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Why doesn

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Why doesn 

Post#1 » by Badgerlander » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:53 pm

http://www.bucksketball.com/2014/04/why ... play-more/
A text came through my phone around 9 PM Wednesday night:


Henson might be softer than Drake
.
Topical.

A friend of mine was at the Milwaukee Bucks – Indiana Pacers game and she had seen enough out of John Henson. To be fair, she’s probably attended more games than any other friend of mine, so she’s working with some experience. And she had enough. It was time for her to take a stance on John Henson, one much more firm than any I can remember her taking before.

With her words in my head, I decided I needed to ask Larry Drew about Henson after the game. He had played only 20 minutes, despite logging 39 minutes and producing 23 points, nine rebounds, six assists and three blocks in his last game. If this guy is something of a core player for the team moving forward, how is it that he’s unable to consistently grab more minutes than … Jeff Adrien and Zaza Pachulia?

“Well … he’s just gotta keep playing hard, for one thing,” Drew said after Wednesday’s game. “And he’s gotta bring … I don’t want to say a total physical presence, but he’s gotta let it be known that he’s out there besides on the offensive end.”

One thing everyone has said about Adrien, from the moment he stepped on the court for Milwaukee is that he has a “presence”. What does that mean really? I think it’s the way most of us say that he’s out there knocking everyone out the way on his way to get the ball. He is one of the most physical big men the Bucks have had in quite some time. When cutters are moving by Adrien, he’s bumping them. When a shot goes up he isn’t watching for where it’s going to hit on the rim, he’s looking for someone to grind into the ground. He’s far more concerned about other players on the court and how he can make them uncomfortable than he is about where the ball is.

That’s a huge difference between Adrien and Henson. Not that Adrien is a perfect player by any means. Early on against the Pacers Wednesday Evan Turner a spindly sort of guard with a fair amount of craft in his game took on Adrien, who was slow to react in a pick and roll. He got Adrien off balance and used his body to push the big man under the hoop, allowing for a layup. A play or two later, Adrien again was slow on a rotation and it left Ian Mahinmi open for an easy dunk. As physical and intimidating as Adrien is on the offensive glass, he isn’t always the quickest or best reactor on defense.

But he always seems to be going as hard as he can. He doesn’t seem to quit on plays. Coaches love that sort of thing. It’s what kept Jon Brockman in the league for as long as he lasted, despite his lack of skill and size. Where Adrien always looks like he’s running on 10, Henson often looks like he’s laboring up and down the court on cruise control. Fair or not, that could bother a coach or a teammate that’s committed to running through a wall with his effort level.

Drew understands they are different players and will have different experiences on the court. That being said, he still wants Henson to be more physical.

“You know, I think, with Jeff Adrien, I think everybody sees that when he’s out on the floor, you know he’s out there and it doesn’t have to be on the offensive end,” Drew said. “He plays with a tenacity when he’s out there. I know they are two totally different players, but still, presence has to be felt when you’re out on the court when you’re a big man.”

Larry Drew doesn’t expect Henson to turn into Adrien. It didn’t sound like he wanted that either. But he wants Henson to be more of an intimidator and an embodiment of intensity, the way that both Adrien and Pachulia are. Those guys slap people around, while Henson seems more hesitant to knock a player off the block or focus on boxing someone out.

“I talk a lot about the culture and I talk a lot about, even though we are a young team we can still carry ourselves in a very professional manner in a very veteran manner,” Drew said. “And guys who are playing the minutes and guys who I am relying to be leaders of our team, I want those guys to make sure every time we step out on the floor that we go out there and we play hard. I want those guys to be mad at one another if they see one of their teammates not playing hard. Loose ball or have an opportunity to take a charge or a missed blockout, I want those guys to be upset with one another and hold each other accountable.

That’s how the culture is built. With four games left, we’ll continue to try to keep things moving in a positive direction as far as u stepping on the floor and competing.”



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Re: Why doesn 

Post#2 » by Thunder Muscle » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:09 pm

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I think I have Henson as one of my more disappointing players this season. I thought he'd provide more of a solid contribution and at the very least look like a sure fire building block for the future. I think going into year 3 he has question marks and I wouldn't be opposed to possibly dealing him in the right offer before his "young lottery pick" status is gone. Sometimes he looks legit and other times he just gets pushed around, looks lost, and his free throw shooting is terrible.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#3 » by mattg » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:27 pm

He doesn't play more because he's not that good. His rebounding took a step back from last year(which was his most promising attribute by far) and he's got 1 move on offense and bad passing instincts. Defensively he doesn't fight for position and can be taken advantage of in ball screens. He can get to shots with his length but I don't think he's a starter on a good team unless he improves a lot.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#4 » by emunney » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:41 pm

He's been coasting almost all year. He's definitely not as good, but it reminds me of our tank year under Larry K when Bogut totally stopped playing defense. I don't think it makes sense to give up on him yet, but this season has definitely been disappointing.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#5 » by tski1972 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:48 pm

I'm ready to move on from Henson.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#6 » by BigDee » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:54 pm

I blame Drew.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#7 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:04 pm

I was all for drafting Henson. Thought it was a great pick. But that said, he's gone nowhere this year, and I don't think I can blame it on Larry Drew. And I don't want to give up on Henson, but am not optimistic the guy has the personal fire to do what needs to be done.

Agenda alert: This goes back to the issue of Hammond's drafting. We get really excited about these guys because we have no other options. They are all we've got to get excited about. But on crappy teams, guys can put up numbers in certain games and we way overestimate their ability too early on in their careers.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#8 » by Swan Vox » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:05 pm

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Re: Why doesn 

Post#9 » by worthlessBucks » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:06 pm

Even though he's been disappointing, I'm cool with scrapping this year's poor performance from him given the train wreck that this has been from day 1. I was never a big Henson fan, but we shouldn't give him away and I doubt we'd get equal value back. I'm cool with keeping all the young guys and adding more to our roster.

It is typical Bucks to waste a 'free' development year for Henson. He should have been thrown into the pool without his lifejacket and forced to swim or drown. Force feed him the ball, let him log heavy minutes, run him until he collapses, deprive him water, etc. We really saw very little of that. <looks at Jeff Adrien logging heavy minutes, fighting hard for his next contract>
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#10 » by humanrefutation » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:14 pm

I still like Henson, but I think this is spot on about his lack of tenacity, especially on the boards. A guy with his length and athleticism should be much more effective on the boards than he currently is. Also, his free throw shooting is an abomination.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#11 » by Badgerlander » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:17 pm

(regarding Larry Drew being named Bucks new coach) --> “@KButter5: Soo @_John_Henson_, this is awkward.”


I would agree that Henson hasn't improved in any way over his rookie season, and his level of effort, body language, etc has been really poor, but I do wonder how much of it has to do with his interaction or lack thereof with the coach. Also despite of the fact that Henson doesn't put a body on his man and plays a little soft, he is still our best low post defender at this point. So benching him because you are trying to make him something that he's not seems ridiculous. He is also our only low post scoring threat aside from Miroslav. When Ersan went down with the ankle early this season and everyone is asking why Henson isn't starting Coach Drew blamed it on match ups, starting Butler or Middleton instead, and said he wanted Henson to settle into his role as backup PF. When Larry went down and everyone asked why Henson wasn't getting time at Center, Hammond exclaimed that Henson was NOT a Center. Yet as soon as we acquire Adrien suddenly Henson is our back-up Center? WTF? Also, remember that it was Larry's 3rd season that he made the leap, which would be next year for Henson.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#12 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:35 pm

our coaches and environments have sucked. all these young guys show up here and they look like they have upside, talent, ability.... they get us excited and then go nowhere. clear talent that just doesn't develop anywhere. if anything they regress. giannis will be next. I think the same pattern effects the vets too. I think it needs to start with a coach. drew has kept the lockerroom from imploding but he is not the long term answer either... that's for sure.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#13 » by Badgerlander » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:37 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I was all for drafting Henson. Thought it was a great pick. But that said, he's gone nowhere this year, and I don't think I can blame it on Larry Drew. And I don't want to give up on Henson, but am not optimistic the guy has the personal fire to do what needs to be done.

Agenda alert: This goes back to the issue of Hammond's drafting. We get really excited about these guys because we have no other options. They are all we've got to get excited about. But on crappy teams, guys can put up numbers in certain games and we way overestimate their ability too early on in their careers.


I think Henson is similar to Tobias. The Bucks thought Tobias didn't have the foot speed to stay in front of his man as a SF and wrote him off. The Bucks don't think Henson is a physical enough player to be effective and if we trade him he'll drop a 14 and 10 average every night with his next team.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#14 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:47 pm

I guess drew is saying he's using playing time as a motivator/punishment for poor effort. I still really think he should be force fed minutes. They need to know what they have in him and playing time will tell the story.

Comments like this from drew also aren't going to help his trade value if they decide to go that route. IMO Henson has less value than some of you think. Maybe he could fetch a pick in the 20 s but maybe not. Teams might prefer to roll the dice on a rookie who they would have contractual control over for 2 more years than henson. Probably the best value they could get is dealing him for another under performing recent picks.

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Re: Why doesn 

Post#15 » by milweskee » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:51 pm

DocHoliday wrote:I think Henson is similar to Tobias. The Bucks thought Tobias didn't have the foot speed to stay in front of his man as a SF and wrote him off. The Bucks don't think Henson is a physical enough player to be effective and if we trade him he'll drop a 14 and 10 average every night with his next team.


Yeah and somehow Marquis Daniels, SJax, and C-Butt had the foot speed. :lol:
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#16 » by Swan Vox » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:55 pm

I think this picture accurately describes Henson's game:

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Re: Why doesn 

Post#17 » by MiltownHawkeye » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:58 pm

His flaws are obvious and glaring, but he has been handled very poorly regardless. That isn't debatable IMO.

I'll give him one more year, presumaby under a different coach, to show me some improvement.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#18 » by Badgerlander » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:03 pm

Swan Vox wrote:I think this picture accurately describes Henson's game:

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Yes, but despite that Henson's opponent fg% at the rim is 46.8% with the second most opponent attempts per game compared to the scrappy Zaza at 56.7% and Adrien at 51.5%, so explain that one.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefe ... tOrder=ASC
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#19 » by mchase27 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:03 pm

Shocked to hear some of this, I've actually been impressed with Henson. To the question on why he doesn't play more, simple Larry Drew is a idiot.
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Re: Why doesn 

Post#20 » by Buckrageous » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:05 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:our coaches and environments have sucked. all these young guys show up here and they look like they have upside, talent, ability.... they get us excited and then go nowhere. clear talent that just doesn't develop anywhere. if anything they regress. giannis will be next. I think the same pattern effects the vets too. I think it needs to start with a coach. drew has kept the lockerroom from imploding but he is not the long term answer either... that's for sure.

Part of the environment problem is the vets they bring in. Half their moves were to go young (Giannis, Knight, Middleton, promoting Henson). The other half was to go old and mentor the youth. Then guys like Butler, Ridinour, and Neal play like crap and have a crap attitude about the young guys they are supposed to be mentoring taking their minutes. They are influencing the youth negatively. Ive been at jobs like that. The old guys complain all the time about the company and how it should be like this or like that and other similar companies do have this and that. New hires come in and get convinced the company sucks and brings down their morale before the company does anything. They need a young leader.

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