Kohl/Arena Discussion Page 71 - Study Released

[chuckleslove]

If you had a poll for lets say the 5 counties in the greater Milwaukee area. The 2 options were:

1. Minimal public tax for 20 years to help finance an arena and the Bucks are guaranteed to stay in that period.
2. No tax, Bucks leave town.

Over/Under 65% vote for No Tax, Bucks leave town.

I honestly would put my money on the over.

Yep, the Miller Park tax was very divisive and the Brewers are far more beloved than the Bucks.

[Thunder Muscle]

I want the building downtown but if you want public support, putting it out by Miller Park (if even feasable) may gain a little support. I personally am not a fan but I know alot of people outside of Milwaukee may like that.

And maybe trying to get some wealthy MU alumni to get involved as it would help their recruiting being in a state of an art NBA facility. But you may run into how to share the revenue issues.

[Badgerlander]

If you had a poll for lets say the 5 counties in the greater Milwaukee area. The 2 options were:

1. Minimal public tax for 20 years to help finance an arena and the Bucks are guaranteed to stay in that period.
2. No tax, Bucks leave town.

Over/Under 65% vote for No Tax, Bucks leave town.

I honestly would put my money on the over.

Yep, the Miller Park tax was very divisive and the Brewers are far more beloved than the Bucks.

The Brewers weren't beloved when Miller Park was built which is why it took a politician falling on his sword and getting recalled out of office for the tax to get thru. At the time a majority of people in Wisconsin could've cared less if the Brewers left. The really odd part is that despite how much everyone loves the Brewers now, I think it'll be even harder to get a new Bucks arena. Herb will have to sell and then put all that money into the new stadium along with the new owner chipping in some. There really is no reason we can't continue the Miller Park tax to help pay for a new Bucks Arena.

[chuckleslove]

They weren't as beloved as they are now, but I think they were more beloved pre MP than the Bucks are right now.

[Expat]

If you had a poll for lets say the 5 counties in the greater Milwaukee area. The 2 options were:

1. Minimal public tax for 20 years to help finance an arena and the Bucks are guaranteed to stay in that period.
2. No tax, Bucks leave town.

Over/Under 65% vote for No Tax, Bucks leave town.

I honestly would put my money on the over.

It would be close:

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/po ... ts/7416301

[EastSideBucksFan]

Even if Kohl donates a 1/3 of his net worth, which is unlikely probably, that's about $90-95M...probably about a 1/4 of the entire arena price.

Kohl can sell the Bucks (valued at $250-$275M) and then use that money for the arena.

It's really the only way this is going to get done to keep the Bucks in Milwaukee.

The rest can be raised thru private investments and lending options if he has that much to put down to start with.

[mlloyd10]

I want the building downtown but if you want public support, putting it out by Miller Park (if even feasable) may gain a little support. I personally am not a fan but I know alot of people outside of Milwaukee may like that.

And maybe trying to get some wealthy MU alumni to get involved as it would help their recruiting being in a state of an art NBA facility. But you may run into how to share the revenue issues.

You put it between Miller Park and Potawatomi

[Newz]

I want the building downtown but if you want public support, putting it out by Miller Park (if even feasable) may gain a little support. I personally am not a fan but I know alot of people outside of Milwaukee may like that.

And maybe trying to get some wealthy MU alumni to get involved as it would help their recruiting being in a state of an art NBA facility. But you may run into how to share the revenue issues.

You put it between Miller Park and Potawatomi

I have always thought it would be a cool idea to put it between those two... then you could build up more bars and stuff between them, have shuttles that run along that street all the way downtown.

I think that would be pretty sweet.

[WEFFPIM]

I want the building downtown but if you want public support, putting it out by Miller Park (if even feasable) may gain a little support. I personally am not a fan but I know alot of people outside of Milwaukee may like that.

And maybe trying to get some wealthy MU alumni to get involved as it would help their recruiting being in a state of an art NBA facility. But you may run into how to share the revenue issues.

You put it between Miller Park and Potawatomi

I have always thought it would be a cool idea to put it between those two... then you could build up more bars and stuff between them, have shuttles that run along that street all the way downtown.

I think that would be pretty sweet.

I'd be a fan of that, too. But let's face it. Moving the Bucks (and in turn Marquette hoops and the Admirals), and downtown goes on life support. It's better for the city if it stays downtown.

[chuckleslove]

I'd be a fan of that, too. But let's face it. Moving the Bucks (and in turn Marquette hoops and the Admirals), and downtown goes on life support. It's better for the city if it stays downtown.

Why does it matter where the location of the money/revenue/cool place to hang out is? The city can still get its revenue all the same. It will simply shift the geographical location of where that revenue is generated.

If the alternative is to shift the location of that revenue to downtown Seattle it would be a foolish reason to not move the arena.

[Badgerlander]

They weren't as beloved as they are now, but I think they were more beloved pre MP than the Bucks are right now.

Brewers best year was 1982, Miller Park vote happened in 1996 I believe, and the Brewers had just 5 seasons above .500 and made the playoffs zero times in that 14 years.

If we go with the Bucks 2001 season onwards, the Bucks have had 2 seasons above .500 and made the playoffs 4 times in that 11 year period.

I think the Bucks are exactly where the Brewers were at when the Miller Park vote happened. At the time I talked to very few people that cared if the Brewers stayed or left.

[KeyRabbit]

The Brewers play 81 local games and averaged far higher attendance on a per-game and per-season basis. They probably have a lot more casual and hardcore fans over a wider area, and by a lot. I don't think the situations are very comparable at all.

[bucksbrewers3]

Glad to hear but...

(I'll paste from other thread)

Only way we get a new arena is if Kohl chips in, stays a minority owner, and the new owner chips in the other part. There is NO way public money is going to fund any of this. It won't win a vote and people will freak. It needs to be privately funded all of the way and I don't know how that happens. I'm guessing a new arena will be $300-500M and Herb doesn't have that kind of cash flow I don't think. I still think this is a long shot especially with the overall fan apathy.

He's a billionaire. There is no way he survives losing money for 25 years if he has less then 300 million.

[chuckleslove]

Glad to hear but...

(I'll paste from other thread)

Only way we get a new arena is if Kohl chips in, stays a minority owner, and the new owner chips in the other part. There is NO way public money is going to fund any of this. It won't win a vote and people will freak. It needs to be privately funded all of the way and I don't know how that happens. I'm guessing a new arena will be $300-500M and Herb doesn't have that kind of cash flow I don't think. I still think this is a long shot especially with the overall fan apathy.

He's a billionaire. There is no way he survives losing money for 25 years if he has less then 300 million.

He is not a billionaire.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsumm ... &year=2010

[WEFFPIM]

I'd be a fan of that, too. But let's face it. Moving the Bucks (and in turn Marquette hoops and the Admirals), and downtown goes on life support. It's better for the city if it stays downtown.

Why does it matter where the location of the money/revenue/cool place to hang out is? The city can still get its revenue all the same. It will simply shift the geographical location of where that revenue is generated.

If the alternative is to shift the location of that revenue to downtown Seattle it would be a foolish reason to not move the arena.

When you have a city that has invested heavily and continues to invest heavily on their downtown core (see Pabst City; North End), then yes, it does matter where it's put. As much as we'd like it to be as simple as "Just put it wherever," it's not. I'd wager a guess you'd have people less willing to go to a new building on the west side than in downtown.

This isn't a "beggars can't be choosers" type thing. Location is vital. The Bucks and the city do have viable locations for a new building, and Menomonee Valley is certainly one of them. But the best place for a building to go will continue to be downtown. At least in my eyes. With so much built up by the BC already and more going up by the day to the north of it, moving one of the biggest revenue generators out of that area would put a halt to all of that.

[Treebeard]

The Brewers play 81 local games and averaged far higher attendance on a per-game and per-season basis. They probably have a lot more casual and hardcore fans over a wider area, and by a lot. I don't think the situations are very comparable at all.

The Brewer fan base is more geographically wider..... In part, the Brewers actually market to a fan base outside of Milwaukee County - what a concept! The Bucks certainly do not. They may say their market studies indicate there is limited interest in the outlying areas, but that is a self-pertuating limitation. If you don't recruit, people don't have interest in your product.

[bigdog34]

This is a HUGE PR move on Kohl and the Bucks. This week, the Bucks took a major hit in PR with announcing Skiles was going to return. It was probably the worst PR the Bucks have seen in decades! Coming out and saying he wants the Bucks to stay in Milwaukee and that he'd pitch in for the costs is a Crazy Smart PR move on his part. Kudos to Kohl and the Bucks for doing so.

Now with that said...
1) New arena goes just north of the current Bradly Center in the major lot of nothingness.
2) $75-$100 Million in Naming Rights (I don't care if its local or not...get a huge corporation to flip the bill of naming rights)
3) Kohl sells the team, becomes minority owner and commits $100 million
4) New Majority Owner commits $200 million
5) $100-$200 million in Public financing through TIF, Sin Taxes (cigaretes, alcohol, soda, fuel/oil) and a very small Sales Tax (I'm thinking .001% should get it done) as there will no doubt be improvements to the local environment and economy based on the building of a new arena.

There you go. Done deal in my mind. I really can't believe no one has mentioned the PR timing of this announcement yet. No one is talking about SKiles and the Bucks play right now...which is exactly what Kohl and the Bucks needed right now.

[EastSideBucksFan]

This is a HUGE PR move on Kohl and the Bucks. This week, the Bucks took a major hit in PR with announcing Skiles was going to return. It was probably the worst PR the Bucks have seen in decades! Coming out and saying he wants the Bucks to stay in Milwaukee and that he'd pitch in for the costs is a Crazy Smart PR move on his part. Kudos to Kohl and the Bucks for doing so.

Now with that said...
1) New arena goes just north of the current Bradly Center in the major lot of nothingness.
2) $75-$100 Million in Naming Rights (I don't care if its local or not...get a huge corporation to flip the bill of naming rights)
3) Kohl sells the team, becomes minority owner and commits $100 million
4) New Majority Owner commits $200 million
5) $100-$200 million in Public financing through TIF, Sin Taxes (cigaretes, alcohol, soda, fuel/oil) and a very small Sales Tax (I'm thinking .001% should get it done) as there will no doubt be improvements to the local environment and economy based on the building of a new arena.

There you go. Done deal in my mind. I really can't believe no one has mentioned the PR timing of this announcement yet. No one is talking about SKiles and the Bucks play right now...which is exactly what Kohl and the Bucks needed right now.

Good point on the PR move. Absolutely correct.

[paulpressey25]

I'm going to sticky this one for a day or two because this is the biggest development on the team we've had in awhile.

I tend to agree with N8 that the timing of this is not good. Right now the MMAC has been trying to get corporate support for the Bradley Center (and hence the Bucks) and I'd guess the situation is going badly, as is most efforts for corporate support for anything in the city right now. Hence why Kohl brought this up today. i.e. the Bradley Center fiscal situation is front burner even though this hasn't been reported on much.

As others have noted, the public sentiment won't be for this. I remember the Miller Park battle very well. Maybe the Brewers were 5 degrees more popular, but it wasn't by much. Here was the Brewers attendance numbers before the summer of 1995 stadium vote. The second number is the AL average attendance in those years. Things were pitiful back then and no one cared. Bud, Wendy and Laurel were running the show and they matched the Bucks cronies move for move with bad decisions. Most people in town figured that a small market like Milwaukee could never compete with the Yankees huge payroll and MLB was a rigged game.

1993 1,688,080 2,637,470

1994 1,268,399 1,843,416

1995 1,087,560 1,793,589

1996 1,327,155 2,169,949

The real question is how much money will Kohl put in? The reported $25 million he put into the Kohl Center won't move the needle here. But a $100+ million dollar contribution might (and I say might) be big enough that the ineffectual politicians around here would try and figure something out.

[Newz]

He is not a billionaire.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsumm ... &year=2010

He's a billionaire, okay?