jamie

Vet ring chasers liked a Crowder, Love and Pat Bev

This would be option 1 for me if I were Riley, and I’m pulling out all the stops for it. LeBron is a free agent we will get a meeting. It hasn’t made sense for the two to re approach since he left in truth, but the short term goals here are aligned, and an opportunity to win one is available for Riley and LeBron to ride one more out, before turning it over to the next generation.

As far as Bronny is concerned I couldn’t think of a better place for him to develop, and I do think he has skills that could be molded into a Heat type guy. He can be a scrappy defensive guard with a 3 point shot, won’t ever be a star I don’t think but Miami has taken worse talent and helped them stick in this league.

There might be a very slight chance if Pat was coaching, but there is no way he is coming to play for SPO, he doesnt respect Spo.

[IceColdCubano]

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This is ridiculous when I heard this last night, basically saying he can still be successful if they had not landed on the Boston side of the Bracket. Firstly yall didn't deserve to, if your not using the injury excuse you cannot use the Boston Bracket excuse either. Go fcking fly a kite and sell that bridge somewhere else. You may have had a chance against Orlando/Cleveland/Indiana/Milwaukee in the first round sure we can play that what if game, but were just adding more false narratives about the team, this garbage product making it to the ECF again is just another excuse for the FO not to upgrade the way they need to.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

There is only one move that allows us to stay on target for the 2026 timeline, preserving Jamie, Jovic, and Bam

That is the return of LeBron James to Miami


Herro, Robinson, and this years 1st round pick in a sign and trade taking Bronny at 43

Rozier
Butler
James
Jovic
Bam
Jamie

Vet ring chasers liked a Crowder, Love and Pat Bev

This would be option 1 for me if I were Riley, and I’m pulling out all the stops for it. LeBron is a free agent we will get a meeting. It hasn’t made sense for the two to re approach since he left in truth, but the short term goals here are aligned, and an opportunity to win one is available for Riley and LeBron to ride one more out, before turning it over to the next generation.

As far as Bronny is concerned I couldn’t think of a better place for him to develop, and I do think he has skills that could be molded into a Heat type guy. He can be a scrappy defensive guard with a 3 point shot, won’t ever be a star I don’t think but Miami has taken worse talent and helped them stick in this league.

There might be a very slight chance if Pat was coaching, but there is no way he is coming to play for SPO, he doesnt respect Spo.

He does respect Spo, greatly.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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This is ridiculous when I heard this last night, basically saying he can still be successful if they had not landed on the Boston side of the Bracket. Firstly yall didn't deserve to, if your not using the injury excuse you cannot use the Boston Bracket excuse either. Go fcking fly a kite and sell that bridge somewhere else. You may have had a chance against Orlando/Cleveland/Indiana/Milwaukee in the first round sure we can play that what if game, but were just adding more false narratives about the team, this garbage product making it to the ECF again is just another excuse for the FO not to upgrade the way they need to.

Good point, maybe it was for the best that we failed every single chance we had to get good positioning the playoffs if it means change is coming

[MHeat0279]

There is only one move that allows us to stay on target for the 2026 timeline, preserving Jamie, Jovic, and Bam

That is the return of LeBron James to Miami


Herro, Robinson, and this years 1st round pick in a sign and trade taking Bronny at 43

Rozier
Butler
James
Jovic
Bam
Jamie

Vet ring chasers liked a Crowder, Love and Pat Bev

This would be option 1 for me if I were Riley, and I’m pulling out all the stops for it. LeBron is a free agent we will get a meeting. It hasn’t made sense for the two to re approach since he left in truth, but the short term goals here are aligned, and an opportunity to win one is available for Riley and LeBron to ride one more out, before turning it over to the next generation.

As far as Bronny is concerned I couldn’t think of a better place for him to develop, and I do think he has skills that could be molded into a Heat type guy. He can be a scrappy defensive guard with a 3 point shot, won’t ever be a star I don’t think but Miami has taken worse talent and helped them stick in this league.

There might be a very slight chance if Pat was coaching, but there is no way he is coming to play for SPO, he doesnt respect Spo.

He does respect Spo, greatly.

He purposely bumped SPO in one game, on top of that he wanted the guy fired. Lets put it this way, i respect your takes on Bam as much as Lebron respects SPO

[3ammy3uck3ts]

There might be a very slight chance if Pat was coaching, but there is no way he is coming to play for SPO, he doesnt respect Spo.

He does respect Spo, greatly.

He purposely bumped SPO in one game, on top of that he wanted the guy fired. Lets put it this way, i respect your takes on Bam as much as Lebron respects SPO

Oh so you’re just completely out of the loop and haven’t seen a single thing he’s said over the last decade then, I’m not surprised coming from you, you don’t know ball

[MHeat0279]

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Marks talks about the extension negotiations that will take place with Bam Adebayo and Jimmy Butler. He highlights that Jimmy Butler future is a thing to watch

Jimmy extension will be interesting. Contracts tend to be forward looking, a Jimmy extension if we’re being honest would be more about appreciation for what he’s done.

It's always going to be about Jimmy and Bam for the foreseeable future. We will ride with Jimmy well into his age 37-38 years. Pat has talked about how it's different now with the aging players how they take care of themselves and Jimmy is a fitness freak. If fans are giddy about bringing in a 40 year old Lebron then we should have no issues with dealing with a late 30's Jimmy.

Lebron has always been a freak of nature, i mean the guy barely gets injured even at his age, Jimmy on the other hand well you can see he misses more games every time. I think it will be a mistake to extend him for a high amount unless you have a difference maker coming next year to join him.