Suns fan here, please tell me about Brandon Knight

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

MCW sucks. I get how awesome it is to trade knight but MCW just sucks. Maybe he takes a monstrous step but he's below average-atrocious in every aspect of offense aside from willingness to pass.

but we have kidd to fix him, mayo and Dudley to shoulder more of the scoring load, and a temporary reprieve where we wont have to spend any money. that's awesome because it makes the board way more fun dreaming up free agent scenarios. as long as we take the focus off of winning where it never should have been in the first place..... theres no other way to look at this trade other than as a clear home run.

[Besmirched]

I cant see MCW doing that here. Remember when Middleton was doing too much early on and got benched? No way Kidd lets him do that, especially since hes not even remotely close to the level of shooter that Knight is. Giannis and Parker both are shooting 50% from the field, Kidd didnt let them shoot much either and until just recently for Giannis. As long as he doesnt try to do too much I think he'll be a solid fit.

[ReasonablySober]

He played the exact same way at Syracuse. It's going to take a drastic shift in role and mentality, which is hugely ironic given your trashing of posters using this same argument for knight previously.

I just think people are in for a rude awakening with MCW. To be a positive impact player for us he needs to have his role shifted so drastically, in a way we've never seen from him, it's hard to imagine it working. He needs to basically never, ever shoot unless it's a wide open layup because he can't make anything else, and right now he's a guy shooting Knight amounts. Also gonna be tough for our offense having a guy who just isn't a threat. Will be interesting.

You mean where he was also the primary option?

Look, I could be wrong. Maybe he comes in and starts chucking up a gross amount of shots.

But you really see Kidd allowing that?

What's going to stop him? We just saw knight do it all year and everyone was asking why isn't Kidd stopping him? Like you said all year, not gonna change a guys mentality when he's been playing that way for years. I totally get the upside of MCW, but it entirely hinges on him transforming himself as a player into a playing style that's vastly different than he's been playing, it's a massive amount of projection. Maybe he does it, and I'd love it if it happens. I just think people are in love with the idea of a 6'6" defensive PG and it causes them to gloss over the other aspects of that player. I would have just traded knight for the lakers pick if we were going to trade him, screw MCW.

Well, Knight could actually hit at a nice clip. When he was throwing up shots they often went in. If he was shooting at MCW's rate he probably never gets off the bench because Bayless and Marshall are handling all the PG minutes.

[mattg]

I cant see MCW doing that here. Remember when Middleton was doing too much early on and got benched? No way Kidd lets him do that, especially since hes not even remotely close to the level of shooter that Knight is. Giannis and Parker both are shooting 50% from the field, Kidd didnt let them shoot much either and until just recently for Giannis. As long as he doesnt try to do too much I think he'll be a solid fit.

Big difference here. Middleton doing too much was completely out of character, he got benched, and the reverted to playing the style that made him successful. MCW's entire style is doing too much. It's not like we can point to any time ever where MCW was fitting in and playing a small role as a defensive guard who didn't handle the ball a ton and shoot with impunity. I know not everyone watches much college hoops, but MCW is literally the exact same player he was in college, he hasn't improved his weaknesses whatsoever.

And RS, knight actually hitting is sort of what im getting at. At least for his shortcomings knight would actually make shots at a solid rate. MCW gonna come here and be like a knight who misses everything.

[ReasonablySober]

I cant see MCW doing that here. Remember when Middleton was doing too much early on and got benched? No way Kidd lets him do that, especially since hes not even remotely close to the level of shooter that Knight is. Giannis and Parker both are shooting 50% from the field, Kidd didnt let them shoot much either and until just recently for Giannis. As long as he doesnt try to do too much I think he'll be a solid fit.

Big difference here. Middleton doing too much was completely out of character, he got benched, and the reverted to playing the style that made him successful. MCW's entire style is doing too much. It's not like we can point to any time ever where MCW was fitting in and playing a small role as a defensive guard who didn't handle the ball a ton and shoot with impunity. I know not everyone watches much college hoops, but MCW is literally the exact same player he was in college, he hasn't improved his weaknesses whatsoever.

And RS, knight actually hitting is sort of what im getting at. At least for his shortcomings knight would actually make shots at a solid rate. MCW gonna come here and be like a knight who misses everything.

If he shoots 17 times and makes 40% while turning the ball over 4 times a night he'll be benched, traded or let get go and the Bucks won't be making a $60 million dollar commitment. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

Or maybe Kidd (and playing with NBA caliber teammates for the first time in his entire life) makes a difference in how he performs. We'll see. But I like banking on Kidd and the player with unique physical ability and traits.

[Shaffty]

I cant see MCW doing that here. Remember when Middleton was doing too much early on and got benched? No way Kidd lets him do that, especially since hes not even remotely close to the level of shooter that Knight is. Giannis and Parker both are shooting 50% from the field, Kidd didnt let them shoot much either and until just recently for Giannis. As long as he doesnt try to do too much I think he'll be a solid fit.

Big difference here. Middleton doing too much was completely out of character, he got benched, and the reverted to playing the style that made him successful. MCW's entire style is doing too much. It's not like we can point to any time ever where MCW was fitting in and playing a small role as a defensive guard who didn't handle the ball a ton and shoot with impunity. I know not everyone watches much college hoops, but MCW is literally the exact same player he was in college, he hasn't improved his weaknesses whatsoever.

And RS, knight actually hitting is sort of what im getting at. At least for his shortcomings knight would actually make shots at a solid rate. MCW gonna come here and be like a knight who misses everything.

I saw a few quotes from MCW saying he didn't want to have to do everything but felt like he had too because of 6ers position in the league

[TroyD92]

Knight's not the best player. Lol lulzhaaha

You can't even spell superior. So lol @U bruh

Think you meant haha not haaha dumb idiot. Love it when the spelling police slip up there self. Knight aint you're best player? Please tell me who is haha you are the biggest idiot ever i think. Brandon Knight is easily the best player dint see no Middelton,Mayo,Giannis should be in the ASG. But yeay only Bucks fans know there team .

MBBOT potential here. With a little splash of Sneaky Pete.

I'm done.

[imithanos]

B.Knight at rookie contract>>> MCW at rookie contractt>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Knight at ++$12m per

[Ruzious]

I was Knight's biggest defender early in the season when almost everyone here said they hated his guts (as a player). But it's hard to say the Bucks TEAM got worse by trading him when the TEAM was 9.4 (actually another place says 9.9) points per 100 possessions WORSE when he was on the floor vs when he was off the floor.

For comparison sake, the team has been 15.8 points per 100 possessions better when Middleton has been in the game.

Knight was not an effective TEAM player when he was here. Maybe that will change if he's used differently in Phoenix - playing more off the ball. I wish him well.

[Cyrone Torbin]

Not a Bucks fan, but Knight will be better in Phoenix, by far. Him and Bledsoe make a good pair.

[AntetokounMVPo]

Kidd clearly sees a young version of himself in MCW. Look at the per/36 stats for their first two years:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... dja01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... emi01.html

Kidd couldn't shoot, got a lot of turnovers, but was a fantastic rebounder and defender for his position. MCW is playing like young Kidd, and actually has a lower TOV% on a higher usage rate with vastly inferior teammates. His TRB% is also actually higher than Kidd's.

Obviously young Kidd wasn't great, but it shows that MCW isn't a lost cause. The odds are obviously against him being as great as Kidd was, but who else would you want teaching MCW besides the player who was the best possible version of MCW?

[Ruzious]

I cant see MCW doing that here. Remember when Middleton was doing too much early on and got benched? No way Kidd lets him do that, especially since hes not even remotely close to the level of shooter that Knight is. Giannis and Parker both are shooting 50% from the field, Kidd didnt let them shoot much either and until just recently for Giannis. As long as he doesnt try to do too much I think he'll be a solid fit.

Big difference here. Middleton doing too much was completely out of character, he got benched, and the reverted to playing the style that made him successful. MCW's entire style is doing too much. It's not like we can point to any time ever where MCW was fitting in and playing a small role as a defensive guard who didn't handle the ball a ton and shoot with impunity. I know not everyone watches much college hoops, but MCW is literally the exact same player he was in college, he hasn't improved his weaknesses whatsoever.

And RS, knight actually hitting is sort of what im getting at. At least for his shortcomings knight would actually make shots at a solid rate. MCW gonna come here and be like a knight who misses everything.

Would you really expect ANY young point guard to make big strides playing for Philadelphia. He was surrounded with literally the worst talent in the NBA - and pretty much never knowing who his teammates would be in any given week. Jason Kidd came into the NBA as a poor shooter and learned to be a good 3 point shooter. I think he sees some of himself in MCW and thinks he can turn him around. MCW already has the advantage of being one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA and probably the best rebounder. If they can get him up to 35% on 3's, he'll be a valuable asset. Stranger things have happened.

[mattg]

I cant see MCW doing that here. Remember when Middleton was doing too much early on and got benched? No way Kidd lets him do that, especially since hes not even remotely close to the level of shooter that Knight is. Giannis and Parker both are shooting 50% from the field, Kidd didnt let them shoot much either and until just recently for Giannis. As long as he doesnt try to do too much I think he'll be a solid fit.

Big difference here. Middleton doing too much was completely out of character, he got benched, and the reverted to playing the style that made him successful. MCW's entire style is doing too much. It's not like we can point to any time ever where MCW was fitting in and playing a small role as a defensive guard who didn't handle the ball a ton and shoot with impunity. I know not everyone watches much college hoops, but MCW is literally the exact same player he was in college, he hasn't improved his weaknesses whatsoever.

And RS, knight actually hitting is sort of what im getting at. At least for his shortcomings knight would actually make shots at a solid rate. MCW gonna come here and be like a knight who misses everything.

Would you really expect ANY young point guard to make big strides playing for Philadelphia. He was surrounded with literally the worst talent in the NBA - and pretty much never knowing who his teammates would be in any given week. Jason Kidd came into the NBA as a poor shooter and learned to be a good 3 point shooter. I think he sees some of himself in MCW and thinks he can turn him around. MCW already has the advantage of being one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA and probably the best rebounder. If they can get him up to 35% on 3's, he'll be a valuable asset. Stranger things have happened.

I look at it like this. MCW in terms of skill level for nba guards is bottom 10, maybe worse. His handle isn't good(main reason I can't compare him to young Kidd who had the ball on a string) and his shooting touch isn't salvageable IMO. He bricks layups off the backboard like a youth player does when you're teaching them to make layups off of a full sprint. He's also stick thin and hasn't improved physically. Now those are all weaknesses that are totally independent of his teammates, why hasn't he worked on or shown improvement in them? He's one of the least skilled perimeter players in the entire league who also needs major work physically and he hasn't done so. The teammates and surrounding talent point may be arguable for his play style and mentality but the other stuff is not.

[BigO]

MCW shoots 38% from the field, 25% from three point area, 65% free throws and 4.2 turnovers per game. That's your point guard of the future. Those things don't change a lot with players. It's a new era of point guards-ones who can score. Lillard, Curry, Westbrook, Irving, Rose. All shoot first point guards. You don't want the ball in MCW's hands when the shot clock is at its end.Opposing teams should just sag off. Maybe Ennis will save this deal.

[Ruzious]

MCW shoots 38% from the field, 25% from three point area, 65% free throws and 4.2 turnovers per game. That's your point guard of the future. Those things don't change a lot with players. It's a new era of point guards-ones who can score. Lillard, Curry, Westbrook, Irving, Rose. All shoot first point guards. You don't want the ball in MCW's hands when the shot clock is at its end.Opposing teams should just sag off. Maybe Ennis will save this deal.

He definitely has clear weaknesses, but you have to consider that he has unusual strengths. He is the best rebounding guard in the NBA and one of the best defensive guards in the NBA - and defense still matters - even if guys like Curry and Irving don't play it. He can improve his shooting and ball-handling. The Sixers were 7.2 points per 100 possessions better defensively with MCW on the floor this season. Man-to-man, Carter-Williams has limited opponents to 38 percent shooting in isolations, 37 percent on spot-ups, 29 percent on hand-offs, 30 percent when curling off screens and 32 percent as a pick-and-roll ball-handler - per Synergy Sports.