And in the 2015 NBA draft the Miami Heat select....JUSTISE WINSLOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HeatDaChamps]

The comparison to Harden isnt based on Harden right now, come on lol. Justise reminds people of Harden because of the way he plays, tendencies, theres definitely similarities. Harden had to develop his overall game as well, not to mention plays no defense. But how that concept is missed, is beyond me.

Im not too worried about Justise's shooting percentage or shot, I think that can be developed. It frustrated me though, that he is very inactive off the ball. I mean, thats an effort thing, cutting to the basket, moving around to get open. From the Summer League games, it seems like he just stands there, and waits for the ball to get to him. Maybe the coaching staff told him to not exert too much effort, I dont know. But it looked bad. He was ball watching/ just walking around out there and then hurt himself.

[KingDavid]

The comparison to Harden isnt based on Harden right now, come on lol. Justise reminds people of Harden because of the way he plays, tendencies, theres definitely similarities. Harden had to develop his overall game as well, not to mention plays no defense. But how that concept is missed, is beyond me.

Im not too worried about Justise's shooting percentage or shot, I think that can be developed. It frustrated me though, that he is very inactive off the ball. I mean, thats an effort thing, cutting to the basket, moving around to get open. From the Summer League games, it seems like he just stands there, and waits for the ball to get to him. Maybe the coaching staff told him to not exert too much effort, I dont know. But it looked bad. He was ball watching/ just walking around out there and then hurt himself.

You're right. And it's weird because he was very active off the ball at Duke. He's young though. He'll develop.

The aches and pains he's going through worries me though. Not for long term health, but it could hamper development. One thing I know will translate from day one is his defense. He's got Harden beat in that category. He'll probably be Harden-lite on offense. IDC. That's amazing for the 10th pick in a draft with no apparent superstars.

[CanesHeatFins]

Winslow has not impressed, 33%? come on now.

And please stop the Harden comparison, only similarity is that they are lefties and Justise is trying very hard to Duplicate the swing move on drives to get foul calls. That's it.

Harden has elite handles, great 3pt shot, great mid range game, elite driver, GOAT Foul drawer. And was very close to MVP.

Im scaling back my hype on Justise. I don't think he will even be as good as Jimmy Butler. Hopefully he can atleast bring great Defense. I don't think his offense will ever be something to write home about.

And I HOPE I am very wrong about all this and he becomes a Superstar of course. Just don't see it. He is young though, age is definitely on his side.

Maybe WInslow is not a PRIME Harden. No one is comparing him to that. Rookie Harden on the other hand didn't come out the gate with elite handles and his midrange game was crappy too. Winslow drew like 10 fouls in a half in SL. He's a foul drawing machine too. And he's been playing hurt.

You know who else looked just as bad as Winslow in Summer League? Wade. He might not pan out. But wait and see what he grows in to instead of dismissing him because he doesn't look like an prime MVP candidate in summer league.

I went to the ORL summerleague that featured rookie wade and lbj. Wade played well considering he was learning to play pg for the 1st time. And he certainly didn't play with the energy & motor of a 50yr old like Winslow. Unlike Winslow, Wade was trending up after his summerleague. I remember telling all my buds that we got a star when I got back home from orl.

Just because some of us can confront Winslow's current red flags, doesn't mean we're dismissing him. I see nothing wrong with scaling back the hope. Most of you already have scaled back hope, bourne85 just had the guts to admit it. When Winslow was drafted almost the entire board had him as a worthy starter as SF, any you still feel that way? I dont don't.

Though I do love how confident and aggresive Winslow is when he's the primary ball handler, but i doubt he'll be given the opportunity to dominate that role anytime soon.

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

Winslow has not impressed, 33%? come on now.

And please stop the Harden comparison, only similarity is that they are lefties and Justise is trying very hard to Duplicate the swing move on drives to get foul calls. That's it.

Harden has elite handles, great 3pt shot, great mid range game, elite driver, GOAT Foul drawer. And was very close to MVP.

Im scaling back my hype on Justise. I don't think he will even be as good as Jimmy Butler. Hopefully he can atleast bring great Defense. I don't think his offense will ever be something to write home about.

And I HOPE I am very wrong about all this and he becomes a Superstar of course. Just don't see it. He is young though, age is definitely on his side.

Maybe WInslow is not a PRIME Harden. No one is comparing him to that. Rookie Harden on the other hand didn't come out the gate with elite handles and his midrange game was crappy too. Winslow drew like 10 fouls in a half in SL. He's a foul drawing machine too. And he's been playing hurt.

You know who else looked just as bad as Winslow in Summer League? Wade. He might not pan out. But wait and see what he grows in to instead of dismissing him because he doesn't look like an prime MVP candidate in summer league.

I went to the ORL summerleague that featured rookie wade and lbj. Wade played well considering he was learning to play pg for the 1st time. And he certainly didn't play with the energy & motor of a 50yr old like Winslow. Unlike Winslow, Wade was trending up after his summerleague. I remember telling all my buds that we got a star when I got back home from orl.

Just because some of us can confront Winslow's current red flags, doesn't mean we're dismissing him. I see nothing wrong with scaling back the hope. Most of you already have scaled back hope, bourne85 just had the guts to admit it. When Winslow was drafted almost the entire board had him as a worthy starter as SF, any you still feel that way? I dont don't.

Though I do love how confident and aggresive Winslow is when he's the primary ball handler, but i doubt he'll be given the opportunity to dominate that role anytime soon.

Too much eye roll worthy to address it all . . .

Do you get that there can be a difference between a player on a trajectory to be one of the greatest players of all time (LeBron and Wade) and a player that can be very good in the NBA?

Do you get that there are A LOT of great NBA players who sucked in summer league (Winslow didn't even suck, he just played sporadically)?

Do you get that Winslow is 19?

Do you get that summer league is a poor litmus test for how players will do in the NBA, ESPECIALLY for off-ball players. The majority of guys in summer league are fringe D-Leaguers looking to get their shot off and get theirs.

Do you get that the sample size of his game when playing in an actual competitive environment (devoid of ulterior motives and instead aimed at winning and competition) shows that his effort and activity level was one of his biggest strengths. A lot of stuff doesn't translate from college play to NBA, but effort and activity absolutely does.

Do you get that you're basing your extreme position off of 121 minutes of play in one of the least meaningful formats possible?

I think you may have had unreasonable expectations coming into it if you thought Winslow was going to be a regular starting caliber contributor as a rookie. The best case scenario for basically any rookie ever is to hopefully grow into actually being starting caliber over the course of a season. That is even less realistic for 19 year olds. It usually takes about 3 years to see what a player will ultimately be in the league. He can still contribute before then, but my goodness you have gone off the deep end over summer league

[KingDavid]

Winslow has not impressed, 33%? come on now.

And please stop the Harden comparison, only similarity is that they are lefties and Justise is trying very hard to Duplicate the swing move on drives to get foul calls. That's it.

Harden has elite handles, great 3pt shot, great mid range game, elite driver, GOAT Foul drawer. And was very close to MVP.

Im scaling back my hype on Justise. I don't think he will even be as good as Jimmy Butler. Hopefully he can atleast bring great Defense. I don't think his offense will ever be something to write home about.

And I HOPE I am very wrong about all this and he becomes a Superstar of course. Just don't see it. He is young though, age is definitely on his side.

Maybe WInslow is not a PRIME Harden. No one is comparing him to that. Rookie Harden on the other hand didn't come out the gate with elite handles and his midrange game was crappy too. Winslow drew like 10 fouls in a half in SL. He's a foul drawing machine too. And he's been playing hurt.

You know who else looked just as bad as Winslow in Summer League? Wade. He might not pan out. But wait and see what he grows in to instead of dismissing him because he doesn't look like an prime MVP candidate in summer league.

I went to the ORL summerleague that featured rookie wade and lbj. Wade played well considering he was learning to play pg for the 1st time. And he certainly didn't play with the energy & motor of a 50yr old like Winslow. Unlike Winslow, Wade was trending up after his summerleague. I remember telling all my buds that we got a star when I got back home from orl.

Just because some of us can confront Winslow's current red flags, doesn't mean we're dismissing him. I see nothing wrong with scaling back the hope. Most of you already have scaled back hope, bourne85 just had the guts to admit it. When Winslow was drafted almost the entire board had him as a worthy starter as SF, any you still feel that way? I dont don't.

Though I do love how confident and aggresive Winslow is when he's the primary ball handler, but i doubt he'll be given the opportunity to dominate that role anytime soon.

Well if you needed to "scale back the hope" of a rookie that you likened prime James Harden that mysteriously gained a great midrange game, you're simply not using your head. If any of you thought he could start in place of Deng with that broken jumpshot, that broken handle, and his mysterious injury, all without playing a single preseason game, then you don't know much about scouting and player development. If you're unimpressed because of his shooting numbers, then you're watching these games with a ton of confirmation bias for prime Harden instead of looking at what Winslow is and what he can become. His defense is phenomenal. NBA-ready. He has a knack for getting into the lane. He has a knack for drawing fouls. Both of which are done with a broken jumpshot, weak handle, and injured. All of those skills can be developed because he's shown flashes of pretty good IQ. His "50 year old motor" suddenly revs up on fastbreaks and while blocking jumpshots. Again, he's hurt and he's shown to provide much more activity and motor in his Duke games.

I never thought those crazy things about him, least of all PRIME James Harden. I did know, however, that he needed work. I also knew that he had a great opportunity to learn, grow, and flourish from Dragic, Deng, and of course the guy that Coach K said Winslow is; Dwyane Wade. That's what I knew, that's what I always stood by. I got sucked in to the homerism here and had to go to a rival board to get an honest outside opinion on Winslow right now. He needs work, but he's at the right age and the best place in the NBA to grow.

You know who's unimpressive? Beasley. If Winslow busts like Beasley, then you can call him unimpressive. Until then, let the kid grow.

[Mars]

Success measured in details for Heat rookie Justise Winslow

Jason Lieser | Palm Beach Post
July 15, 2015

LAS VEGAS — Justise Winslow has not done anything amazing in summer league for the Heat, but that is not what they are looking for out of him.

Rather than watching for explosive scoring binges or echoing dunks, what Miami wants most from Winslow is subtle. He is less than three weeks into his NBA crash course, starting with an intense week of two-a-day practices at AmericanAirlines Arena followed by summer leagues in Orlando and Las Vegas, and his early success is measured in the details.

“I’ve seen him pick up quite a bit on both sides of the floor,” said Heat assistant coach Dan Craig, who runs the summer team. “He’s somebody that you only need to tell something to once and it registers. He’s fast-tracking himself offensively and defensively, just hearing and seeing things the first time and not needing it hammered over and over again. It’s pretty impressive.”

Being a quick learner and mastering schemes will not electrify a fan base eager to see the No. 10 pick in the draft blossom into a star, but those are necessary steps in Winslow’s transition. The expectations will ramp up substantially when the season starts, the criteria will be much more obvious once the team begins testing him against real competition.

For now, though, an expedited acclimation is the goal. Even in the watered-down summer league games, the talent is better, the game is faster and the style of play is more complicated than what Winslow encountered in his one season at Duke.

If he continues adapting, particularly while playing a variety of positions for the Heat, he can call this a productive summer before he heads back to Miami to find a place to live and resume offseason workouts at the arena.

“I’m just trying to get used to the game,” Winslow said. “There’s a lot more rotations defensively. That’s something you see a lot more at the pro level because you see guys that are specialists at what they do, so you’ve gotta try to take them out of that. That’s the biggest adjustment so far.

“When I’m in there, I feel like I’m producing and affecting the game. It’s very limited minutes, but I feel like I’m doing very well.”

Winslow has played every position but center for the Heat the past few weeks as they try to figure out where he fits in the rotation. Most likely he will be the back-up small forward behind Luol Deng with some occasional appearances at shooting guard and power forward.

...His workload in Las Vegas has been much lighter as the Heat are being careful not to overdo it with a player not yet accustomed to this type of schedule...

Link

[greg4012]

You know who's unimpressive? Beasley. If Winslow busts like Beasley, then you can call him unimpressive. Until then, let the kid grow.

But how could that be? Beasley was great in summer league! Summer league confirmed that we got lucky that Beasley fell to #2. He average 20 ppg while Rose average 9 ppg on 29% shooting. That was the first indication that Beasley's game was better suited for the NBA than Rose's.

[HeatDaChamps]

You know who's unimpressive? Beasley. If Winslow busts like Beasley, then you can call him unimpressive. Until then, let the kid grow.

But how could that be? Beasley was great in summer league! Summer league confirmed that we got lucky that Beasley fell to #2. He average 20 ppg while Rose average 9 ppg on 29% shooting. That was the first indication that Beasley's game was better suited for the NBA than Rose's.

remember how well beas played. But Rose also only played like 2 games, so.....

[CanesHeatFins]

Spoiler:

Maybe WInslow is not a PRIME Harden. No one is comparing him to that. Rookie Harden on the other hand didn't come out the gate with elite handles and his midrange game was crappy too. Winslow drew like 10 fouls in a half in SL. He's a foul drawing machine too. And he's been playing hurt.

You know who else looked just as bad as Winslow in Summer League? Wade. He might not pan out. But wait and see what he grows in to instead of dismissing him because he doesn't look like an prime MVP candidate in summer league.

I went to the ORL summerleague that featured rookie wade and lbj. Wade played well considering he was learning to play pg for the 1st time. And he certainly didn't play with the energy & motor of a 50yr old like Winslow. Unlike Winslow, Wade was trending up after his summerleague. I remember telling all my buds that we got a star when I got back home from orl.

Just because some of us can confront Winslow's current red flags, doesn't mean we're dismissing him. I see nothing wrong with scaling back the hope. Most of you already have scaled back hope, bourne85 just had the guts to admit it. When Winslow was drafted almost the entire board had him as a worthy starter as SF, any you still feel that way? I dont don't.

Though I do love how confident and aggresive Winslow is when he's the primary ball handler, but i doubt he'll be given the opportunity to dominate that role anytime soon.

Too much eye roll worthy to address it all . . .

Do you get that there can be a difference between a player on a trajectory to be one of the greatest players of all time (LeBron and Wade) and a player that can be very good in the NBA?

Do you get that there are A LOT of great NBA players who sucked in summer league (Winslow didn't even suck, he just played sporadically)?

Do you get that Winslow is 19?

Do you get that summer league is a poor litmus test for how players will do in the NBA, ESPECIALLY for off-ball players. The majority of guys in summer league are fringe D-Leaguers looking to get their shot off and get theirs.

Do you get that the sample size of his game when playing in an actual competitive environment (devoid of ulterior motives and instead aimed at winning and competition) shows that his effort and activity level was one of his biggest strengths. A lot of stuff doesn't translate from college play to NBA, but effort and activity absolutely does.

Do you get that you're basing your extreme position off of 121 minutes of play in one of the least meaningful formats possible?

I think you may have had unreasonable expectations coming into it if you thought Winslow was going to be a regular starting caliber contributor as a rookie. The best case scenario for basically any rookie ever is to hopefully grow into actually being starting caliber over the course of a season. That is even less realistic for 19 year olds. It usually takes about 3 years to see what a player will ultimately be in the league. He can still contribute before then, but my goodness you have gone off the deep end over summer league

So you wrote all that because I said "there's nothing wrong with scaling back some hope on Winslow"?
Greg your ability to form an argument from your own exaggerated assumptions never ever cease to amaze me.

Did u even bother to read what i was replying to before u threw it in a spoiler? You may have noticed I was responding to "someone else" trying to wrongly interject a supposed bad Wade summerleague to compare to Winslow's bad summerleague.

Everyone knows summerleague isnt the end all be all. But if summerleague was as utterly meaningless as many here make it out to be, teams wouldn't ever sign players because of their play in summerleague. Based off summerleague, the board wanted to sign TJ last yr, give Reed an offer this yr, and cut Ennis cause he didn't show improvement in supposed meaningless summerleague games. Make your mind up guys.

I'm of the opinion(assuming i still have that right) that summerleague competition is higher than that of the ncaa and dleague. Ncaa and dleague have a team structure advantage, but in the the SL you're facing current & former 1st /2nd rounders, and grown men fighting for their livelihood. It would appear that I simply value SL a little bit more than you, I dont get why that would make you come out swinging.

I could care less about shooting pct, turnovers, stats,etc.. in the SL. What I do care about is talent, effort and activity, and he has shown himself to be suspect with the two things(effort/activity) that according to you, transfers the easiest to the nba. One thing about all True high energy motor guys is that they can't seem to turn it off whether it be practice or an all star game. And I find it to be a little concerning that our high energy draft pick appears to have the least amount of energy and activity in all of summer league.

So if its ok by you...... I'll root hard for him, but I'll definitely temper my expectations for Winslow

[greg4012]

So if its ok by you...... I'll root hard for him, but I'll definitely temper my expectations for Winslow

As well you should. I was responding to your general tirade over the past few days. You've got 60some posts on here and a plurality are likely about Winslow being disappointing. It's transparent. I don't know if you feel so compelled because you started out with absurd expectations or what. But, yes please temper your expectations. They must have been formerly out of whack or your gauge for what summer league offers is very out of whack (looking for tools that translate to the NBA setting, not production).


P.S. if you think I'm the one making exagerrated assumptions, you probably need to take some time to self-reflect

P.P.S. It seems your response to me now is much more in line with what many perceive to be the situation. Your prior posts were not singing the same tune. But if this is what you meant all along, then I can dig it.

[KingDavid]

Spoiler:

I went to the ORL summerleague that featured rookie wade and lbj. Wade played well considering he was learning to play pg for the 1st time. And he certainly didn't play with the energy & motor of a 50yr old like Winslow. Unlike Winslow, Wade was trending up after his summerleague. I remember telling all my buds that we got a star when I got back home from orl.

Just because some of us can confront Winslow's current red flags, doesn't mean we're dismissing him. I see nothing wrong with scaling back the hope. Most of you already have scaled back hope, bourne85 just had the guts to admit it. When Winslow was drafted almost the entire board had him as a worthy starter as SF, any you still feel that way? I dont don't.

Though I do love how confident and aggresive Winslow is when he's the primary ball handler, but i doubt he'll be given the opportunity to dominate that role anytime soon.

Too much eye roll worthy to address it all . . .

Do you get that there can be a difference between a player on a trajectory to be one of the greatest players of all time (LeBron and Wade) and a player that can be very good in the NBA?

Do you get that there are A LOT of great NBA players who sucked in summer league (Winslow didn't even suck, he just played sporadically)?

Do you get that Winslow is 19?

Do you get that summer league is a poor litmus test for how players will do in the NBA, ESPECIALLY for off-ball players. The majority of guys in summer league are fringe D-Leaguers looking to get their shot off and get theirs.

Do you get that the sample size of his game when playing in an actual competitive environment (devoid of ulterior motives and instead aimed at winning and competition) shows that his effort and activity level was one of his biggest strengths. A lot of stuff doesn't translate from college play to NBA, but effort and activity absolutely does.

Do you get that you're basing your extreme position off of 121 minutes of play in one of the least meaningful formats possible?

I think you may have had unreasonable expectations coming into it if you thought Winslow was going to be a regular starting caliber contributor as a rookie. The best case scenario for basically any rookie ever is to hopefully grow into actually being starting caliber over the course of a season. That is even less realistic for 19 year olds. It usually takes about 3 years to see what a player will ultimately be in the league. He can still contribute before then, but my goodness you have gone off the deep end over summer league

So you wrote all that because I said "there's nothing wrong with scaling back some hope on Winslow"?
Greg your ability to form an argument from your own exaggerated assumptions never ever cease to amaze me.

Did u even bother to read what i was replying to before u threw it in a spoiler? You may have noticed I was responding to "someone else" trying to wrongly interject a supposed bad Wade summerleague to compare to Winslow's bad summerleague.

Everyone knows summerleague isnt the end all be all. But if summerleague was as utterly meaningless as many here make it out to be, teams wouldn't ever sign players because of their play in summerleague. Based off summerleague, the board wanted to sign TJ last yr, give Reed an offer this yr, and cut Ennis cause he didn't show improvement in supposed meaningless summerleague games. Make your mind up guys.

I'm of the opinion(assuming i still have that right) that summerleague competition is higher than that of the ncaa and dleague. Ncaa and dleague have a team structure advantage, but in the the SL you're facing current & former 1st /2nd rounders, and grown men fighting for their livelihood. It would appear that I simply value SL a little bit more than you, I dont get why that would make you come out swinging.

I could care less about shooting pct, turnovers, stats,etc.. in the SL. What I do care about is talent, effort and activity, and he has shown himself to be suspect with the two things(effort/activity) that according to you, transfers the easiest to the nba. One thing about all True high energy motor guys is that they can't seem to turn it off whether it be practice or an all star game. And I find it to be a little concerning that our high energy draft pick appears to have the least amount of energy and activity in all of summer league.

So if its ok by you...... I'll root hard for him, but I'll definitely temper my expectations for Winslow

Everything is with context. Nothing is as black and white as you're trying to force on us.

Justise Winslow is hurt/sore. That's why his energy and activity are down. Watch his Duke games. He's much more active than he's shown in 121 minutes.

Yeah, you look at second year players differently from rookies in summer league because second year players usually trend better than rookies. Rookies you look at flashes of what everyone hopes they can bring on a professional level and point out their weaknesses. Second year rookies tend to show what weaknesses have been ironed out and if any weaknesses have been addressed. Ennis has not improved at all as a ballhandler, yet it was one of the things he really wanted to improve. Ennis' shot looks physically and structurally worse than last summer. And he still can't finish on a drive unless it's a dunk. Those a glaring weaknesses for a SF that haven't turned around. If we were rebuilding, it would be no big deal, but now we have to move forward since we have someone else to pick up that slack.

The board wanted TJ because he shown flashes of great translatable play and has shown this throughout the season. We know what we have in TJ. Ennis was the big question mark and he still hasn't shown any improvement. We'll see if that's the case in training camp/preseason.

SL is meaningful for rookies. Negligible for everyone else other than to view growth, if any. We wanted Reed because everyone assumes Bird is going to be traded so we can be under the tax and have something decent in the third string. All in context fam.

And my Wade comparison was to show that not all great prospects start off with a great summer league. There should have been no expectations to scale back. You bought into your own hype.

[QUIZ]

Winslow has not impressed, 33%? come on now.

And please stop the Harden comparison, only similarity is that they are lefties and Justise is trying very hard to Duplicate the swing move on drives to get foul calls. That's it.

Harden has elite handles, great 3pt shot, great mid range game, elite driver, GOAT Foul drawer. And was very close to MVP.

Im scaling back my hype on Justise. I don't think he will even be as good as Jimmy Butler. Hopefully he can atleast bring great Defense. I don't think his offense will ever be something to write home about.

And I HOPE I am very wrong about all this and he becomes a Superstar of course. Just don't see it. He is young though, age is definitely on his side.

Impressive overreaction. Where was Jimmy Butler at 19?

IDK he has a point. I think we should use Justise to dump Rio and Bird while he still has some value left.


Seth Curry>Justise

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZPkDVX3IVo[/youtube]

Spoiler:

[000]

CannesHeatFins, I too have your same concerns about Justise Winslow. When I voiced those concerns in response to Miami Herald article I was insulted and told I knew nothing about basketball. Anyone who has followed Dwayne Wade's career has every right to ask why Coach K compared Mr. Winslow to Mr. Wade. I just don't see Mr. Winslow as having the same leadership, resilience, and ability to put a team on his back as Mr. Wade. I too see a vast difference between Mr. Wade's determination and effort and that of Mr. Winslow in their respective Summer League performances. I hope Mr. Winslow proves me wrong - I would like nothing better than that.

[CanesHeatFins]

CannesHeatFins, I too have your same concerns about Justise Winslow. When I voiced those concerns in response to Miami Herald article I was insulted and told I knew nothing about basketball. Anyone who has followed Dwayne Wade's career has every right to ask why Coach K compared Mr. Winslow to Mr. Wade. I just don't see Mr. Winslow as having the same leadership, resilience, and ability to put a team on his back as Mr. Wade. I too see a vast difference between Mr. Wade's determination and effort and that of Mr. Winslow in their respective Summer League performances. I hope Mr. Winslow proves me wrong - I would like nothing better than that.

Ya thanks for that. Some of these dudes are a trip and are completely full of themselves. Acting as the opinion police on all things Winslow and Summerleague related. Little did I know that there are only certain players and abilities that i should cherry pick to scout & pay close attention to. Next year I'll be sure to check in with the summerleague scouting police on here before i post an opinion that gets me locked up again.

[DefenseWins]

Why dont yall wait til the actual season to judge Winslow? Even then he wouldnt hit his potential

I think we as Heat fans are in a different terrority because we have never seen a 19 year old develop. Wright was so damn long ago, forgot if Butler was that young, and then you have Beasley. The thing with Beas was he was talented but did not have the BBIQ or maturity

Winslow will take a few years. Paul George gradually progressed, Jimmy Butler gradualy progressed.

Now I do think the projections for him being a star, superstar, maybe premature. He seems like an impact player like Kawhi. Just a young, subtle dude doing what he has to do.

I mean... He will be a priority of the 2nd unit, against benches. He will learn his way through that role first. I do think he is an SG in this league tho... Too small to play SF in this league vs starters.

[Zasterror]

I think most of y'all looking at the wrong things when trying to evaluate Winslow in the SL league. It's unfair to Winslow and you guys are putting too much stock in SL games.

[CanesHeatFins]

Ennis gave ya a good 4yr college career, two good summerleagues(2013,2014), two great stints playing int'l ball for Australia and Puerto Rico, and an ok rookie season......And then exactly 1 bad summerleague(2015) later darn near the entire board wants to ship him back to Australia. I don't get it. If you guys can evaluate that Ennis cant dribble and is dribbling into turnovers, im allowed to evaluate the obvious in that Winslow played with low energy and effort. And quite frankly looked lazy at times. It doesn't mean all is lost, or that his low SL effort will be his nba reality. I just don't have the ability to turn a blind eye to hustle or hypocrisy.

Every year around draft time there's a short list of draftees that appear to be able to step right in and start for a team. And in my opinion Winslow was on that short list(Towns,Okafur,Russell,Winslow,WCS). I'm deciding to pump the brakes and realizing he's more of a project than I initially thought.

[Mars]

Ennis is 25.
Justise is 19.

[CanesHeatFins]

Ennis is 25.
Justise is 19.

Oh make no mistake about it, im on board for ennis being the odd man out as well. I just dont cherry pick whom to evaluate when my team plays. Everyone is up under the scope for better or worse.

[DefenseWins]

Ennis gave ya a good 4yr college career, two good summerleagues(2013,2014), two great stints playing int'l ball for Australia and Puerto Rico, and an ok rookie season......And then exactly 1 bad summerleague(2015) later darn near the entire board wants to ship him back to Australia. I don't get it. If you guys can evaluate that Ennis cant dribble and is dribbling into turnovers, im allowed to evaluate the obvious in that Winslow played with low energy and effort. And quite frankly looked lazy at times. It doesn't mean all is lost, or that his low SL effort will be his nba reality. I just don't have the ability to turn a blind eye to hustle or hypocrisy.

Every year around draft time there's a short list of draftees that appear to be able to step right in and start for a team. And in my opinion Winslow was on that short list(Towns,Okafur,Russell,Winslow,WCS). I'm deciding to pump the brakes and realizing he's more of a project than I initially thought.

Like Mars said Ennis is 25, Winslow is 19.

Ennis right now is supposed to be way more developed, know how to dribble, but has taken steps backwards. This is what you want from a prospect?

Much of this board loved Ennis but in a year where we want to contend, he has shown no improvements in his biggest weakness. Winslow on the other hand has the tools to do everything, just has to work on his shot. If you want to point out his weaknesses and whatever, fine, but everyone is basing their impressions that this isnt basically his final form.

Also, Ennis is actually showing some mental weaknesses... He is fragile. Sadly, love the guy but on a top East team there is no room for that. Winslow on the other hand is coming off a Duke title and wants to win and keeps saying so in interviews. He has the right mindset for what we want to do NOW (even if its a longshot to win).