Miami Heat @ Santanio Spurs - October 14th - 8:30PM

[dancing2thabeet]

What is the fastest way to check boxscores on NBA.com? I only get a a Pistons video playing when I click the "games" tab and when I select any game on the slider thingy on left side I get the "page cannot be found" message.

stop going to nba.com...espn.com/nba is better and actually functions the way a website is supposed to.

Good idea.

[Mos_Heat]

What is the fastest way to check boxscores on NBA.com? I only get a a Pistons video playing when I click the "games" tab and when I select any game on the slider thingy on left side I get the "page cannot be found" message.

stop going to nba.com...espn.com/nba is better and actually functions the way a website is supposed to.

Good idea.

I use espn, but if you like nba.com so much http://origin.nba.com/ - old version of their site.

[PizzaLord305]

Man I'd rather be the team with unproven young guys with talent and a solid collection of role players who fit the scheme and are willing to be coached than what the knicks and bulls have which is overpaid has beens who conflict with the playing style of the young stars they do have.
There's a reason the celts with literally an NBA level sixth man as their primary scoring threat and a nice collection of unproven two way and role players can have a much better record than a bulls team with two all stars.

[Bishop45]

I will not sit for this Bri slander, not when it's in vain of a guy who's rarely ever had a positive season and rarely expected to even play 60 games. If Bri isn't NBA worthy, I rather find out than to gamble for borderline replacement talent

If Bri is cut, then I'll keep my piece but I won't go down quietly. After the Wolves game, where starters will likely be rested, I bet they'll start cuts... Please be Babbitt

I'm sorry fam. But at this level, if you can't shoot, you better be one hell of an athlete. That's not Briante (he got some springs though). Briante is an undersized Patrick Beverley that can pass but, can't shoot and doesn't have the speed to get where he wants and doesn't have the size or athleticism to finish in traffic. It's an off mix. All any defender has to do is play safety between Briante and the paint because he's scouted as a poor shooter.

On the other hand, if he becomes an above average shooter, his whole world opens up. He goes from d league to a dangerous combo guard that can pass. That's why I want to keep Briante on the roster. But I don't think he makes the final 15 unless we cut Beno.

He can shoot from mid, he jst hasn't got the chance to show it's respectable. That's why he needs the experience and that experience over a third stringer who won't be here for long and Tyler's/Rich's prowess to be something they simply won't

He's worth the opportunity, 'specially this year. Beno doesn't need to be cut

[KingDavid]

...We're missing a consistent 3rd star. It's Dragic, whiteside, and then no one else. That's going to hurt. I'm not expecting anything like that this season. Just want to watch the young guys improve.

2015-16 Boston Celtics • 48 Wins (beat Warriors, Cavs, Thunder, Clippers and Toronto):

Isaiah Thomas (1-Time All-Star)
Avery Bradley
Jared Sullinger
Amir Johnson
Evan Turner
Jae Crowder
Marcus Smart
Jonas Jerebko
Kelly Olynyk
Tyler Zeller
David Lee
R.J. Hunter
Terry Rozier
Jordan Mickey
James Young

...Last season Boston won by committee. They had Isaiah and who else as far as 2nd and 3rd "stars"? I want to watch the young guys improve as well. Doesn't mean the team can't compete in the process.

Getting hung up on preseason...save this for when the games matter. Then we can revisit this.

[KingDavid]

I will not sit for this Bri slander, not when it's in vain of a guy who's rarely ever had a positive season and rarely expected to even play 60 games. If Bri isn't NBA worthy, I rather find out than to gamble for borderline replacement talent

If Bri is cut, then I'll keep my piece but I won't go down quietly. After the Wolves game, where starters will likely be rested, I bet they'll start cuts... Please be Babbitt

I'm sorry fam. But at this level, if you can't shoot, you better be one hell of an athlete. That's not Briante (he got some springs though). Briante is an undersized Patrick Beverley that can pass but, can't shoot and doesn't have the speed to get where he wants and doesn't have the size or athleticism to finish in traffic. It's an off mix. All any defender has to do is play safety between Briante and the paint because he's scouted as a poor shooter.

On the other hand, if he becomes an above average shooter, his whole world opens up. He goes from d league to a dangerous combo guard that can pass. That's why I want to keep Briante on the roster. But I don't think he makes the final 15 unless we cut Beno.

He can shoot from mid, he jst hasn't got the chance to show it's respectable. That's why he needs the experience and that experience over a third stringer who won't be here for long and Tyler's/Rich's prowess to be something they simply won't

He's worth the opportunity, 'specially this year. Beno doesn't need to be cut

We can't cut Babbitt. We are thin at forward as it is.

We're gonna start Babbitt at 4. Lols. Hassan needs that spacing. Williams doesn't provide that and JJ isn't a starter.

[Bishop45]

I'm sorry fam. But at this level, if you can't shoot, you better be one hell of an athlete. That's not Briante (he got some springs though). Briante is an undersized Patrick Beverley that can pass but, can't shoot and doesn't have the speed to get where he wants and doesn't have the size or athleticism to finish in traffic. It's an off mix. All any defender has to do is play safety between Briante and the paint because he's scouted as a poor shooter.

On the other hand, if he becomes an above average shooter, his whole world opens up. He goes from d league to a dangerous combo guard that can pass. That's why I want to keep Briante on the roster. But I don't think he makes the final 15 unless we cut Beno.

He can shoot from mid, he jst hasn't got the chance to show it's respectable. That's why he needs the experience and that experience over a third stringer who won't be here for long and Tyler's/Rich's prowess to be something they simply won't

He's worth the opportunity, 'specially this year. Beno doesn't need to be cut

We can't cut Babbitt. We are thin at forward as it is.

We're gonna start Babbitt at 4. Lols. Hassan needs that spacing. Williams doesn't provide that and JJ isn't a starter.

Babbitt hasn't now or ever proven he's more starting material than JJ/Williams. We have more PF than any other we have players in any other position.

Just my opinion, but Babbitt's never been good and shouldn't cost a look at a young player. I can take Ellington over Rodney, just cause things happen but I can't take Babbitt lightly with this roster construction

[Mars]

...We're missing a consistent 3rd star. It's Dragic, whiteside, and then no one else. That's going to hurt. I'm not expecting anything like that this season. Just want to watch the young guys improve.

2015-16 Boston Celtics • 48 Wins (beat Warriors, Cavs, Thunder, Clippers and Toronto):

Isaiah Thomas (1-Time All-Star)
Avery Bradley
Jared Sullinger
Amir Johnson
Evan Turner
Jae Crowder
Marcus Smart
Jonas Jerebko
Kelly Olynyk
Tyler Zeller
David Lee
R.J. Hunter
Terry Rozier
Jordan Mickey
James Young

...Last season Boston won by committee. They had Isaiah and who else as far as 2nd and 3rd "stars"? I want to watch the young guys improve as well. Doesn't mean the team can't compete in the process.

Getting hung up on preseason...save this for when the games matter. Then we can revisit this.

You provided the commentary on the HEAT-Spurs preseason game... not me. I'm talking about the regular season.

[deb]

Spoiler:

He can shoot from mid, he jst hasn't got the chance to show it's respectable. That's why he needs the experience and that experience over a third stringer who won't be here for long and Tyler's/Rich's prowess to be something they simply won't

He's worth the opportunity, 'specially this year. Beno doesn't need to be cut

We can't cut Babbitt. We are thin at forward as it is.

We're gonna start Babbitt at 4. Lols. Hassan needs that spacing. Williams doesn't provide that and JJ isn't a starter.

Babbitt hasn't now or ever proven he's more starting material than JJ/Williams. We have more PF than any other we have players in any other position.

Just my opinion, but Babbitt's never been good and shouldn't cost a look at a young player. I can take Ellington over Rodney, just cause things happen but I can't take Babbitt lightly with this roster construction

We have only one true pf, and that's McNeverplays, everybody else's a tweener. And even he has a weird skillset for the position

Keyword: spacing. 3pt shooting will be key this season and Baba is the best shooter on the team, his roster spot is guaranteed. He could actually be key to this years success.

Also, from what I've seen, I haven't been excited by Webber much. His ceiling is Ish Smith imo, and that's if he's lucky. Udrih is generally speaking the safer bet of the two, the question is, is he now to old and crippled to actually play? If he is, he'll get cut, if not, Webber's the one who's gone.

Another thing is contract status, who's guaranteed and who can we actually cut?

Also what does being OK with Ellington over Mcgruder because things happen mean? What things? I'm pretty much undecided on the issue, whomever gets to stay won't be a key piece imo. I maybe sligtly prefer Ellington, cause he's actually played at this level before, while McGruder at 25 still hasn't.

[KingDavid]

2015-16 Boston Celtics • 48 Wins (beat Warriors, Cavs, Thunder, Clippers and Toronto):

Isaiah Thomas (1-Time All-Star)
Avery Bradley
Jared Sullinger
Amir Johnson
Evan Turner
Jae Crowder
Marcus Smart
Jonas Jerebko
Kelly Olynyk
Tyler Zeller
David Lee
R.J. Hunter
Terry Rozier
Jordan Mickey
James Young

...Last season Boston won by committee. They had Isaiah and who else as far as 2nd and 3rd "stars"? I want to watch the young guys improve as well. Doesn't mean the team can't compete in the process.

Getting hung up on preseason...save this for when the games matter. Then we can revisit this.

You provided the commentary on the HEAT-Spurs preseason game... not me. I'm talking about the regular season.

Go ahead and compare that roster to our current active one.

[deb]

Getting hung up on preseason...save this for when the games matter. Then we can revisit this.

You provided the commentary on the HEAT-Spurs preseason game... not me. I'm talking about the regular season.

Go ahead and compare that roster to our current active one.

I'd say current Miami roster compares favourably to the 2015/16 Boston roster, which to me still seems like pure trash on paper. How they actually managed to reach the playoffs with that is beyond me.

You want player to player comparison (only players that averaged more than 20 mpg for Boston):
Thomas - Dragic
Bradley - Richardson
Crowder - Winslow
Turner - Waiters
Smart - TJ
Sullinger - Whiteside
Amir Johnson - James johnson
Olynyk - Williams

I'd even say Miami's current roster has more talent, while the rest of the "matchups" are fairly even, Whiteside's a lot better than Sullinger.

[Mars]

Go ahead and compare that roster to our current active one.

Already taken care of by deb.

And this isn't to say the HEAT is guaranteed to be as successful this regular season as Boston was last year. I simply disagree with your stance that a team can't succeed without three "stars".

Celtics had Isaiah and no one you would even consider being a 2nd consistent "star" let alone a 3rd one.

[KingDavid]

You provided the commentary on the HEAT-Spurs preseason game... not me. I'm talking about the regular season.

Go ahead and compare that roster to our current active one.

I'd say current Miami roster compares favourably to the 2015/16 Boston roster, which to me still seems like pure trash on paper. How they actually managed to reach the playoffs with that is beyond me.

You want player to player comparison (only players that averaged more than 20 mpg for Boston):
Thomas - Dragic
Bradley - Richardson
Crowder - Winslow
Turner - Waiters
Smart - TJ
Sullinger - Whiteside
Amir Johnson - James johnson
Olynyk - Williams

I'd even say Miami's current roster has more talent, while the rest of the "matchups" are fairly even, Whiteside's a lot better than Sullinger.

Whiteside also demands the ball significantly more than Sullinger and is better, but passes a whole lot less. The whole thing behind an offense that revolves around ball movement are bigs that also move the ball. If Hassan gets on board and starts to become comfortable with passing overall, as well as Reed, then I could believe in this team overachieving their way into the playoffs. Until then, I expect heavy usage by dragic and Whiteside until they sit. Then watch KobeWade have polarizing games off the bench.

I just don't see it. I think we're closer to 2014-2015, than 2015-2016 celtics. Or a mix of both? I don't see how in one season, we go from iso-heavy to smooth ball movement PLUS winning 40+ games. Transitioning year? Maybe. But I'm expecting the lottery.

[deb]

Agree in general, though something like this did happen to Boston last year, it also happened to Dragic and the Suns in 13-14. The chemistry has to be just right though. Gotta be optimistic, otherwise what's the point in watching the Heat?

[Bishop45]

Spoiler:

We can't cut Babbitt. We are thin at forward as it is.

We're gonna start Babbitt at 4. Lols. Hassan needs that spacing. Williams doesn't provide that and JJ isn't a starter.

Babbitt hasn't now or ever proven he's more starting material than JJ/Williams. We have more PF than any other we have players in any other position.

Just my opinion, but Babbitt's never been good and shouldn't cost a look at a young player. I can take Ellington over Rodney, just cause things happen but I can't take Babbitt lightly with this roster construction

We have only one true pf, and that's McNeverplays, everybody else's a tweener. And even he has a weird skillset for the position

Keyword: spacing. 3pt shooting will be key this season and Baba is the best shooter on the team, his roster spot is guaranteed. He could actually be key to this years success.

Also, from what I've seen, I haven't been excited by Webber much. His ceiling is Ish Smith imo, and that's if he's lucky. Udrih is generally speaking the safer bet of the two, the question is, is he now to old and crippled to actually play? If he is, he'll get cut, if not, Webber's the one who's gone.

Another thing is contract status, who's guaranteed and who can we actually cut?

Also what does being OK with Ellington over Mcgruder because things happen mean? What things? I'm pretty much undecided on the issue, whomever gets to stay won't be a key piece imo. I maybe sligtly prefer Ellington, cause he's actually played at this level before, while McGruder at 25 still hasn't.

I think you're overvaluing the meaning this space and pace scheme. They're a ton of guys that can shoot, that will never tip the scale... Some out of the league already, and some can't get minutes cause they're so one dimensional. Babbitt has never been good/serviceable... That's not going to change. I rather test a young players ceiling instead

I'm okay with Ellington over Gruder because he's a vet and probably more suited to be a third string

Williams, Johnson, McBob, and Haslem are all PF's... That's 4 and we'd be trading a prospect for a guy that's never been good and only played 2 60 game seasons

[Mars]

Whiteside also demands the ball significantly more than Sullinger and is better, but passes a whole lot less. The whole thing behind an offense that revolves around ball movement are bigs that also move the ball. If Hassan gets on board and starts to become comfortable with passing overall, as well as Reed, then I could believe in this team overachieving their way into the playoffs. Until then, I expect heavy usage by dragic and Whiteside until they sit. Then watch KobeWade have polarizing games off the bench.

I just don't see it. I think we're closer to 2014-2015, than 2015-2016 celtics. Or a mix of both? I don't see how in one season, we go from iso-heavy to smooth ball movement PLUS winning 40+ games. Transitioning year? Maybe. But I'm expecting the lottery.

While I agree with how pivotal ball movement and buying into team philosophy will be, once again, my issue was with you initially saying the HEAT would struggle because they lacked a consistent 3rd star. To refute your point, I presented the Celtics as an example of a team that didn't have a consistent 2nd or 3rd "star" yet succeeded.

Boston also serves as the perfect example of a team that entered last season with very low expectations, but managed to strive because their whole was greater than the sum of its parts. Portland's team from last year fits that profile as well.

None of us actually knows what this team will do. Win or lose, it's the unpredictability that makes sports intriguing.

[KingDavid]

Go ahead and compare that roster to our current active one.

Already taken care of by deb.

And this isn't to say the HEAT is guaranteed to be as successful this regular season as Boston was last year. I simply disagree with your stance that a team can't succeed without three "stars".

Celtics had Isaiah and no one you would even consider being a 2nd consistent "star" let alone a 3rd one.

Your example is an outlier. They were a top 3 defense.

You limited "star" to one side of the ball. They were the 4th best defense in the league, led by Avery Bradley who is a yearly dpoy candidate and current all-nba defense 1st team. They didn't have a black hole at center. They do have a prior 6moy that is now leading that team. They do have a coach that specializes in ball movement. Our coach has been running an iso-heavy offense since he stepped into the league.

I did not say "a team" couldn't succeed without three stars. I said OUR team would hurt without that 3rd star and thus, makes us likely to miss the playoffs. It would take career highs in multiple categories from multiple guys otherwise. I just don't see that kind of growth in one offseason considering who we lost (wade, joe, deng, bosh) vs who we gained (lol).

[KingDavid]

Whiteside also demands the ball significantly more than Sullinger and is better, but passes a whole lot less. The whole thing behind an offense that revolves around ball movement are bigs that also move the ball. If Hassan gets on board and starts to become comfortable with passing overall, as well as Reed, then I could believe in this team overachieving their way into the playoffs. Until then, I expect heavy usage by dragic and Whiteside until they sit. Then watch KobeWade have polarizing games off the bench.

I just don't see it. I think we're closer to 2014-2015, than 2015-2016 celtics. Or a mix of both? I don't see how in one season, we go from iso-heavy to smooth ball movement PLUS winning 40+ games. Transitioning year? Maybe. But I'm expecting the lottery.

While I agree with how pivotal ball movement and buying into team philosophy will be, once again, my issue was with you initially saying the HEAT would struggle because they lacked a consistent 3rd star. To refute your point, I presented the Celtics as an example of a team that didn't have a consistent 2nd or 3rd "star" yet succeeded.

Boston also serves as the perfect example of a team that entered last season with very low expectations, but managed to strive because their whole was greater than the sum of its parts. Portland's team from last year fits that profile as well.

None of us actually knows what this team will do. Win or lose, it's the unpredictability that makes sports intriguing.

We do not have a perimeter player that possesses the skills of Damian Lillard or CJ McCollum.

The celtics did not need a 3rd star because they had the 4th best defense in the league and a lot of ball movement. They did not lose players in the caliber of Joe Johnson, Dwyane Wade, Luol Deng, and Chris Bosh in one offseason, and are not coached by someone who has only dealt with iso-heavy, high usage players since he started coaching.

Of course we don't know what this team will do. That's why there's predictions. Most of them have us missing the playoffs for a reason. If there's a surprise and we make it, great. I would love for that to happen. But I wouldn't put my money there.

[KingDavid]

Agree in general, though something like this did happen to Boston last year, it also happened to Dragic and the Suns in 13-14. The chemistry has to be just right though. Gotta be optimistic, otherwise what's the point in watching the Heat?

I'm here for the good and the bad.

Glad we have something to look forward to either way.

[Mars]

Your example is an outlier. They were a top 3 defense.

You limited "star" to one side of the ball. They were the 4th best defense in the league, led by Avery Bradley who is a yearly dpoy candidate and current all-nba defense 1st team. They didn't have a black hole at center. They do have a prior 6moy that is now leading that team. They do have a coach that specializes in ball movement. Our coach has been running an iso-heavy offense since he stepped into the league.

I did not say "a team" couldn't succeed without three stars. I said OUR team would hurt without that 3rd star and thus, makes us likely to miss the playoffs. It would take career highs in multiple categories from multiple guys otherwise. I just don't see that kind of growth in one offseason considering who we lost (wade, joe, deng, bosh) vs who we gained (lol).

I actually didn't limit "star" to one side of the ball. Defensive ability is meaningful.

Since you've tabbed Bradley as that 2nd guy for the Celtics based on his perimeter defense, wouldn't that unquestionably make Justise the 3rd guy for the HEAT based on his perimeter defense?

And I'm well aware of how good Boston defensive was last season. Been pointing out the Celtic's defensive ability on this board since the summer. But I'm also very aware of how good the HEAT defense was last year...

Top Rated Defenses 2015-16:

1. Spurs 96.6
2. Hawks 98.8
3. Pacers 100.2
4. Celtics 100.9
5. Warriors 100.9
6. Clippers 100.9
7. HEAT 101.5

...Boston was 4th and the HEAT was essentially the 5th best defense in the league (at worst the 7th best) led by Hassan and Justise. The last thing anyone needs to be concerned with is this team's defense.

As for the iso-heavy offense, the coach ran it because he had iso heavy players. They're gone. The ball will now move out of necessity. It will move because the days of the ball pounding isos while the point guard stands in the corner are gone.

My guess is Spo is salivating at the prospect of more ball/player movement and young, fresh legs looking to get out in transition at every opportunity.