powerball1373 wrote: I don't think he was gunning in the sense of taking bad shots. Majority of them were good shots that I'm assuming the team WANTS him to take, he just had an off night. It would've been much worse if he went into a shell and stopped shooting. At least he had the balls to go out guns blazing.
He actually seemed to do a pretty good job of finding teammates as well, as evidenced by the 9 assists. You're making it seem like he was out there chucking awful shot after shot, in which case I'm sure he would've gotten benched.
Ok, BROTH333333333333R, I'll play your disingenuous numberzzz game. Let's compare his shots against the team as a whole last night, as well as the team's per-game averages from last year's playoff run.
Conclusions:
1) Herro's shot selection by type basically mirrored the team last night (55.6% vs. 54.4% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 45.6%) and was very close to the team averages from last year's playoff run (55.6% vs. 50.6% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 49.4% open/wide open).
2) The valid criticism was the missed open & wide open shots (a few which seemed untimely as well), which not only hurt but jumped out and probably skewed your eye test for the rest of his game.
edited to add:
3) Forgot to address the "7 seconds or less" part of your post, so I'll summarize it here. 24-15 seconds "Very Early/Early" (25.9% Herro vs. 36.7% Team); 15-7 seconds "Average" (48.1% Herro vs. 38.9% Team); 7-0 seconds "Late/Very Late" (25.9% Herro vs. 24.5% Team). So he took less early shots, more average shots (i.e. BEFORE they become grenades) and about the same frequency of late clock shots. This doesn't really paint the picture you thought it did.
0-2 feet (very tight) Herro - 3.7% of shots (0% EFG) Team - 3.3% of shots (0% EFG) 2023 Team - 6.1% of shots (45.5% EFG)
2-4 feet (tight) Herro - 51.9% of shots (42.9% EFG) Team - 51.1% of shots (46.7% EFG) 2023 Team - 44.5% of shots (46.5% EFG)
4-6 feet (open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (33.3% EFG) Team - 17.8% of shots (59.4% EFG) 2023 Team - 33% of shots (57.3% EFG)
6+ feet (wide open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (50% EFG) Team - 27.8% of shots (56% EFG) 2023 Team 16.4% of shots (65.5% EFG)
greg4012 wrote:The Point Herro experiment is not compatible with playoff level bball. We struggled to get into a set or even cross half court throughout the game.
He's a turnover machine. That's why I've been preaching and will continue to preach it: Herro should be coming off the bench! I don't care how much he's getting paid. He's most effective on the second unit. It doesn't mean he's a bad player. He's just not a star player...just a good role player
Players don't turn over the ball off of the bench? Wouldn't he still be playing....starter minutes off of the bench?
Sure they do. I don't think his turnover margin would be so high if you make him the 6th man and have him playing the majority of his minutes against the opposing team's 2nd unit. I would use him like teams used Lou Williams to be a spark plug off the bench.
Ok, BROTH333333333333R, I'll play your disingenuous numberzzz game. Let's compare his shots against the team as a whole last night, as well as the team's per-game averages from last year's playoff run and this year's regular season.
Not being disingenuous at all, I've been saying this for YEARS now and it's not because he's young because I actually like Jovic and Jaquez Jr, had no problem with Bam either early on. Herro is someone who has stuck out to me as someone who doesn't contribute to winning, the previous younger players I've had somewhat the same issues with are Ben Simmons in Philly, Wiggins and Towns in Minnesota. All have certain great skills, much like Herro but when put in a lead role their teams usually don't do well. Wiggins got a wakeup call by being traded but that didn't last long although he did wake up long enough to help GS to a Championship.
Conclusions:
1) Herro's shot selection by type basically mirrored the team last night (55.6% vs. 54.4% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 45.6%) and was very close to the team averages from last year's playoff run (55.6% vs. 50.6% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 49.4% open/wide open).
OK but normally when you aren't hitting shots you find other ways to score vs keep chucking shots, I mentioned this earlier in the thread and taking 27 shots when you missed most of them until late in the 4th isn't trying to help the team.
2) The valid criticism was the missed open & wide open shots (a few which seemed untimely as well), which not only hurt but jumped out and probably skewed your eye test for the rest of his game.
Nope and I could tell he was off last night which is why I decided to post his FGA and shots made early on in the game, even with Miami winning. Him hitting a couple shots late in his volume shooting act helped his number look a just look bad, not completely terrible as they were 3 1/2 quarters of the game.
edited to add:
3) Forgot to address the "7 seconds or less" part of your post, so I'll summarize it here. 24-15 seconds "Very Early/Early" (25.9% Herro vs. 36.7% Team); 15-7 seconds "Average" (48.1% Herro vs. 38.9% Team); 7-0 seconds "Late/Very Late" (25.9% Herro vs. 24.5% Team). So he took less early shots, more average shots (i.e. BEFORE they become grenades) and about the same number of late clock shots. This doesn't really paint the picture you thought it did.
0-2 feet (very tight) Herro - 3.7% of shots (0% EFG) Team - 3.3% of shots (0% EFG) 2023 Team - 6.1% of shots (45.5% EFG)
2-4 feet (tight) Herro - 51.9% of shots (42.9% EFG) Team - 51.1% of shots (46.7% EFG) 2023 Team - 44.5% of shots (46.5% EFG)
4-6 feet (open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (33.3% EFG) Team - 17.8% of shots (59.4% EFG) 2023 Team - 33% of shots (57.3% EFG)
6+ feet (wide open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (50% EFG) Team - 27.8% of shots (56% EFG) 2023 Team 16.4% of shots (65.5% EFG)
Holy ****, sure those are normally good times to take a shot unless you're missing most of your attempts which if that's the case you should either continue to try to find an easy shot to see the ball go through the basket or let the offense keep trying to generate a look.
I guess I'll once again reiterate I don't think Herro is trash, he has some really nice qualities to him but shot selection is not one of them and it dramatically hurts his scoring efficiency and as his FGA climb so does the wasted offensive possessions for Miami. Herro could be really good offensively if he just didn't take so many ill-advised shots.
NBA.com doesn't have the shots videos up connected to the boxscore (at the time I'm writing this) but it does for the play by play.
4th shot, a catch and shoot 3pt shot while moving and with a player close enough to contest and with 20 seconds on the shot clock, this shot was the first one that started to bother me and made me wonder, is he going to be chucking shots all game? We're less than 7 minutes in the game with 4 shots, a TO trying to create a shot attempt and a 2nd TO doing I don't know what.
5th shot, 1 minute later, this is now the 6th time he's shot or tried to get a shot off in less than 8 minutes, he goes baseline which should be a good shot but Embiid closes out on him and contests the shot but Herro does makes the shot with a small fade away over him, that's a pretty difficult shot to going over Embiid and I'm sensing he's decided he's going to take a ton of shots no matter what, he's looking to prove himself.
Here's Herro's first assist (I dislike plays like this counted as assists, the pass was ordinary, Martin made the moves to create a shot), Herro passes to Martin behind the 3pt line and then Martin attacks the basket after catching the ball and makes a layup/shot fading/falling away from the basket.
6th FGA, a fast break with one guy who could contest him back and yet he still tried to make the layup with a double clutched attempt getting blocked by Oubre.
7th FGA (8th attempt so far), the shot was an attacking push shot, it was a good play overall but to do it he had to split 2 defenders and shoot over Embiid, like I said good play but it was forced which I'm now expecting him to do and it seems Spoelstra sees it too instantly calling a defensive set and turns and takes a step to tell Butler to replace Herro, there's still a minute and half left in the first quarter.
That's just the first quarter and only 7 of his 27 FGA. Herro "could" be a good player but man does he just decide force or take too many bad shots. In the second quarter he misses his first 4 shots including a shot after he bounce a pass off Bam's head, his 5th shot he made was a fast break 3 while moving which are usually very difficult shots and maybe a shot you don't take if you're not hitting that night, but not Herro. You can see those videos of the 2nd quarter at... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q2
3rd quarter
Spoiler:
1st shot in the 2nd half possession Herro starts out with a running 1 legged floater over Embiid that misses. 2nd Herro shot was also a miss from an open 3 off a Martin drive, you have to take that shot even though he missed. Herro looking to attack gets the ball picked by Lowry which leads to a fast break score for Philly. Herro then gets a couple of assists. 3rd Herro shot, he brings the ball up, Bam gives him a screen and he takes an Embiid contested 3 that misses. Embiid was dropped back but was able to contest the shot. 4th Herro shot but this was late in the shot clock, he gets the ball, Bam gives him a screen and he gets a decent look at a 3 with the shot clock winding down, his 4th miss out of 4 shots so far in the 3rd with half the quarter over. 5th Herro shot, fakes a 3, drives in and misses an uncontested floater from just inside the foul line. He subs out and comes back with a little bit of time left in the 3rd and gets an assist by passing to Jaquez Jr who hits a 3. The plays for the 3rd are here... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q3
4th quarter!
Spoiler:
1st Herro shot, seeing Embiid near the basket he decides to get past Hield to try to make a layup over a contesting Embiid, it misses, horrific shot decision. Herro drives left and basically throws a tough sneaky pass out of bounds instead of Jaquez Jr. 2nd Herro shot, yeah this made me mad, score tied Herro fakes a 3 and gets a defender up, relocates to shoot a 3 and draws Hield over to contest leaving Highsmith and Jaquez Jr completely wide open. Herro misses the shot. If he were hitting that's one thing for a good shooter to take that shot but that's not the case, so get the ball to the open players. Herro gets 2 foul shots and makes both unlike Martin earlier in the 2nd half. 3rd Herro shot, a nice handoff from Highsmith who fakes a screen on Hield, Herro lines up and hits the 3 with basically no contest from Hield. 4th Herro shot of the quarter, the defense screws up and leaves Herro wide open, he has to take that shot which is fine but he misses. 5th Herro shot, he gets by Hield a stops and makes a floater putting Miami up by 1 with just under 5 minutes left. 6th Herro shot not available but is a step back miss by Herro. 7th Herro shot he shakes loose from Oubre and makes a nice midrange jumper. 8th Herro shot, Herro brings the ball up, Bam sets a screen and Herro takes and makes a 3, what's odd is that Embiid could have contested it but didn't and went to get in position for a rebound. This does put Miami up by 1 with 2:13 left in the game. Next for him is the Herro backcourt violation, Batum didn't have to touch him for him to go into the backcourt, his momentum in that small amount of space made him step over the line. Not too angry about that other than it was a dumb play by both Jaquez Jr and Herro, for whatever reason Jaquez Jr decided to take one dribble to hand off the ball to Herro so he couldn't move anymore and Herro decided to make a hard turn so he could attack with the ball vs just getting the ball and setting up the offense, there was 12 seconds left on the shot clock still. 9th Herro shot, Bam sets a screen, Herro doesn't use the screen and tries to get a 3 up to his right and has it blocked by Batum, there was 15 seconds left on he shot clock, 27 seconds left in the game and Miami was only down by 3. Which leads to Highsmith fouling Maxey for 2 FTs putting Philly up by 5. GREAT PLAY BY HERRO, he is able to get Batum to foul him before the ball is inbounded and gets a FT that he makes. 10th 4th quarter shot by Herro, down by 4, Highsmith gets a rebound passes out to a wide open Herro with 3.5 seconds left, he fakes the shot with Batum closing out (was a chance to make a 3 and get a foul or get 3 FTs but I think Batum's block was still in his head), then relocates and shoots a 3 with 2 seconds and makes it leaving .3 seconds to lose by one. Here's those 4th quarter plays...
Yikes--Spo has to look in the mirror on that one. Stuck with it too long. Zone works in doses. Not as the baseline.
Ya they weren't hitting shots in the first half but we failed to get the separation we should of had. Then Spo stuck with it way too long after the shots started falling he just let it keep happening...
Yikes--Spo has to look in the mirror on that one. Stuck with it too long. Zone works in doses. Not as the baseline.
Ya they weren't hitting shots in the first half but we failed to get the separation we should of had. Then Spo stuck with it way too long after the shots started falling he just let it keep happening...
Well, Miami also had a hurt Butler in that 2nd half zone, in the first half he was shooting lanes and creating some chaos, not so much in the 2nd half. Spoelstra should have said you're done Jimmy, you're not giving us anything so come over here, sit down and cheer on your team to pull this game out.
Ok, BROTH333333333333R, I'll play your disingenuous numberzzz game. Let's compare his shots against the team as a whole last night, as well as the team's per-game averages from last year's playoff run and this year's regular season.
Not being disingenuous at all, I've been saying this for YEARS now and it's not because he's young because I actually like Jovic and Jaquez Jr, had no problem with Bam either early on. Herro is someone who has stuck out to me as someone who doesn't contribute to winning, the previous younger players I've had somewhat the same issues with are Ben Simmons in Philly, Wiggins and Towns in Minnesota. All have certain great skills, much like Herro but when put in a lead role their teams usually don't do well. Wiggins got a wakeup call by being traded but that didn't last long although he did wake up long enough to help GS to a Championship.
Conclusions:
1) Herro's shot selection by type basically mirrored the team last night (55.6% vs. 54.4% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 45.6%) and was very close to the team averages from last year's playoff run (55.6% vs. 50.6% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 49.4% open/wide open).
OK but normally when you aren't hitting shots you find other ways to score vs keep chucking shots, I mentioned this earlier in the thread and taking 27 shots when you missed most of them until late in the 4th isn't trying to help the team.
2) The valid criticism was the missed open & wide open shots (a few which seemed untimely as well), which not only hurt but jumped out and probably skewed your eye test for the rest of his game.
Nope and I could tell he was off last night which is why I decided to post his FGA and shots made early on in the game, even with Miami winning. Him hitting a couple shots late in his volume shooting act helped his number look a just look bad, not completely terrible as they were 3 1/2 quarters of the game.
edited to add:
3) Forgot to address the "7 seconds or less" part of your post, so I'll summarize it here. 24-15 seconds "Very Early/Early" (25.9% Herro vs. 36.7% Team); 15-7 seconds "Average" (48.1% Herro vs. 38.9% Team); 7-0 seconds "Late/Very Late" (25.9% Herro vs. 24.5% Team). So he took less early shots, more average shots (i.e. BEFORE they become grenades) and about the same number of late clock shots. This doesn't really paint the picture you thought it did.
0-2 feet (very tight) Herro - 3.7% of shots (0% EFG) Team - 3.3% of shots (0% EFG) 2023 Team - 6.1% of shots (45.5% EFG)
2-4 feet (tight) Herro - 51.9% of shots (42.9% EFG) Team - 51.1% of shots (46.7% EFG) 2023 Team - 44.5% of shots (46.5% EFG)
4-6 feet (open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (33.3% EFG) Team - 17.8% of shots (59.4% EFG) 2023 Team - 33% of shots (57.3% EFG)
6+ feet (wide open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (50% EFG) Team - 27.8% of shots (56% EFG) 2023 Team 16.4% of shots (65.5% EFG)
Holy ****, sure those are normally good times to take a shot unless you're missing most of your attempts which if that's the case you should either continue to try to find an easy shot to see the ball go through the basket or let the offense keep trying to generate a look.
I guess I'll once again reiterate I don't think Herro is trash, he has some really nice qualities to him but shot selection is not one of them and it dramatically hurts his scoring efficiency and as his FGA climb so does the wasted offensive possessions for Miami. Herro could be really good offensively if he just didn't take so many ill-advised shots.
NBA.com doesn't have the shots videos up connected to the boxscore (at the time I'm writing this) but it does for the play by play.
4th shot, a catch and shoot 3pt shot while moving and with a player close enough to contest and with 20 seconds on the shot clock, this shot was the first one that started to bother me and made me wonder, is he going to be chucking shots all game? We're less than 7 minutes in the game with 4 shots, a TO trying to create a shot attempt and a 2nd TO doing I don't know what.
5th shot, 1 minute later, this is now the 6th time he's shot or tried to get a shot off in less than 8 minutes, he goes baseline which should be a good shot but Embiid closes out on him and contests the shot but Herro does makes the shot with a small fade away over him, that's a pretty difficult shot to going over Embiid and I'm sensing he's decided he's going to take a ton of shots no matter what, he's looking to prove himself.
Here's Herro's first assist (I dislike plays like this counted as assists, the pass was ordinary, Martin made the moves to create a shot), Herro passes to Martin behind the 3pt line and then Martin attacks the basket after catching the ball and makes a layup/shot fading/falling away from the basket.
6th FGA, a fast break with one guy who could contest him back and yet he still tried to make the layup with a double clutched attempt getting blocked by Oubre.
7th FGA (8th attempt so far), the shot was an attacking push shot, it was a good play overall but to do it he had to split 2 defenders and shoot over Embiid, like I said good play but it was forced which I'm now expecting him to do and it seems Spoelstra sees it too instantly calling a defensive set and turns and takes a step to tell Butler to replace Herro, there's still a minute and half left in the first quarter.
That's just the first quarter and only 7 of his 27 FGA. Herro "could" be a good player but man does he just decide force or take too many bad shots. In the second quarter he misses his first 4 shots including a shot after he bounce a pass off Bam's head, his 5th shot he made was a fast break 3 while moving which are usually very difficult shots and maybe a shot you don't take if you're not hitting that night, but not Herro. You can see those videos of the 2nd quarter at... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q2
3rd quarter
Spoiler:
1st shot in the 2nd half possession Herro starts out with a running 1 legged floater over Embiid that misses. 2nd Herro shot was also a miss from an open 3 off a Martin drive, you have to take that shot even though he missed. Herro looking to attack gets the ball picked by Lowry which leads to a fast break score for Philly. Herro then gets a couple of assists. 3rd Herro shot, he brings the ball up, Bam gives him a screen and he takes an Embiid contested 3 that misses. Embiid was dropped back but was able to contest the shot. 4th Herro shot but this was late in the shot clock, he gets the ball, Bam gives him a screen and he gets a decent look at a 3 with the shot clock winding down, his 4th miss out of 4 shots so far in the 3rd with half the quarter over. 5th Herro shot, fakes a 3, drives in and misses an uncontested floater from just inside the foul line. He subs out and comes back with a little bit of time left in the 3rd and gets an assist by passing to Jaquez Jr who hits a 3. The plays for the 3rd are here... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q3
4th quarter!
Spoiler:
1st Herro shot, seeing Embiid near the basket he decides to get past Hield to try to make a layup over a contesting Embiid, it misses, horrific shot decision. Herro drives left and basically throws a tough sneaky pass out of bounds instead of Jaquez Jr. 2nd Herro shot, yeah this made me mad, score tied Herro fakes a 3 and gets a defender up, relocates to shoot a 3 and draws Hield over to contest leaving Highsmith and Jaquez Jr completely wide open. Herro misses the shot. If he were hitting that's one thing for a good shooter to take that shot but that's not the case, so get the ball to the open players. Herro gets 2 foul shots and makes both unlike Martin earlier in the 2nd half. 3rd Herro shot, a nice handoff from Highsmith who fakes a screen on Hield, Herro lines up and hits the 3 with basically no contest from Hield. 4th Herro shot of the quarter, the defense screws up and leaves Herro wide open, he has to take that shot which is fine but he misses. 5th Herro shot, he gets by Hield a stops and makes a floater putting Miami up by 1 with just under 5 minutes left. 6th Herro shot not available but is a step back miss by Herro. 7th Herro shot he shakes loose from Oubre and makes a nice midrange jumper. 8th Herro shot, Herro brings the ball up, Bam sets a screen and Herro takes and makes a 3, what's odd is that Embiid could have contested it but didn't and went to get in position for a rebound. This does put Miami up by 1 with 2:13 left in the game. Next for him is the Herro backcourt violation, Batum didn't have to touch him for him to go into the backcourt, his momentum in that small amount of space made him step over the line. Not too angry about that other than it was a dumb play by both Jaquez Jr and Herro, for whatever reason Jaquez Jr decided to take one dribble to hand off the ball to Herro so he couldn't move anymore and Herro decided to make a hard turn so he could attack with the ball vs just getting the ball and setting up the offense, there was 12 seconds left on the shot clock still. 9th Herro shot, Bam sets a screen, Herro doesn't use the screen and tries to get a 3 up to his right and has it blocked by Batum, there was 15 seconds left on he shot clock, 27 seconds left in the game and Miami was only down by 3. Which leads to Highsmith fouling Maxey for 2 FTs putting Philly up by 5. GREAT PLAY BY HERRO, he is able to get Batum to foul him before the ball is inbounded and gets a FT that he makes. 10th 4th quarter shot by Herro, down by 4, Highsmith gets a rebound passes out to a wide open Herro with 3.5 seconds left, he fakes the shot with Batum closing out (was a chance to make a 3 and get a foul or get 3 FTs but I think Batum's block was still in his head), then relocates and shoots a 3 with 2 seconds and makes it leaving .3 seconds to lose by one. Here's those 4th quarter plays...
I’m cracking up at the fact Bam gets blame for the late Embiid 3 when he was at the bottom of the zone and Embiids 3 came from the top of the key on late or no rotations by the guards, probably Herro if I had to guess since he was falling asleep on Batums 3s too
Bottom 10 offense, slowest pace, while having the easiest schedule in the league. This is genuinely unacceptable. Spo gotta tighten up on that end and I really don't know if he can...
KingDavid wrote:Bottom 10 offense, slowest pace, while having the easiest schedule in the league. This is genuinely unacceptable. Spo gotta tighten up on that end and I really don't know if he can...
Let Quinn go coach somewhere and bring in Dantoni as an assistant for offense.
Ok, BROTH333333333333R, I'll play your disingenuous numberzzz game. Let's compare his shots against the team as a whole last night, as well as the team's per-game averages from last year's playoff run and this year's regular season.
Not being disingenuous at all, I've been saying this for YEARS now and it's not because he's young because I actually like Jovic and Jaquez Jr, had no problem with Bam either early on. Herro is someone who has stuck out to me as someone who doesn't contribute to winning, the previous younger players I've had somewhat the same issues with are Ben Simmons in Philly, Wiggins and Towns in Minnesota. All have certain great skills, much like Herro but when put in a lead role their teams usually don't do well. Wiggins got a wakeup call by being traded but that didn't last long although he did wake up long enough to help GS to a Championship.
Conclusions:
1) Herro's shot selection by type basically mirrored the team last night (55.6% vs. 54.4% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 45.6%) and was very close to the team averages from last year's playoff run (55.6% vs. 50.6% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 49.4% open/wide open).
OK but normally when you aren't hitting shots you find other ways to score vs keep chucking shots, I mentioned this earlier in the thread and taking 27 shots when you missed most of them until late in the 4th isn't trying to help the team.
2) The valid criticism was the missed open & wide open shots (a few which seemed untimely as well), which not only hurt but jumped out and probably skewed your eye test for the rest of his game.
Nope and I could tell he was off last night which is why I decided to post his FGA and shots made early on in the game, even with Miami winning. Him hitting a couple shots late in his volume shooting act helped his number look a just look bad, not completely terrible as they were 3 1/2 quarters of the game.
edited to add:
3) Forgot to address the "7 seconds or less" part of your post, so I'll summarize it here. 24-15 seconds "Very Early/Early" (25.9% Herro vs. 36.7% Team); 15-7 seconds "Average" (48.1% Herro vs. 38.9% Team); 7-0 seconds "Late/Very Late" (25.9% Herro vs. 24.5% Team). So he took less early shots, more average shots (i.e. BEFORE they become grenades) and about the same number of late clock shots. This doesn't really paint the picture you thought it did.
0-2 feet (very tight) Herro - 3.7% of shots (0% EFG) Team - 3.3% of shots (0% EFG) 2023 Team - 6.1% of shots (45.5% EFG)
2-4 feet (tight) Herro - 51.9% of shots (42.9% EFG) Team - 51.1% of shots (46.7% EFG) 2023 Team - 44.5% of shots (46.5% EFG)
4-6 feet (open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (33.3% EFG) Team - 17.8% of shots (59.4% EFG) 2023 Team - 33% of shots (57.3% EFG)
6+ feet (wide open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (50% EFG) Team - 27.8% of shots (56% EFG) 2023 Team 16.4% of shots (65.5% EFG)
Holy ****, sure those are normally good times to take a shot unless you're missing most of your attempts which if that's the case you should either continue to try to find an easy shot to see the ball go through the basket or let the offense keep trying to generate a look.
I guess I'll once again reiterate I don't think Herro is trash, he has some really nice qualities to him but shot selection is not one of them and it dramatically hurts his scoring efficiency and as his FGA climb so does the wasted offensive possessions for Miami. Herro could be really good offensively if he just didn't take so many ill-advised shots.
NBA.com doesn't have the shots videos up connected to the boxscore (at the time I'm writing this) but it does for the play by play.
4th shot, a catch and shoot 3pt shot while moving and with a player close enough to contest and with 20 seconds on the shot clock, this shot was the first one that started to bother me and made me wonder, is he going to be chucking shots all game? We're less than 7 minutes in the game with 4 shots, a TO trying to create a shot attempt and a 2nd TO doing I don't know what.
5th shot, 1 minute later, this is now the 6th time he's shot or tried to get a shot off in less than 8 minutes, he goes baseline which should be a good shot but Embiid closes out on him and contests the shot but Herro does makes the shot with a small fade away over him, that's a pretty difficult shot to going over Embiid and I'm sensing he's decided he's going to take a ton of shots no matter what, he's looking to prove himself.
Here's Herro's first assist (I dislike plays like this counted as assists, the pass was ordinary, Martin made the moves to create a shot), Herro passes to Martin behind the 3pt line and then Martin attacks the basket after catching the ball and makes a layup/shot fading/falling away from the basket.
6th FGA, a fast break with one guy who could contest him back and yet he still tried to make the layup with a double clutched attempt getting blocked by Oubre.
7th FGA (8th attempt so far), the shot was an attacking push shot, it was a good play overall but to do it he had to split 2 defenders and shoot over Embiid, like I said good play but it was forced which I'm now expecting him to do and it seems Spoelstra sees it too instantly calling a defensive set and turns and takes a step to tell Butler to replace Herro, there's still a minute and half left in the first quarter.
That's just the first quarter and only 7 of his 27 FGA. Herro "could" be a good player but man does he just decide force or take too many bad shots. In the second quarter he misses his first 4 shots including a shot after he bounce a pass off Bam's head, his 5th shot he made was a fast break 3 while moving which are usually very difficult shots and maybe a shot you don't take if you're not hitting that night, but not Herro. You can see those videos of the 2nd quarter at... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q2
3rd quarter
Spoiler:
1st shot in the 2nd half possession Herro starts out with a running 1 legged floater over Embiid that misses. 2nd Herro shot was also a miss from an open 3 off a Martin drive, you have to take that shot even though he missed. Herro looking to attack gets the ball picked by Lowry which leads to a fast break score for Philly. Herro then gets a couple of assists. 3rd Herro shot, he brings the ball up, Bam gives him a screen and he takes an Embiid contested 3 that misses. Embiid was dropped back but was able to contest the shot. 4th Herro shot but this was late in the shot clock, he gets the ball, Bam gives him a screen and he gets a decent look at a 3 with the shot clock winding down, his 4th miss out of 4 shots so far in the 3rd with half the quarter over. 5th Herro shot, fakes a 3, drives in and misses an uncontested floater from just inside the foul line. He subs out and comes back with a little bit of time left in the 3rd and gets an assist by passing to Jaquez Jr who hits a 3. The plays for the 3rd are here... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q3
4th quarter!
Spoiler:
1st Herro shot, seeing Embiid near the basket he decides to get past Hield to try to make a layup over a contesting Embiid, it misses, horrific shot decision. Herro drives left and basically throws a tough sneaky pass out of bounds instead of Jaquez Jr. 2nd Herro shot, yeah this made me mad, score tied Herro fakes a 3 and gets a defender up, relocates to shoot a 3 and draws Hield over to contest leaving Highsmith and Jaquez Jr completely wide open. Herro misses the shot. If he were hitting that's one thing for a good shooter to take that shot but that's not the case, so get the ball to the open players. Herro gets 2 foul shots and makes both unlike Martin earlier in the 2nd half. 3rd Herro shot, a nice handoff from Highsmith who fakes a screen on Hield, Herro lines up and hits the 3 with basically no contest from Hield. 4th Herro shot of the quarter, the defense screws up and leaves Herro wide open, he has to take that shot which is fine but he misses. 5th Herro shot, he gets by Hield a stops and makes a floater putting Miami up by 1 with just under 5 minutes left. 6th Herro shot not available but is a step back miss by Herro. 7th Herro shot he shakes loose from Oubre and makes a nice midrange jumper. 8th Herro shot, Herro brings the ball up, Bam sets a screen and Herro takes and makes a 3, what's odd is that Embiid could have contested it but didn't and went to get in position for a rebound. This does put Miami up by 1 with 2:13 left in the game. Next for him is the Herro backcourt violation, Batum didn't have to touch him for him to go into the backcourt, his momentum in that small amount of space made him step over the line. Not too angry about that other than it was a dumb play by both Jaquez Jr and Herro, for whatever reason Jaquez Jr decided to take one dribble to hand off the ball to Herro so he couldn't move anymore and Herro decided to make a hard turn so he could attack with the ball vs just getting the ball and setting up the offense, there was 12 seconds left on the shot clock still. 9th Herro shot, Bam sets a screen, Herro doesn't use the screen and tries to get a 3 up to his right and has it blocked by Batum, there was 15 seconds left on he shot clock, 27 seconds left in the game and Miami was only down by 3. Which leads to Highsmith fouling Maxey for 2 FTs putting Philly up by 5. GREAT PLAY BY HERRO, he is able to get Batum to foul him before the ball is inbounded and gets a FT that he makes. 10th 4th quarter shot by Herro, down by 4, Highsmith gets a rebound passes out to a wide open Herro with 3.5 seconds left, he fakes the shot with Batum closing out (was a chance to make a 3 and get a foul or get 3 FTs but I think Batum's block was still in his head), then relocates and shoots a 3 with 2 seconds and makes it leaving .3 seconds to lose by one. Here's those 4th quarter plays...
Ok, BROTH333333333333R, I'll play your disingenuous numberzzz game. Let's compare his shots against the team as a whole last night, as well as the team's per-game averages from last year's playoff run and this year's regular season.
Not being disingenuous at all, I've been saying this for YEARS now and it's not because he's young because I actually like Jovic and Jaquez Jr, had no problem with Bam either early on. Herro is someone who has stuck out to me as someone who doesn't contribute to winning, the previous younger players I've had somewhat the same issues with are Ben Simmons in Philly, Wiggins and Towns in Minnesota. All have certain great skills, much like Herro but when put in a lead role their teams usually don't do well. Wiggins got a wakeup call by being traded but that didn't last long although he did wake up long enough to help GS to a Championship.
Conclusions:
1) Herro's shot selection by type basically mirrored the team last night (55.6% vs. 54.4% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 45.6%) and was very close to the team averages from last year's playoff run (55.6% vs. 50.6% tight/very tight and 44.4% vs. 49.4% open/wide open).
OK but normally when you aren't hitting shots you find other ways to score vs keep chucking shots, I mentioned this earlier in the thread and taking 27 shots when you missed most of them until late in the 4th isn't trying to help the team.
2) The valid criticism was the missed open & wide open shots (a few which seemed untimely as well), which not only hurt but jumped out and probably skewed your eye test for the rest of his game.
Nope and I could tell he was off last night which is why I decided to post his FGA and shots made early on in the game, even with Miami winning. Him hitting a couple shots late in his volume shooting act helped his number look a just look bad, not completely terrible as they were 3 1/2 quarters of the game.
edited to add:
3) Forgot to address the "7 seconds or less" part of your post, so I'll summarize it here. 24-15 seconds "Very Early/Early" (25.9% Herro vs. 36.7% Team); 15-7 seconds "Average" (48.1% Herro vs. 38.9% Team); 7-0 seconds "Late/Very Late" (25.9% Herro vs. 24.5% Team). So he took less early shots, more average shots (i.e. BEFORE they become grenades) and about the same number of late clock shots. This doesn't really paint the picture you thought it did.
0-2 feet (very tight) Herro - 3.7% of shots (0% EFG) Team - 3.3% of shots (0% EFG) 2023 Team - 6.1% of shots (45.5% EFG)
2-4 feet (tight) Herro - 51.9% of shots (42.9% EFG) Team - 51.1% of shots (46.7% EFG) 2023 Team - 44.5% of shots (46.5% EFG)
4-6 feet (open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (33.3% EFG) Team - 17.8% of shots (59.4% EFG) 2023 Team - 33% of shots (57.3% EFG)
6+ feet (wide open) Herro - 22.2% of shots (50% EFG) Team - 27.8% of shots (56% EFG) 2023 Team 16.4% of shots (65.5% EFG)
Holy ****, sure those are normally good times to take a shot unless you're missing most of your attempts which if that's the case you should either continue to try to find an easy shot to see the ball go through the basket or let the offense keep trying to generate a look.
I guess I'll once again reiterate I don't think Herro is trash, he has some really nice qualities to him but shot selection is not one of them and it dramatically hurts his scoring efficiency and as his FGA climb so does the wasted offensive possessions for Miami. Herro could be really good offensively if he just didn't take so many ill-advised shots.
NBA.com doesn't have the shots videos up connected to the boxscore (at the time I'm writing this) but it does for the play by play.
4th shot, a catch and shoot 3pt shot while moving and with a player close enough to contest and with 20 seconds on the shot clock, this shot was the first one that started to bother me and made me wonder, is he going to be chucking shots all game? We're less than 7 minutes in the game with 4 shots, a TO trying to create a shot attempt and a 2nd TO doing I don't know what.
5th shot, 1 minute later, this is now the 6th time he's shot or tried to get a shot off in less than 8 minutes, he goes baseline which should be a good shot but Embiid closes out on him and contests the shot but Herro does makes the shot with a small fade away over him, that's a pretty difficult shot to going over Embiid and I'm sensing he's decided he's going to take a ton of shots no matter what, he's looking to prove himself.
Here's Herro's first assist (I dislike plays like this counted as assists, the pass was ordinary, Martin made the moves to create a shot), Herro passes to Martin behind the 3pt line and then Martin attacks the basket after catching the ball and makes a layup/shot fading/falling away from the basket.
6th FGA, a fast break with one guy who could contest him back and yet he still tried to make the layup with a double clutched attempt getting blocked by Oubre.
7th FGA (8th attempt so far), the shot was an attacking push shot, it was a good play overall but to do it he had to split 2 defenders and shoot over Embiid, like I said good play but it was forced which I'm now expecting him to do and it seems Spoelstra sees it too instantly calling a defensive set and turns and takes a step to tell Butler to replace Herro, there's still a minute and half left in the first quarter.
That's just the first quarter and only 7 of his 27 FGA. Herro "could" be a good player but man does he just decide force or take too many bad shots. In the second quarter he misses his first 4 shots including a shot after he bounce a pass off Bam's head, his 5th shot he made was a fast break 3 while moving which are usually very difficult shots and maybe a shot you don't take if you're not hitting that night, but not Herro. You can see those videos of the 2nd quarter at... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q2
3rd quarter
Spoiler:
1st shot in the 2nd half possession Herro starts out with a running 1 legged floater over Embiid that misses. 2nd Herro shot was also a miss from an open 3 off a Martin drive, you have to take that shot even though he missed. Herro looking to attack gets the ball picked by Lowry which leads to a fast break score for Philly. Herro then gets a couple of assists. 3rd Herro shot, he brings the ball up, Bam gives him a screen and he takes an Embiid contested 3 that misses. Embiid was dropped back but was able to contest the shot. 4th Herro shot but this was late in the shot clock, he gets the ball, Bam gives him a screen and he gets a decent look at a 3 with the shot clock winding down, his 4th miss out of 4 shots so far in the 3rd with half the quarter over. 5th Herro shot, fakes a 3, drives in and misses an uncontested floater from just inside the foul line. He subs out and comes back with a little bit of time left in the 3rd and gets an assist by passing to Jaquez Jr who hits a 3. The plays for the 3rd are here... https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-phi-0052300101/play-by-play?period=Q3
4th quarter!
Spoiler:
1st Herro shot, seeing Embiid near the basket he decides to get past Hield to try to make a layup over a contesting Embiid, it misses, horrific shot decision. Herro drives left and basically throws a tough sneaky pass out of bounds instead of Jaquez Jr. 2nd Herro shot, yeah this made me mad, score tied Herro fakes a 3 and gets a defender up, relocates to shoot a 3 and draws Hield over to contest leaving Highsmith and Jaquez Jr completely wide open. Herro misses the shot. If he were hitting that's one thing for a good shooter to take that shot but that's not the case, so get the ball to the open players. Herro gets 2 foul shots and makes both unlike Martin earlier in the 2nd half. 3rd Herro shot, a nice handoff from Highsmith who fakes a screen on Hield, Herro lines up and hits the 3 with basically no contest from Hield. 4th Herro shot of the quarter, the defense screws up and leaves Herro wide open, he has to take that shot which is fine but he misses. 5th Herro shot, he gets by Hield a stops and makes a floater putting Miami up by 1 with just under 5 minutes left. 6th Herro shot not available but is a step back miss by Herro. 7th Herro shot he shakes loose from Oubre and makes a nice midrange jumper. 8th Herro shot, Herro brings the ball up, Bam sets a screen and Herro takes and makes a 3, what's odd is that Embiid could have contested it but didn't and went to get in position for a rebound. This does put Miami up by 1 with 2:13 left in the game. Next for him is the Herro backcourt violation, Batum didn't have to touch him for him to go into the backcourt, his momentum in that small amount of space made him step over the line. Not too angry about that other than it was a dumb play by both Jaquez Jr and Herro, for whatever reason Jaquez Jr decided to take one dribble to hand off the ball to Herro so he couldn't move anymore and Herro decided to make a hard turn so he could attack with the ball vs just getting the ball and setting up the offense, there was 12 seconds left on the shot clock still. 9th Herro shot, Bam sets a screen, Herro doesn't use the screen and tries to get a 3 up to his right and has it blocked by Batum, there was 15 seconds left on he shot clock, 27 seconds left in the game and Miami was only down by 3. Which leads to Highsmith fouling Maxey for 2 FTs putting Philly up by 5. GREAT PLAY BY HERRO, he is able to get Batum to foul him before the ball is inbounded and gets a FT that he makes. 10th 4th quarter shot by Herro, down by 4, Highsmith gets a rebound passes out to a wide open Herro with 3.5 seconds left, he fakes the shot with Batum closing out (was a chance to make a 3 and get a foul or get 3 FTs but I think Batum's block was still in his head), then relocates and shoots a 3 with 2 seconds and makes it leaving .3 seconds to lose by one. Here's those 4th quarter plays...
3rother, I honestly appreciate the time you took to put this response together, but it's gonna be tldr for me lol. Just gonna say we'll have to agree to disagree here.
powerball1373 wrote: 3rother, I honestly appreciate the time you took to put this response together, but it's gonna be tldr for me lol. Just gonna say we'll have to agree to disagree here.
Well, that sucks. He went play by play with Herro's shot selection and the in video of each play that he could. I was hoping you'd share what you saw differently from AirP on each play because I pretty much saw the same as he did.
Where's DoM? Well, he's a doctor now, he might genuinely not have time to read all that
powerball1373 wrote: 3rother, I honestly appreciate the time you took to put this response together, but it's gonna be tldr for me lol. Just gonna say we'll have to agree to disagree here.
Well, that sucks. He went play by play with Herro's shot selection and the in video of each play that he could. I was hoping you'd share what you saw differently from AirP on each play because I pretty much saw the same as he did.
Where's DoM? Well, he's a doctor now, he might genuinely not have time to read all that
Shiiiiiiiiiid I guess if a mod 3roth3r is asking, I'll try and get to it later this evening.
