Off-Season Thread 16: Let's NOT Lewis!!

[MartyConlonJr]

I did the math on Bosh and Wade in games for the Heat without Bron:

Bosh:
Bosh over last 4 years: 23.2 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.8 spg 1.0 bpg on 48.2% FG, 45.2% 3PT 94.9% FT, W-L: 5-4
Bosh for last season: 23.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 0.7 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.0 bpg on 46.7% FG, 43.7% 3PT, 100% FT W-L: 2-1

Wade (now I'm going to go ahead and ignore the two games in which he played 2 and 18 minutes)
Wade over last 4 years: 20.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 0.6 spg, 1.6 bpg, on 44.9% FG, 30.8% 3PT, 59% FT W-L: 3-4
Wade for last season: 18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1. spg, 0.75 bpg, on 42.5% FG 0.0% 3PT, 76.9% FT W-L: 2-2

[BIRDMAN BIRDMAN]

Jason Lieser: Pat Riley said the Heat have spoken with Michael Beasley's people. "He's still a consideration, absolutely." Twitter @PBPjasonlieser

Still think the post-LeBron era now is the perfect time that we could actually use him in the bench with his scoring and familiarity despite some of people here are saying but ehhhhhh it's a broken record really, if we keep him cool, if he goes to somewhere like the Lakers then good for him, I just wish if he leaves it ain't to CLE or SA and we see him completely turning it around lmao that would suck

[Destructor]

Still feeling sad that LeBron isn't with us anymore

[DWadeno3]

Glad Riley is fired up.

Seriously doubt lebron misled anyone.

Just a lot of rumors flying everywhere.
Our franchise is hush, and I doubt lebron would tell us. I mean hell, when lebron and Kobe were jawing at each other during an Xmas game, lebron said "I asked him what he got for Xmas" when he was asked what they were saying.. -_-

We have two parties who are both hush about their businesses and rumors flying wild about what MIGHT have happened. That is why I'm not gonna bother getting worked up over this.

Just glad the guy helped bring us 2 rings and let's move on man. Focus on our present and future. Not past.

Do you think LeBron actually asked Kobe what he got for Christmas when they were talking trash on the court?

[HialeahHeatFan]

A year ago my thinking was Par riley would ride off into the sunset smoothly and tender full peace once wade,bosh,lebron had nothing left to give and it was time for a new era. Now i have this feeling in the pit of my stomach hes going to ride off like one of the horsemen of the apocalyps leaving death and distruction in the eastern conference with unsatisfying fury.

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[HialeahHeatFan]

A year ago my thinking was Pat riley would ride off into the sunset smoothly and tender full peace once wade,bosh,lebron had nothing left to give and it was time for a new era. Now i have this feeling in the pit of my stomach hes going to ride off like one of the horsemen of the apocalyps leaving death and distruction in the eastern conference with unsatisfying fury.

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[contract]

Riley needed someone to tell him

Denial is not just a river in Egypt

If he ain't replying to your messages he ain't coming back bro

Someone needs to get Pat a copy of "He's Just Not That Into You".

[Zasterror]

Riley being re-energized is a great sign for the Heat. I thought Pat was going to throw in the towel after this year or next and retire but it seems that LeBron hurt his pride and got him motivated again. I can't wait to see what he pulls off in 2016.

[HIF]

Don't disrespect the Don.

[Prince Ali]

Riley being re-energized is a great sign for the Heat. I thought Pat was going to throw in the towel after this year or next and retire but it seems that LeBron hurt his pride and got him motivated again. I can't wait to see what he pulls off in 2016.

I think we should forget about 2016 and what pie in the sky scenarios await then and focus on what we can do these next 2 years with Wade still as a number 1 guy

[Mr Loggins]

Riley needed someone to tell him

Denial is not just a river in Egypt

If he ain't replying to your messages he ain't coming back bro

Someone needs to get Pat a copy of "He's Just Not That Into You".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsit1k4nXc[/youtube]

[Tuff Gong]

No doubt in my mind that LeBron knew he was going back to Cleveland all along, and the meeting with Gilbert was just to ensure that Gilbert would apologize and kiss his ass to seal the deal. He didn't lead us on, but he didn't let us know that he was leaning the other way because he KNEW that Riley would piece together a team that would kick his team's ass.

Guy is a true beta. He was recruiting for the Cavs while putting the Heat on freeze mode. I like Deng, McBob, and Granger but we'd of done way better knowing LeBron wasn't coming back from the get go. He knows that too. All strategic.

[Dupas]

**** Lebeta

[Flash4thewin]

Jason Lieser: Pat Riley said the Heat have spoken with Michael Beasley's people. "He's still a consideration, absolutely." Twitter @PBPjasonlieser

Still think the post-LeBron era now is the perfect time that we could actually use him in the bench with his scoring and familiarity despite some of people here are saying but ehhhhhh it's a broken record really, if we keep him cool, if he goes to somewhere like the Lakers then good for him, I just wish if he leaves it ain't to CLE or SA and we see him completely turning it around lmao that would suck

Well it looks like many teams are very interested in Beasley including the Lakers. If Beasley wanted too im sure he could sign a contract but is waiting for a reason. After the Cavs make the inevitable Love trade they will need a scoring punch off the bench. The Cavs give him national exposure which will help for his next contract. The Lakers give him a starting position but will be a non playoff team most likely. I wouldnt be surprised if SA is interested, he would make them even more lethal. It all comes down to what team is a better fit for what Beasley wants this season

[MuggsyBogues]

No doubt in my mind that LeBron knew he was going back to Cleveland all along, and the meeting with Gilbert was just to ensure that Gilbert would apologize and kiss his ass to seal the deal. He didn't lead us on, but he didn't let us know that he was leaning the other way because he KNEW that Riley would piece together a team that would kick his team's ass.

Guy is a true beta. He was recruiting for the Cavs while putting the Heat on freeze mode. I like Deng, McBob, and Granger but we'd of done way better knowing LeBron wasn't coming back from the get go. He knows that too. All strategic.

Or not. Deng was one of the steals in this free agency, where people got overpaid left and right. McBob is a value signing as well, as long as he doesn't regress. Stretch 4s who can pass and play with energy get paid.

I think Riley did very well. I'm sure he would've liked to have more time, but would he be able to do something better with more time? I'm not so sure.

I've heard some dream scenarios like signing Melo, or signing Lowry+Gortat, or signing Bledsoe and Monroe, but none of those seem close to realistic for various reasons.

[Purch]

Beasley is like the exact opposite of the kind of player the Spurs bring on their roster. They want mature, good character individuals, not guys getting arrested on drug charges.

[ccameron]

What were Wade and Bosh's stats like last season without LeBron on the court?

Bosh with LeBron: 2744 minutes, 123 points per 100 possessions, 53.5 FG%, 61.7 TS%, per 36 minutes: 17.9 points, 7 rebounds, 1.2 assists
Bosh without LeBron: 477 minutes, 107 points per 100 possessions, 41.5 FG%, 48.9 TS%, per 36 minutes: 16 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.1 assists

Wade with: 1689 minutes, 110 points per 100 possessions, 53.9 FG%, 58.6 TS%, per 36 minutes: 17.7 points, 4.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists
Wade without: 778 minutes, 106 points per 100 possessions, 52.4 FG%, 57.1 TS%, per 36 minutes: 25.5 points, 4.5 rebounds, 5.6 assists

Thanks Muggsy. The difference in Wade's points per 36 min is crazy, didn't expect it to be that big, and still pretty efficient.

Bosh's stats worry me a bit, but I think the way we run plays will be better for him going forward.

[ccameron]

I did the math on Bosh and Wade in games for the Heat without Bron:

Bosh:
Bosh over last 4 years: 23.2 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.8 spg 1.0 bpg on 48.2% FG, 45.2% 3PT 94.9% FT, W-L: 5-4
Bosh for last season: 23.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 0.7 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.0 bpg on 46.7% FG, 43.7% 3PT, 100% FT W-L: 2-1

Wade (now I'm going to go ahead and ignore the two games in which he played 2 and 18 minutes)
Wade over last 4 years: 20.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 0.6 spg, 1.6 bpg, on 44.9% FG, 30.8% 3PT, 59% FT W-L: 3-4
Wade for last season: 18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1. spg, 0.75 bpg, on 42.5% FG 0.0% 3PT, 76.9% FT W-L: 2-2

Interesting. Although this doesn't take into account all the minutes played without Lebron by each player in all the other games. See what MuggsyBogues dug up, which I think is a more complete picture:

Bosh with LeBron: 2744 minutes, 123 points per 100 possessions, 53.5 FG%, 61.7 TS%, per 36 minutes: 17.9 points, 7 rebounds, 1.2 assists
Bosh without LeBron: 477 minutes, 107 points per 100 possessions, 41.5 FG%, 48.9 TS%, per 36 minutes: 16 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.1 assists

Wade with: 1689 minutes, 110 points per 100 possessions, 53.9 FG%, 58.6 TS%, per 36 minutes: 17.7 points, 4.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists
Wade without: 778 minutes, 106 points per 100 possessions, 52.4 FG%, 57.1 TS%, per 36 minutes: 25.5 points, 4.5 rebounds, 5.6 assists

[MIA]

Beasley is like the exact opposite of the kind of player the Spurs bring on their roster. They want mature, good character individuals, not guys getting arrested on drug charges.

Which is why they could bring him in. Surround him with professionals.

Did you see him getting in any trouble this yr involving DUI's or drugs? No. You know why? Our locker room is filled with professionals.

A good atmosphere can do wonders.

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[MuggsyBogues]

I did the math on Bosh and Wade in games for the Heat without Bron:

Bosh:
Bosh over last 4 years: 23.2 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.8 spg 1.0 bpg on 48.2% FG, 45.2% 3PT 94.9% FT, W-L: 5-4
Bosh for last season: 23.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 0.7 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.0 bpg on 46.7% FG, 43.7% 3PT, 100% FT W-L: 2-1

Wade (now I'm going to go ahead and ignore the two games in which he played 2 and 18 minutes)
Wade over last 4 years: 20.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 0.6 spg, 1.6 bpg, on 44.9% FG, 30.8% 3PT, 59% FT W-L: 3-4
Wade for last season: 18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1. spg, 0.75 bpg, on 42.5% FG 0.0% 3PT, 76.9% FT W-L: 2-2

Interesting. Although this doesn't take into account all the minutes played without Lebron by each player in all the other games. See what MuggsyBogues dug up, which I think is a more complete picture:

Bosh with LeBron: 2744 minutes, 123 points per 100 possessions, 53.5 FG%, 61.7 TS%, per 36 minutes: 17.9 points, 7 rebounds, 1.2 assists
Bosh without LeBron: 477 minutes, 107 points per 100 possessions, 41.5 FG%, 48.9 TS%, per 36 minutes: 16 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.1 assists

Wade with: 1689 minutes, 110 points per 100 possessions, 53.9 FG%, 58.6 TS%, per 36 minutes: 17.7 points, 4.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists
Wade without: 778 minutes, 106 points per 100 possessions, 52.4 FG%, 57.1 TS%, per 36 minutes: 25.5 points, 4.5 rebounds, 5.6 assists

I think it supports what you say, Bosh might benefit from a big consistent role. He played well in a limited role, and he played well in a primary role when he knew LeBron wouldn't play. But it looks like he utterly failed when he had to adjust to playing without LeBron mid-game. These numbers suggest that you can ask Bosh to be a great role player, or you can ask him to be the lead guy, and he will probably deliver, but he needs structure and clarity.

On the other hand, it looks like Wade is brilliant in that '6th man' role of being the main guy for a few minutes, but he didn't perform nearly as well when asked to be the main guy for a full game.

Anyway, of course, these are small sample sizes. Even if we are taking the last 4 years, that's just 7 full games without LeBron for Wade, and 9 for Bosh. That's like 250-300 minutes over 4 years. It's not the same as being the main guy game after game for a marathon of 82 games.

So we can't make reliable conclusions, but they are interesting numbers.