Redick, Ayon & Smith to the Bucks for Harris, Lamb and Udrih

[Jollay]

I hate this deadline/trade because now I have to wait to the offseason to see if we can maximize our assets.

This trade is purely contingent on how good it is with what happens to Ellis and Redick in the offseason. It could be a home run with a sign a trade or two an some other tweaks and it could be a complete bust if we overpay and keep Ellis/Redick or get no return for them if they leave. At least we still hold most of our real other assets going into next year.

The potential is there to still make this into a really nice team with continued progress from Henson and Sanders and cap room around the corner.

[raysbookclub]

I'm a little salty we're on the hook for Ish & Ayon next season.


It's like having Brevin Knight & Daniel Santiago on the end of our bench.

Puke.

Ayon's next year is a team option that we can decline. Either way, he and ish are easy extra pieces for a trade.

[InsideOut]

It would be better than going into the off season and then once again not picking a direction.

Yep. Come June we are going to do whatever short term moves we think might get us the 8th seed again next year while at the same time using all three of our draft picks to select Tobias Harris and Jon Leuer type prospects so we can "develop young assets". All while Monta and Redick walk while we resign Brandon for $50 million.

So if Hammond had gone the all in this year direction and had thrown a first and Henson/Sanders at Josh Smith with the hopes of resigning him offseason that would have been better than not doing it?

I mean...I understand we're likely to screw up this offseason and mortgage our future for the 8th seed but lets wait to bitch about that until it actually happens. There's still hope that the swag twins are gone.

Strawman at its finest. Picking a direction doesn't mean making stupid trades like the one you listed.

I realize you'll always be the Bucks apologist but how many years are you going to be wrong about telling us to wait because things could work out? We will either be stuck paying Ellis which sucks or he will walk and that means Hammond traded Bogut for an Ellis rental. I don't need to wait to bitch about that fact. We will either let BJ walk for nothing or will have to match the highest offer he gets. I don't need to wait to bitch about that. We are going to be picking around 15 and history shows that is a spot you usually don't get star players. I don't need to wait to bitch about that. But you keep telling us to wait because it might all work out. I'm sure one of these years you'll get it right.

[JimmyTheKid]

The more I think about it the more I like this move. Guys claim the starting backcourt efficiency is what's holding the team back, well we just added one of the most efficient Shooting guards in the league that is solid defensively and is a pretty good passer. He's gonna take away minutes from either backcourt player when they don't have it going, and the rare games where both of them playing well he can play spot minutes at the 3, which is our weakest spot.

Oh no doubt its a good "win now" move. The biggest problem with this team is they go on long scoring droughts seemingly every game. Redick will help make sure that happens less frequently. I worry about how Boylan will handle the backcourt minutes, how often he'll go to a 3-guard lineup, how that lineup will affect the defense, and how he'll get Ayon into the rotation. Thats a lot to figure out on the fly with less than 30 games remaining.

This is a pretty good win-now move, the only problem is if JJ Walks or Tobes becomes a better player then him.

And I hope JJ walks. If they resign him, especially near the $10 mil per hes looking for, it almost assures he'll be the team's starting SG for the next 4 years. Yuck.

[LUKE23]

The more I think about it the more I like this move. Guys claim the starting backcourt efficiency is what's holding the team back, well we just added one of the most efficient Shooting guards in the league that is solid defensively and is a pretty good passer. He's gonna take away minutes from either backcourt player when they don't have it going, and the rare games where both of them playing well he can play spot minutes at the 3, which is our weakest spot. This is a pretty good win-now move, the only problem is if JJ Walks or Tobes becomes a better player then him.

Or we overpay JJ. Or we sign him to a good deal and he declines due to age. And Redick at SF?

This probably adds one win over the rest of the season as well. That puts him at around 2.5 wins better than Udrih over a full season, which is accurate.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

everybody please stop saying jj is going to get 10 mil per. if were gonna use that figure we might as well refer to jennings new contract being the max.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The more I think about it the more I like this move. Guys claim the starting backcourt efficiency is what's holding the team back, well we just added one of the most efficient Shooting guards in the league that is solid defensively and is a pretty good passer. He's gonna take away minutes from either backcourt player when they don't have it going, and the rare games where both of them playing well he can play spot minutes at the 3, which is our weakest spot. This is a pretty good win-now move, the only problem is if JJ Walks or Tobes becomes a better player then him.

Or we overpay JJ. Or we sign him to a good deal and he declines due to age. And Redick at SF?

This probably adds one win over the rest of the season as well. That puts him at around 2.5 wins better than Udrih over a full season, which is accurate.

using winscores its more like 3.5 wins

[LUKE23]

He probably won't get 10. But he's also not going to produce as well as he has this year in future years. I would wager a solid amount that this is his best season.

[JimmyTheKid]

everybody please stop saying jj is going to get 10 mil per. if were gonna use that figure we might as well refer to jennings new contract being the max.

Thats why I said "NEAR the 10 he's looking for." 7, 8, 9, 10, I don't want him as our starting SG for any of those amounts. Unless, of course, we completely revamp our roster hand have difference makers at the SF and PF positions. Only then would I be ok with Redick as our starter.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

He probably won't get 10. But he's also not going to produce as well as he has this year in future years. I would wager a solid amount that this is his best season.

hell get salmons deal tops. if he forgets how to shoot like everybody else we sign then youre right.... hed be overpaid.

[LUKE23]

using winscores its more like 3.5 wins

Yep, so 1.2 wins over 29 games.

[Scoops]

Strawman at its finest. Picking a direction doesn't mean making stupid trades like the one you listed.

I realize you'll always be the Bucks apologist but how many years are you going to be wrong about telling us to wait because things could work out? We will either be stuck paying Ellis which sucks or he will walk and that means Hammond traded Bogut for an Ellis rental. I don't need to wait to bitch about that fact. We will either let BJ walk for nothing or will have to match the highest offer he gets. I don't need to wait to bitch about that. We are going to be picking around 15 and history shows that is a spot you usually don't get star players. I don't need to wait to bitch about that. But you keep telling us to wait because it might all work out. I'm sure one of these years you'll get it right.

Sorry for citing the one trade that realistically could have happened and the assets it would have taken to make it happen. Again, what would you guys have liked to have seen yesterday to turn the franchise around knowing that Monta has no value and that every team is aware that Brandon is a FA after this year?

And I'm a Bucks apologist because I don't feel we should freak out over trading Tobias Harris and failing to make trades that weren't available? Having to resign or let the Swag twins go sucks. Picking 15 sucks. I just don't think any of it could have been fixed yesterday.

FWIW I am pro tank and hope Hammond dies in a fire.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

everybody please stop saying jj is going to get 10 mil per. if were gonna use that figure we might as well refer to jennings new contract being the max.

Thats why I said "NEAR the 10 he's looking for." 7, 8, 9, 10, I don't want him as our starting SG for any of those amounts. Unless, of course, we completely revamp our roster hand have difference makers at the SF and PF positions. Only then would I be ok with Redick as our starter.

if ellis walks, jj gets 7-8 mil per, and jennings gets his 10-11.... which is all the most likely scenarios. then there isnt a problem. we would still have tons of flexibility to go get a "difference maker".

after our 1st rounder is signed wed be around 42-43 mil....

our roster situation looks like........
jennings/ ish smith
redick
mam
ersan/ henson
sanders/ udoh

+ 1st rounder and max salary space

[Max Green]

The more I think about it the more I like this move. Guys claim the starting backcourt efficiency is what's holding the team back, well we just added one of the most efficient Shooting guards in the league that is solid defensively and is a pretty good passer. He's gonna take away minutes from either backcourt player when they don't have it going, and the rare games where both of them playing well he can play spot minutes at the 3, which is our weakest spot.

Oh no doubt its a good "win now" move. The biggest problem with this team is they go on long scoring droughts seemingly every game. Redick will help make sure that happens less frequently. I worry about how Boylan will handle the backcourt minutes, how often he'll go to a 3-guard lineup, how that lineup will affect the defense, and how he'll get Ayon into the rotation. Thats a lot to figure out on the fly with less than 30 games remaining.

This is a pretty good win-now move, the only problem is if JJ Walks or Tobes becomes a better player then him.

And I hope JJ walks. If they resign him, especially near the $10 mil per hes looking for, it almost assures he'll be the team's starting SG for the next 4 years. Yuck.

I'm not worried about the 3-guard lineup for small stretches, Redick can do everything Dunleavy does and he's a better defender and passer. The defense Luc provides at the 3 this season has pretty much been negated by him killing the floor spacing and being an overall awful player on offense.

We get to see how Redick performs for our team before giving him the starting SG Spot, I would rather go after Mayo in the offseason personally, but if we sign Josh Smith then Redick would be the perfect player to compliment him at the 2.

[jwalsh52]

everybody please stop saying jj is going to get 10 mil per. if were gonna use that figure we might as well refer to jennings new contract being the max.

Thats why I said "NEAR the 10 he's looking for." 7, 8, 9, 10, I don't want him as our starting SG for any of those amounts. Unless, of course, we completely revamp our roster hand have difference makers at the SF and PF positions. Only then would I be ok with Redick as our starter.

if ellis walks, jj gets 7-8 mil per, and jennings gets his 10-11.... which is all the most likely scenarios. then there isnt a problem. we would still have tons of flexibility to go get a "difference maker".

after our 1st rounder is signed wed be around 42-43 mil....

our roster situation looks like........
jennings/ ish smith
redick
mam
ersan/ henson
sanders/ udoh

+ 1st rounder and max salary space

You forgot Gooden lol

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

using winscores its more like 3.5 wins

Yep, so 1.2 wins over 29 games.

call it more like 2+ if it keeps ellis off the court an extra 10 minutes a game. the payoff is catching boston who we hold the tiebreaker with in order not to face miami. everybody else we match up with well enough to win, and that includes all the way into the ecf with miami.

you can undersell a win now move all you want but it doesnt mean we wont be better. if we somehow go out on even a mini ftd run.... or win a 1st round playoff series.... then this move is pure gold. we were handcuffed with our backcourt before this thing. now at least we have a real shot. our front offices goals are what they are. you cant deny for who we are, that this deal made some sense on the face of it.... both for now and next year, with how much tobias harris seemed to be working into anybody but the realgm bucks forums plans going forward.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

if ellis walks, jj gets 7-8 mil per, and jennings gets his 10-11.... which is all the most likely scenarios. then there isnt a problem. we would still have tons of flexibility to go get a "difference maker".

after our 1st rounder is signed wed be around 42-43 mil....

our roster situation looks like........
jennings/ ish smith
redick
mam
ersan/ henson
sanders/ udoh

+ 1st rounder and max salary space

You forgot Gooden lol

no i didnt. easy amnesty victim if we sign josh smith, etc and can still remain far under the tax line

[coolhandluke121]

I actually think this is a Salmons-like trade in terms of getting a guy who fits a need so perfectly that the improvement in wins and chemistry will be much greater than you would expect based on the individual merits of the player acquired. He is a good complement for Ellis and Jennings and should (hopefully) be used as such.

ETA: Assuming they use him correctly. Which they won't. But if they tried to minimize the time Jennings and Ellis are together, this could be fun.

[jtrinaldi]

I feel bad for JJ a lil bit. He is going to be playing behind 2 guys with High School educations,that never learned how to share. This is going to be War.
JJ is essentially Dunleavy, 5 inches shorter.

[-Jragon-]

Let's see if I understand a possibility: Let Jennings walk, sign Ellis 11 mil for 3 years to play PG, JJ gets 7 mill for 4 years to play SG, amnesty Gooden, sign Josh Smith to play SF 11 mil 4 years. Start Ersan + Sanders with them. Possible? or not