What is the most you would match for Sessions?

shaolin34 · Post #16 » by **shaolin34** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:45 pm

i love sessions, but no way would i want him on a deal longer than 3 years right now. he has shown us that he CAN BE good, but he hasn't proven that he IS good, at least not consistantly. i don't think this franchise can endure another overpaid player. i'd prefer to offer him a 2-yr, $15 millionish offer so he can prove himself and cash in on the next contract (plus with redd-jefferson-gadz expiring, we'd have the room to resign him if we chose to). if a team offered him a 5-yr $40 million deal, i'd let him walk. if a team offered him a 5-yr $30 million deal, i'd most likely reluctantly accept. if he ends up not being great, $6 million+ per year is too much for a backup point guard for the bucks.

aboveAverage · Post #17 » by **aboveAverage** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:48 pm

We're paying Luke Ridnour 6.5 million to be a backup point guard. If Ridnour deserves 6.5 million a year, then Sessions deserves at least 8 million, IMO.

dedned · Post #18 » by **dedned** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:51 pm

Some of these numbers are insane. $9-10 mil? Crazy. $7mil is too much. So is 6 probably. Are we trying to have the most over paid team in the league? If you think Mo's contract was too much throwing $9-10mil at Sessions is ridiculous. By the way, as of now Mo's the better player.

LUKE23 · Post #19 » by **LUKE23** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:51 pm

DocHoliday wrote:Top 10 in the East? or in the NBA?

Umm, NBA.

Newz · Post #20 » by **Newz** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:51 pm

aboveAverage wrote:We're paying Luke Ridnour 6.5 million to be a backup point guard. If Ridnour deserves 6.5 million a year, then Sessions deserves at least 8 million, IMO.

Luke Ridnour is overpaid by about 4 million dollars per year though, he is making what Sessions should be making. Do not compound mistakes by giving players more money based off of what other players on your team are making.

Michael Redd makes, what, 17-18 million next season? Does that mean that LeBron deserves 40 since he is twice as good? No, just because one guy is overpaid, don't go insane on another guy.

Sessions is a talented young player, but he hasn't earned a big time contract... He hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Mo Williams did before he got his deal.

I like the comparison of the Jameer Nelson contract, that is about what he is worth... And I think it should be a three year deal for both Sessions benefit and our franchises. If Sessions turns out to be as good as some believe, he can get his big money then... If he turns out to just be a solid PG, we can extend him a reasonable offer.

LUKE23 · Post #21 » by **LUKE23** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:52 pm

dedned wrote:Some of these numbers are insane. $9-10 mil? Crazy. $7mil is too much. So is 6 probably. Are we trying to have the most over paid team in the league? If you think Mo's contract was too much throwing $9-10mil at Sessions is ridiculous. By the way, as of now Mo's the better player.

You're blatantly out of touch with today's NBA salaries if you think 6 is too much.

Debit One · Post #22 » by **Debit One** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:52 pm

aboveAverage wrote:We're paying Luke Ridnour 6.5 million to be a backup point guard. If Ridnour deserves 6.5 million a year, then Sessions deserves at least 8 million, IMO.

Uing that logic, and the fact that Gadz is making $7M per to be the Bucks 3rd string C, Elson should make $8M per year.

dedned · Post #23 » by **dedned** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:54 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
dedned wrote:Some of these numbers are insane. $9-10 mil? Crazy. $7mil is too much. So is 6 probably. Are we trying to have the most over paid team in the league? If you think Mo's contract was too much throwing $9-10mil at Sessions is ridiculous. By the way, as of now Mo's the better player.

You're blatantly out of touch with today's NBA salaries if you think 6 is too much.

Why? What has Sessions done? I believe you whine about our salary situation as much as anyone yet you wanna throw huge dollars at Sessions. Thats exactly how we got in this mess.

Bernman · Post #24 » by **Bernman** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:56 pm

LukePliska wrote:
aboveAverage wrote:We're paying Luke Ridnour 6.5 million to be a backup point guard. If Ridnour deserves 6.5 million a year, then Sessions deserves at least 8 million, IMO.

Luke Ridnour is overpaid by about 4 million dollars per year though, he is making what Sessions should be making. Do not compound mistakes by giving players more money based off of what other players on your team are making.

Michael Redd makes, what, 17-18 million next season? Does that mean that LeBron deserves 40 since he is twice as good? No, just because one guy is overpaid, don't go insane on another guy.

Sessions is a talented young player, but he hasn't earned a big time contract... He hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Mo Williams did before he got his deal.

I like the comparison of the Jameer Nelson contract, that is about what he is worth... And I think it should be a three year deal for both Sessions benefit and our franchises. If Sessions turns out to be as good as some believe, he can get his big money then... If he turns out to just be a solid PG, we can extend him a reasonable offer.

Excellent post.

There are too many Lukes between the board and team. Has to be at least 5. A couple of the bastards here need to change their names (not for the world community, just this one).

LUKE23 · Post #25 » by **LUKE23** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:57 pm

Also, I know people hate the wins produced stat, but I'm a fan of it (after reading Berri's work). Sessions was 9th in the NBA last year in wins produced, and I haven't looked, but he was probably last in minutes on the list as well. Please keep in mind, wins produced measures PRODUCTION over BASKETBALL TALENT.

Players above him:

Paul
Kidd
Rondo
Calderon
Nash
D. Williams
Billups
Parker

Post #26 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:58 pm

LUKE23 wrote:You're blatantly out of touch with today's NBA salaries if you think 6 is too much.

It is a new world. Everyone needs to get used to having somewhere between 20 to 30% less than what they had previously. Donald Trump needs to get used to 30% less, retirees needs to get used to 30% less, and NBA players will as well IMO. The superstars like LeBron will still always get their money. But the Redd's, Etan Thomas, etc. will get much less.

I'll bet the luxury tax drops into the low 60's by next year. The cap will drop as well.

I love Ramon but not at 5/$40. I think I'd match up to a 3/$21 deal or 5/$30 MLE match. Even that would kill me. That would be my maximum at this moment. As Debit said, we MATCH unless Ramon is willing to take something less than the MLE, like a 3-year/$15mm deal that goes $4/$5/$6 or so.

dedned · Post #27 » by **dedned** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:58 pm

Was Berri the same guy who had Alexander ranked the highest in the draft last year?

LUKE23 · Post #28 » by **LUKE23** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:59 pm

MLE would kill you, why?

Newz · Post #29 » by **Newz** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:03 pm

PGs I consider better than Sessions:

Billups, Paul, Parker, Nash, Williams, Rondo, Rose, Nelson (When healthy last year), Mo, Calderone, Kidd, Miller, Harris, Davis and Westbrook (If you consider him a PG).

He does have a chance to move up that list as he gets better and as those other guys age, but right now he is a below average player at his position when you compare him to other players.

Giving him 9-10 million is absurd right now, IMO.

JoeHova · Post #30 » by **JoeHova** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:03 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Also, I know people hate the wins produced stat, but I'm a fan of it (after reading Berri's work). Sessions was 9th in the NBA last year in wins produced, and I haven't looked, but he was probably last in minutes on the list as well. Please keep in mind, wins produced measures PRODUCTION over BASKETBALL TALENT.

Players above him:

Paul
Kidd
Rondo
Calderon
Nash
D. Williams
Billups
Parker

I did the math on this in the other thread. If he had played 35 minutes per game, he'd slide right in above Steve Nash. He needs to be kept. People are mistaken when they say he has potential but hasn't proven anything yet. He does have potential, but he has also proven to be a well-above average NBA point guard.

LUKE23 · Post #31 » by **LUKE23** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:05 pm

Billups, Paul, Parker, Nash, Williams, Rondo, Rose, Nelson (When healthy last year), Mo, Calderone, Kidd, Miller, Harris, Davis and Westbrook (If you consider him a PG).

I'd take Sessions for sure over Nelson, Mo, Miller (due to age more than talent), and Davis (contract and he's so damn inefficient). The rest I'd probably agree with.

Post #32 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:15 pm

LUKE23 wrote:MLE would kill you, why?

I wouldn't want full MLE. The full five years. Those five year deals always end up killing teams. I'd be really happy with three years of MLE.

I love Ramon, but we've haven't seen enough to prove he'll be the type of guy you win with.

Rockmaninoff · Post #33 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:16 pm

I like the kid alot, but I also think 3yrs/$15 million is more than fair.

Anything more than 3 years and $5 to $6 million per year is questionable, in my opinion. I would consider 4 years if the fourth year was a team option year. Or 5 if the last two years were unguaranteed.

Chauncey Billups was given an 5 year MLE deal once upon a time, but he had proven a little more and the financial realities are a little different now. He was also the 2nd pick in his draft, if I'm not mistaken.

Post #34 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:18 pm

I don't think the Beno Udrih type money is going to be out there this off-season.

Someone will go after Ramon, but it will be at 3-year or at most 5-year MLE deals. I do still think we need to budget the full $5.8mm salary slot to be able to match.

LUKE23 · Post #35 » by **LUKE23** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:19 pm

I wouldn't want full MLE. The full five years. Those five year deals always end up killing teams. I'd be really happy with three years of MLE.

I love Ramon, but we've haven't seen enough to prove he'll be the type of guy you win with.

I don't know how we are supposed to base it on wins when he's never played with the core of the team healthy. I think we should be evaluating him on his individual play. I don't see how a MLE deal kills us regardless of length unless Sessions bombs completely, which I don't see. It's not like we're giving the contract to Beno Udrih.