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Tobias Harris Question...

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Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#1 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:09 pm

..So I read an article that explained why Tobes didn't get PT under Skiles system.
http://www.bucksketball.com/2012/12/tobias-harris-and-the-battle-for-minutes/
An edited version of Skiles quotes
"Tobias can score the ball, It can't be as simple as that...It's a matter of being out there on the floor and playing within the team and being where you're supposed to be."
it goes on to say that Skiles was looking for better play off the ball. yada yada..

So the question is, did you guys get a sense that maybe Tobes wasn't playing to his potential because he wasn't being utililzed as a go to scorer more often. I'm debating with a couple of my fellow Magic fans on whether or not he's just playing with a chip on his shoulder or if moving forward we'll continue to see this production.

My argument is that playing with ball dominant guards he maybe pouted a little bit because he thought he was better than just an off the ball player, and that it seemed like he needed the ball to be engaged in games. I can't fathom why he would avg 2 rpg in Milwaukee and 8rpg in Orlando.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#2 » by Chapter29 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:16 pm

We viewed him as a PF. We had and still have a ton of depth in the FC.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#3 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Chapter29 wrote:We viewed him as a PF. We had and still have a ton of depth in the FC.

Thanks for the reply. Is there a particular reason why he was viewed as a PF and not a SF?
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#4 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:..So I read an article that explained why Tobes didn't get PT under Skiles system.
http://www.bucksketball.com/2012/12/tobias-harris-and-the-battle-for-minutes/
An edited version of Skiles quotes
"Tobias can score the ball, It can't be as simple as that...It's a matter of being out there on the floor and playing within the team and being where you're supposed to be."
it goes on to say that Skiles was looking for better play off the ball. yada yada..

So the question is, did you guys get a sense that maybe Tobes wasn't playing to his potential because he wasn't being utililzed as a go to scorer more often. I'm debating with a couple of my fellow Magic fans on whether or not he's just playing with a chip on his shoulder or if moving forward we'll continue to see this production.

My argument is that playing with ball dominant guards he maybe pouted a little bit because he thought he was better than just an off the ball player, and that it seemed like he needed the ball to be engaged in games. I can't fathom why he would avg 2 rpg in Milwaukee and 8rpg in Orlando.


It's hard to say because it wasn't so much that he wasn't used as a go-to scorer often, it was that he was essentially never used that way. As a Buck he was primarily a spot up shooter.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#5 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:27 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:..So I read an article that explained why Tobes didn't get PT under Skiles system.
http://www.bucksketball.com/2012/12/tobias-harris-and-the-battle-for-minutes/
An edited version of Skiles quotes
"Tobias can score the ball, It can't be as simple as that...It's a matter of being out there on the floor and playing within the team and being where you're supposed to be."
it goes on to say that Skiles was looking for better play off the ball. yada yada..

So the question is, did you guys get a sense that maybe Tobes wasn't playing to his potential because he wasn't being utililzed as a go to scorer more often. I'm debating with a couple of my fellow Magic fans on whether or not he's just playing with a chip on his shoulder or if moving forward we'll continue to see this production.

My argument is that playing with ball dominant guards he maybe pouted a little bit because he thought he was better than just an off the ball player, and that it seemed like he needed the ball to be engaged in games. I can't fathom why he would avg 2 rpg in Milwaukee and 8rpg in Orlando.


It's hard to say because it wasn't so much that he wasn't used as a go-to scorer often, it was that he was essentially never used that way. As a Buck he was primarily a spot up shooter.

I see. Well as you can imagine Magic fans have high hopes for him, some are reasonable while others think he's going to be a "star". I'm thinking more of a very good role player. It just seems odd that he didnt play well off the ball when he clearly can.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#6 » by trwi7 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:31 pm

It's hard to play off the ball when your guards are Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#7 » by Treebeard » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:34 pm

What I saw of Harris - He has a very real knack for scoring in close to the basket. I think he was probably the most effective Buck who had that skill, at least till Sanders and Henson improved. Also, Skiles yanked Tobias every time he had a defensive lapse, unlike some of the other Bucks, who could make repeated defensive errors.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#8 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:38 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:..So I read an article that explained why Tobes didn't get PT under Skiles system.
http://www.bucksketball.com/2012/12/tobias-harris-and-the-battle-for-minutes/
An edited version of Skiles quotes it goes on to say that Skiles was looking for better play off the ball. yada yada..

So the question is, did you guys get a sense that maybe Tobes wasn't playing to his potential because he wasn't being utililzed as a go to scorer more often. I'm debating with a couple of my fellow Magic fans on whether or not he's just playing with a chip on his shoulder or if moving forward we'll continue to see this production.

My argument is that playing with ball dominant guards he maybe pouted a little bit because he thought he was better than just an off the ball player, and that it seemed like he needed the ball to be engaged in games. I can't fathom why he would avg 2 rpg in Milwaukee and 8rpg in Orlando.


It's hard to say because it wasn't so much that he wasn't used as a go-to scorer often, it was that he was essentially never used that way. As a Buck he was primarily a spot up shooter.

I see. Well as you can imagine Magic fans have high hopes for him, some are reasonable while others think he's going to be a "star". I'm thinking more of a very good role player. It just seems odd that he didnt play well off the ball when he clearly can.


Ersan Ilyasova has been the Bucks best offensive player for the last two seasons. Incredibly, the Bucks essentially have three designed plays to get him open and they might use them once or twice a game.

Jennings, Ellis, Skiles...take your pick. But something has been wrong and the players who should be getting the ball rarely did.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#9 » by bigkurty » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:42 pm

I dont think he pouted at all. There were some rumors he would screw around a little too much in practice and not take it as seriously as Skiles wished for. Either way, who cares really? Skiles is a jag himself and our GM is so dumb he just gift wrapped you guys a guy who probably would have went top 5 in this past draft had he stayed in school. Maybe #1 even. He has already proven he can play at a high level at the NBA level at the age of 20. No one in the draft has done that. Not many people historically have done that for that matter. I think I watched the last 10-15 Magic games myself even since I was so excited to see what he could do. Now you add in Oladipo and your other young guys and it makes me think you guys are one Marcus Smart away from rolling off 50 wins for a number of years.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#10 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:45 pm

During the lockout year, his rookie season, he missed the first two months due to dehydration.

I still don't know what the full story was, but the only thing I heard was he was horribly out of shape.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#11 » by M-C-G » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:53 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:During the lockout year, his rookie season, he missed the first two months due to dehydration.

I still don't know what the full story was, but the only thing I heard was he was horribly out of shape.


There is no way he was out of shape, those that followed him on Twitter and in the paper routinely heard about him doing two a days....I'm not buying that story that he was out of shape one bit.

Now did he go out with Larry ( I think he was the other dehydrated one) and grey goose it up a night, come back try to practice and really do some damage, that could very well be, but out of shape, I don't think that was the case.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#12 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:00 pm

Look at the body transformation....pretty lean on TN.....bulked up for Bucks, but has baby fat, maybe he got too strong....leans out for the Magic

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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#13 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:04 pm

Besides dehydration, he was diagnosed with a blood disorder.

And here's more quotes about Skiles bemoaning his ball handling skills.

Bucks Wednesday: Harris ready for bigger role
ST. FRANCIS, Wis. — This time last year during Milwaukee Bucks training camp, Tobias Harris was in a hospital bed.

Dehydrated and diagnosed with a blood disorder, the then-19-year-old hadn't gotten his career off on the right foot. Throw in a lockout-shortened season, and Harris truly got the short end of the stick when it came to his NBA introduction.

So this offseason, Harris spent more time at the Bucks' practice facility than any other player and even some of the coaches. He played in the mornings and worked out at night — just to prove that he could make up for his lackluster beginning. Now, with his sophomore season set to get under way, Harris has impressed so many people in such a short time that his name seems like it'll inevitably be thrown around to start at small forward when the season begins on November 2.

"We'll see," Bucks coach Scott Skiles said. "He's got definite areas that he's trying to work. He is a three-man, and three-men are generally very good with the ball. He's trying to work on that. We know he can post people up, and he's got a good face-up shot. But being able to put the ball down on the perimeter, go by somebody, and then make a decision and kick it to somebody else, he's working on it."

Harris has focused some special attention on becoming a more complete three-man, as opposed to a tweener four like he appeared last season, and knows that there's a serious opportunity on the line. With small forward Luc Mbah a Moute out for training camp and possibly more with an ailing knee, Harris and guard/forward Mike Dunleavy seem to be the two most likely candidates to push for the starting spot.

And for Harris, his impressive offseason has definitely given him somewhat of a head start on impressing the Bucks coaching staff. Just his experience during the Las Vegas Summer League — in which he was one of the most impressive players at the entire camp — made a significant difference, Skiles said.

It's definitely been a year of growth for Harris, who is still the youngest player on the Bucks roster. He knows his career has been and will continue to be a process — he still doesn't regret his decision to leave after his freshman year at Tennessee. But with so much work put in during the offseason, Harris is in good standing with Bucks training camp underway.

"Just to be in this position now, to be able to go through training camp instead of being in a hospital bed, is a good feeling," Harris said. "I've got to keep getting better on defense and getting better with my jumper. I've just got to keep working on everything."


http://www.foxsportswest.com/mobile/sto ... agID=31085
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#14 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:24 pm

bigkurty wrote:I dont think he pouted at all. There were some rumors he would screw around a little too much in practice and not take it as seriously as Skiles wished for. Either way, who cares really? Skiles is a jag himself and our GM is so dumb he just gift wrapped you guys a guy who probably would have went top 5 in this past draft had he stayed in school. Maybe #1 even. He has already proven he can play at a high level at the NBA level at the age of 20. No one in the draft has done that. Not many people historically have done that for that matter. I think I watched the last 10-15 Magic games myself even since I was so excited to see what he could do. Now you add in Oladipo and your other young guys and it makes me think you guys are one Marcus Smart away from rolling off 50 wins for a number of years.

Well we definately feel for you guys and understand being frustrated with your GM so I appreciate the honest answers and opinions, it's opened my eyes a bit in terms of the situation Tobias was in.

It feels like the consensus is that Skiles was a little harder on him than some of the other players but also that Tobias was mashed up between Dunleavy and Henson who were maybe further along in their progression and that he really wasn't good at any one thing.

thanks again.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#15 » by trwi7 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:32 pm

Nah it was basically just Skiles. That stupid **** thought Marquis Daniels deserved minutes over Harris even after Harris had a good first month. Skiles just couldn't resist putting Daniels in and once that happened with Dunleavy as a backup Harris wasn't going to see the floor other than in blowouts.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#16 » by Chapter29 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:37 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:We viewed him as a PF. We had and still have a ton of depth in the FC.

Thanks for the reply. Is there a particular reason why he was viewed as a PF and not a SF?


Well, he's a bit of a tweener and we felt he was better suited at PF. So far that seems to be the case in Orlando as well.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#17 » by Treebeard » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:46 pm

trwi7 wrote:Nah it was basically just Skiles. That stupid **** thought Marquis Daniels deserved minutes over Harris even after Harris had a good first month. Skiles just couldn't resist putting Daniels in and once that happened with Dunleavy as a backup Harris wasn't going to see the floor other than in blowouts.


Speaking of Marquis Daniels, is he currently on anyone's roster right now?
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#18 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:48 pm

Chapter29 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:We viewed him as a PF. We had and still have a ton of depth in the FC.

Thanks for the reply. Is there a particular reason why he was viewed as a PF and not a SF?


Well, he's a bit of a tweener and we felt he was better suited at PF. So far that seems to be the case in Orlando as well.

Right. I guess what I'm eluding to is did he have problems guarding SF's?
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#19 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:04 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:Thanks for the reply. Is there a particular reason why he was viewed as a PF and not a SF?


Well, he's a bit of a tweener and we felt he was better suited at PF. So far that seems to be the case in Orlando as well.

Right. I guess what I'm eluding to is did he have problems guarding SF's?


Nope.
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Re: Tobias Harris Question... 

Post#20 » by CanadaBucks » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:07 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:
Well, he's a bit of a tweener and we felt he was better suited at PF. So far that seems to be the case in Orlando as well.

Right. I guess what I'm eluding to is did he have problems guarding SF's?


Nope.



I think he did with certain SFs, I think he got benched in the 2nd game of the year because Alonzo Gee was giving him troubles, some of the quicker SFs seemed to be his nemesis. That being said Skiles did have a much quicker hook with him.

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