Shabazz Napier Watch

Maroko · Post #21 » by **Maroko** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:48 am

So when Chalmers was leading the NBA in steals last year at the start of the season will you say he was/is a good defender ? But but but he was cutting the lane...

And when he is post up, will it be against someone who has a terrible ballhandling? try do it against Wade : go ahead --> easy bucket

If you think he wont be a target on defense, you are fooling yourself, the guy can create his own shoot, good finisher in the paint but my concern is his defense and it's not like we will be that great on protecting the rim this year (ok it has always been the case but this season is gonna be worse)

cyclix · Post #22 » by **cyclix** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:25 am

DefenseWins wrote:
cyclix wrote:His DEF rating this preseason has been 111, which is 3rd worst among rookie PGs. He needs work on it most definitely, but we've played against great offensive teams in the preseason, so its all good. His OFF rating though is 120 which is very impressive considering he has a high USG (27.0). No rookie with as high an ORTG has nearly as much USG.

The numbers read as...

When Napier is on the court, the team allows 111 points per 100 possessions
When Napier is on the court, the team scores 120 points per 100 possessions

something like that

The Heat this preseason haven't been good defensively in terms of points allowed. If anything that number looks normal considering how the Heat's defense has been in preseason, it's a team/line up thing as well as Napier playing a lot with the 3rd stringers. Slot Machine makes a good point about Boozer. In 2012 Boozer had a DEF rating of 95 in regular season and playoffs LOL. All 4 guys around you impacts that number and in 2012 Chicago had like the best defense. For stats sake, LeBron (bare with me, he played good defense first 3 years) in 2012 on this team had a DEF rating of 97... Boozer better than LeBron that year defensively? hell naw

We'll see in the regular season, but I wouldn't put any weight on it and say he "sucks" defensively, cause this whole team's DEF rating is basically 115 or something lol.

But the thing is all of this data really doesn't mean anything much, as teams don't have their starters out there. Numbers are everywhere cause it's preseason. We just gotta wait til the regular season

Napie won' be playing against starters most o the time, so I think for him to hold his own against the reserves is more indicative of how effective he can be in the starting season. They tend to play harder than the starters at this time time anyway.

With the DRTG, it seems you. guys think I'm using the DTRG/ORTG as a be all-end all. Every stat is flawed to a degree, and it don't really rely on 1 stat.You see it in my posts when I list multiple stats of a player. It was just pointed out in 1 post. I also noted they were playing more offensive-savvy teams, so his defensive prowess in general and my judgement was reserved.

Dupas · Post #23 » by **Dupas** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:35 am

Maroko wrote:So when Chalmers was leading the NBA in steals last year at the start of the season will you say he was/is a good defender ? But but but he was cutting the lane...

And when he is post up, will it be against someone who has a terrible ballhandling? try do it against Wade : go ahead --> easy bucket

If you think he wont be a target on defense, you are fooling yourself, the guy can create his own shoot, good finisher in the paint but my concern is his defense and it's not like we will be that great on protecting the rim this year (ok it has always been the case but this season is gonna be worse)

Tony parker. Defense below average 5 times champion

RexBoyWonder · Post #24 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:54 am

Im not worried about Nappier's defense.

1)Defense is really not crucial for PG's.

2)He has 2 things going for him - he's pretty quick so he should be able to mostly stay in front of his man , and he seems to have a nack for steals. That's enough for him of the defensive side.

The issue is that we don't any defensive studs behind him, Bosh and Mcbob aren't great rim protectors and Bird is ageing and won't play big minutes. A great defensive big covers a ton of holes and issues.

Post #25 » by **KingDavid** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:59 am

I thought Napier's issue was shooting the ball...He seems to have turn the corner there thankfully. I thought his defense was always passable. He's a rookie, don't expect much there. Anyway, it's the preseason. We'll see how he does when it all matters. I wouldn't start him based on some good preseason games. Levels to this ****.

Post #26 » by **DefenseWins** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:26 pm

Again his defense isn't even bad. It is "passable" like KingDavid said. His defense gives no loss or no gain, so to speak, but there is no loss in what I've seen.

Napier's issue IS shooting the ball. He can take some bad shots, though last few games he hasn't really done that. At first he would just force shots up, and I hope he learns to not take bad shots.

This team as a whole needs to be more efficient shooting the ball. I think with due time that department should be fine.

Also looking back at the PG's who have kicked our butts in the Finals - Jason Kidd, JJ Barea, Tony Parker, Patty Mills. Are they guys known for defense (not prime Kidd obviously)? No but they got the job done. What's funny is the back up PGs, Barea and Mills really torched our asses. We couldn't even stop Mills with a rotation of Rio/Cole, nor could they atleast match up with him cause they sucked.

Sign5 · Post #27 » by **Sign5** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:37 pm

PG defense is extremely overstated, a lot of the top PGs are good at reading the passing lanes and making steals but aren't that good man-defense-wise. Even though they aren't good man defenders it doesn't affect the team's overall defense, basically a team's defense isn't reliant on guard D. we just need Napier to pick up 1-2 steals a game and direct the team on offense( which we all can see he's much better at doing than Chalmers/Rio).

To be honest it's not so much that Napier has elite talent but more so how terrible Chalmers and Cole are in feeling the game and being REAL POINT GUARDS. Chalmers is a complete bone-head with a low b-ball IQ and Cole has no feel, time after time again Cole will try and drive into 3 defenders or heavily traffic- paint and get blocked again and AGAIN. Cole has speed but isn't a good finisher and a mediocre shooter at best.

Napier from what I've seen has a nifty step-back jumper that he can use, has steadily been getting better from the 3pt line and knows how PENETRATE AND KICK OUT like every nba PG should be able to do (except Cole and Chalmers it seems).

cyclix · Post #28 » by **cyclix** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Sign5 wrote:PG defense is extremely overstated, a lot of the top PGs are good at reading the passing lanes and making steals but aren't that good man-defense-wise. Even though they aren't good man defenders it doesn't affect the team's overall defense, basically a team's defense isn't reliant on guard D. we just need Napier to pick up 1-2 steals a game and direct the team on offense( which we all can see he's much better at doing than Chalmers/Rio).

To be honest it's not so much that Napier has elite talent but more so how terrible Chalmers and Cole are in feeling the game and being REAL POINT GUARDS. Chalmers is a complete bone-head with a low b-ball IQ and Cole has no feel, time after time again Cole will try and drive into 3 defenders or heavily traffic- paint and get blocked again and AGAIN. Cole has speed but isn't a good finisher and a mediocre shooter at best.

Napier from what I've seen has a nifty step-back jumper that he can use, has steadily been getting better from the 3pt line and knows how PENETRATE AND KICK OUT like every nba PG should be able to do (except Cole and Chalmers it seems).

WOW. Best post I've seen from this thread. You, my friend, know your stuff.

shanedude · Post #29 » by **shanedude** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:51 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:Im not worried about Nappier's defense.

1)Defense is really not crucial for PG's.

2)He has 2 things going for him - he's pretty quick so he should be able to mostly stay in front of his man , and he seems to have a nack for steals. That's enough for him of the defensive side.

The issue is that we don't any defensive studs behind him, Bosh and Mcbob aren't great rim protectors and Bird is ageing and won't play big minutes. A great defensive big covers a ton of holes and issues.

It's Napier, bud. Noticed you misspelled his name a few times.

MasterIchiro · Post #30 » by **MasterIchiro** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:08 pm

UConn fan here - thanks for the thread - I'll keep an eye out for it throughout the season. I felt disappointed when the Hornets passed on him in favor of PJ Hairston. Bazz doesn't fit our needs but he's going to end up being one of the biggest steals of this draft. I don't see why he won't earn the starting job at some point this season. Enjoy him, he's fun to watch as many here saw in the NCAA Tournament.

Maroko · Post #31 » by **Maroko** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:10 pm

i cant stop laughing when i read the PG's defend is not a big deal...

The defense is like a pyramid when you beat the first step (the PG), you are inside and then you can do everything you want to score.
People were pointing out our lack of rim protection but it was more the consequence of our bad defense on the opponent PG !
Last year, if we had a younger version of Shane Battier to defend the wings, LeBron could have been in charge of Tony Parker, that series would have been completly different exactly like he did 2 years ago against Parker and 4 years ago on Rose etc...

To me our biggest problem was our PG and Napier (hi Shanedude) is good on offense (in comparaison with Colemers) but he is not fixing that problem on defense (its even worse : ok he is fast, remember Cole was/is the fastest player in NBA) but his size is a big concern. i can see a lot of Pick and Roll used on him to get the best match for a SG

cyclix · Post #32 » by **cyclix** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:23 pm

Ennis and Napier 1 & 2 among the rookie class in WS respectively.

Zombiesonics · Post #33 » by **Zombiesonics** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:43 am

Maroko wrote:i cant stop laughing when i read the PG's defend is not a big deal...

The defense is like a pyramid when you beat the first step (the PG), you are inside and then you can do everything you want to score.
People were pointing out our lack of rim protection but it was more the consequence of our bad defense on the opponent PG !
Last year, if we had a younger version of Shane Battier to defend the wings, LeBron could have been in charge of Tony Parker, that series would have been completly different exactly like he did 2 years ago against Parker and 4 years ago on Rose etc...

To me our biggest problem was our PG and Napier (hi Shanedude) is good on offense (in comparaison with Colemers) but he is not fixing that problem on defense (its even worse : ok he is fast, remember Cole was/is the fastest player in NBA) but his size is a big concern. i can see a lot of Pick and Roll used on him to get the best match for a SG

the problem with that is you haven't seen napier enough to evalute him as a defender. he can go to to toe with guys like brandon knight, he also terrific on rotations and the concept of team defense.

next he has extraordinary instincts on ball, terrific 'ball hawk'. he knows when to front, when sneak up on a post up player from behind for a steal. chalmers has the length and scoring acumen , so i get that. cole is an A1 athlete who jumps high with nice potential. niether possess the natural basketball iq of bazz

Slot Machine · Post #34 » by **Slot Machine** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:17 am

Maroko wrote:i cant stop laughing when i read the PG's defend is not a big deal...

The defense is like a pyramid when you beat the first step (the PG), you are inside and then you can do everything you want to score.
People were pointing out our lack of rim protection but it was more the consequence of our bad defense on the opponent PG !
Last year, if we had a younger version of Shane Battier to defend the wings, LeBron could have been in charge of Tony Parker, that series would have been completly different exactly like he did 2 years ago against Parker and 4 years ago on Rose etc...

To me our biggest problem was our PG and Napier (hi Shanedude) is good on offense (in comparaison with Colemers) but he is not fixing that problem on defense (its even worse : ok he is fast, remember Cole was/is the fastest player in NBA) but his size is a big concern. i can see a lot of Pick and Roll used on him to get the best match for a SG

The thing is hardly any of the PGs in today's NBA can defend each other. They're way too athletic and explosive.

Westbrook is blowing by anybody who's guarding him. Beverley, generally considered one of the best PG defenders in the league, still got lit up by Lillard in the playoffs. Guarding the PG is the biggest team effort out of any position imo.

That being said, a guy like Calderon undeniably has a negative effect on any defense but a poor defender at PG is the easiest to hide out of any position.

Also, I don't think Napier is a bad defender by any stretch. Certainly not enough where it should hold him back from starting.

JLop · Post #35 » by **JLop** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:11 am

And since when do we play defense before January? This three months is going to be all about offense.

twix2500 · Post #36 » by **twix2500** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:18 pm

lol@ pg dont defend smh

cyclix · Post #37 » by **cyclix** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:33 pm

There are some PGs that defend better than others and their impact is noticeable. However, a post defender or anchor is much more impactful than what a PG can ever give you.

Post #38 » by **KingDavid** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:02 pm

A solid center...even a JaVale McGee would have changed our landscape these past few years. Even now. Our wings are close to the middle to help inside because our bigs aren't good enough to trust on D. Open 3s.

walk with me · Post #39 » by **walk with me** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:56 pm

as far as shabazz defense go. I can't imagine it being any worse than someone like jameer nelson. They are comparable IMO in size and playing style (jameer may be a little more chunky) and jameer has been in the league for like 9 years and a very serviceable player at that.

dolphinatik · Post #40 » by **dolphinatik** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:13 pm

there are lots of pg's and players at all positions that do not defend well. we just choose when/who we want to criticize for it. There have been mvp's that have been horrible defensively. Ideally you want some strong individual defenders so the rest can be covered with team defense. No team is starting 5 defensive studs, Pistons were the closest years back.