ESPN Front Office/Ownership Rankings (Bucks ranked #14)

[thomchatt3rton]

I don't understand why we have to jump through all these hoops. Hammond and Co. were given a mandate to make the playoffs and they didn't more often than they did in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs and not all teams are even trying to make the playoffs. They failed. Hard. They are still around and hopefully they aren't now as involved with whatever it was that made them so fail prone.

I'm not sure I agree with your logic. Just because a team is given the mandate to get to the playoffs every year doesn't necessarily mean they're given the tools to get to the playoffs every year.

In fact, the opposite might be true.

For example, if you're allowed to miss the playoffs one year, that may give you the draft picks or the cap space to make a move that puts you in the playoffs every year for next couple years.

On the other hand, if you're forced every year to do whatever you can to make the playoffs that year, then you're on a treadmill to nowhere that resets every year- never have any good draft picks, can't plan into the future, all of the time and luck that is integral to being a good GM is compromised.

I think that Kohl's win-now mandate may be problematic in more ways than are immediately evident.

[mattg]

Hammond gets hired as the GM and is given the task "just make the team a year in and year out playoff team, you can't tank seasons but just make us decent, slightly over .500"

He then proceeds to botch 95% of the free agency signings and trades he makes to assemble the team over a 7 year period including some real stinkers like Jackson/Redick/gooden.

The highlights are drafting well relative to position but even that has some black marks. The Tobias Harris pick which is universally lauded is attached to the fiasco that is Stephen Jackson and somehow trading john salmons for a higher pick which could have instead been used on Klay Thompson or kawhi Leonard. The JA pick is a terrible awful whiff and completely missing on a higher tier pick like that is bad. Finding capable role players in the 2nd round doesn't make up for blowing a pick that could have been an all star and getting literally nothing out of it. Too much credit is given for making the Jabari pick. Congrats you're not brain dead and made the easy pick.

I just don't see how Hammond can't take a large amount of blame for the job he's done. It's not that hard to win games in the east and be around .500 when you have teams intentionally constructing rosters to suck, a few teams that actually just suck, a few good teams, and then whatever's left. Is it easier to be more successful long term by building through the draft and not have the playoffs mandate when you really need to rebuild? Yes, obviously. but Hammond could have still been wildly more successful under a win now mandate than he was with better personnel moves and decision making. I feel like the salmons timeline is a perfect representation of hammonds tenure, for every good move he makes, an equally bad one in return. Trade for salmons>resign salmons>flip salmons for better pick>use that to acquire capt. Jax. You wanna talk about the treadmill that's it right there.

[crkone]

Hammond wasn't allowed to do his job. Every move he wanted to make was countered with moves he didn't. You can blame him for not being assertive but he was handcuffed. #thanksobama

[emunney]

I don't understand why we have to jump through all these hoops. Hammond and Co. were given a mandate to make the playoffs and they didn't more often than they did in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs and not all teams are even trying to make the playoffs. They failed. Hard. They are still around and hopefully they aren't now as involved with whatever it was that made them so fail prone.

I'm not sure I agree with your logic. Just because a team is given the mandate to get to the playoffs every year doesn't necessarily mean they're given the tools to get to the playoffs every year.

In fact, the opposite might be true.

For example, if you're allowed to miss the playoffs one year, that may give you the draft picks or the cap space to make a move that puts you in the playoffs every year for next couple years.

On the other hand, if you're forced every year to do whatever you can to make the playoffs that year, then you're on a treadmill to nowhere that resets every year- never have any good draft picks, can't plan into the future, all of the time and luck that is integral to being a good GM is compromised.

I think that Kohl's win-now mandate may be problematic in more ways than are immediately evident.

What tools do you think a GM needs to win half his games? Above average draft picks and above average payroll isn't enough?

Pro scouting has been uncannily bad under Hammond. If that's not his responsibility, what is?

[LUKE23]

I agree that we need to evaluate JH based on his ability to win now during the Kohl years, as that is the task he was put with. However, I think the win now mandate pretty much negated his strength, which was drafting. Even if you hit on picks in the 10-15 range you usually aren't getting a star. He was able to land one at #15, and I think he got another one the only time he drafted inside the top 8 in Jabari. As it stands, I think he has drafted two players now that go top 5 in pretty much any draft moving forward. It's debatable how much Sanders is on him, although I'm willing to listen to the counter argument. The reality is that if Sanders has his head on straight, we are probably set at four starting spots with good talent 25 and under right now (Middleton/Parker/Giannis/Sanders). I don't think there is more than a handful of teams that could say that.

What I'm really looking at now that we have Kohl gone, is how we spend our money, and what kind of trades we target. Because JH has been terrible there in general. I think we botched the Knight trade based on picking MCW over the Lakers pick, but I'd also be interested to see how much that was on Kidd. Additionally, it was nice to see us go for youth and cap flexibility in a trade, over an Ellis/Salmons/Redick type deal to enhance our playoff position.

I think this offseason will tell a lot. We didn't have cap space last year. This year, we have nearly a max slot and we do have a max slot if Dudley opts out.

[Bucks_MacGyver]

Where is mcw drafted if you do the 2013 draft over... Top 5?

[emunney]

Where is mcw drafted if you do the 2013 draft over... Top 5?

Somewhere around there. I suspect Giannis, Oladipo, Gobert and Noel at minimum would go ahead of him, some would probably also take Schroeder and Adams, and some might take some other guys too.

[ackypoo]

Where is mcw drafted if you do the 2013 draft over... Top 5?

Somewhere around there. I suspect Giannis, Oladipo, Gobert and Noel at minimum would go ahead of him, some would probably also take Schroeder and Adams, and some might take some other guys too.

he might drop a bit more than that.

mcelmore, mason plumlee, dieng, muhammed, trey burke,

[thomchatt3rton]

I don't understand why we have to jump through all these hoops. Hammond and Co. were given a mandate to make the playoffs and they didn't more often than they did in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs and not all teams are even trying to make the playoffs. They failed. Hard. They are still around and hopefully they aren't now as involved with whatever it was that made them so fail prone.

I'm not sure I agree with your logic. Just because a team is given the mandate to get to the playoffs every year doesn't necessarily mean they're given the tools to get to the playoffs every year.

In fact, the opposite might be true.

For example, if you're allowed to miss the playoffs one year, that may give you the draft picks or the cap space to make a move that puts you in the playoffs every year for next couple years.

On the other hand, if you're forced every year to do whatever you can to make the playoffs that year, then you're on a treadmill to nowhere that resets every year- never have any good draft picks, can't plan into the future, all of the time and luck that is integral to being a good GM is compromised.

I think that Kohl's win-now mandate may be problematic in more ways than are immediately evident.

What tools do you think a GM needs to win half his games? Above average draft picks and above average payroll isn't enough?

Pro scouting has been uncannily bad under Hammond. If that's not his responsibility, what is?

What im trying to say is that maybe Kohls playoffs every year mandate isnt even a successful strategy for the very goal it was trying to achieve.
I personally think that forcing such a short term timetable would really hamper how successful a gm could be- it really reduces your chances of getting lucky and findinf the right guy bcuz he may not be available when boss wants you to make a move.
But i see the other side of it too.


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[LUKE23]

I think it limits you via the draft if that is how you want to build, but we also targeted all the wrong guys in trades and FA in terms of finding guys that significantly help the win now, and that's on JH. But like I said, I feel that vs. draft position we drafted well above average under JH, and to me, for an organization like ours, that is the most important element to the front office.

I also feel that we gone away from the "targeting vet" type moves. Our only major moves involving vets since the ownership change was acquiring Dudley to get us a 1st rounder, and a $3M per year deal to Bayless. Our only trade targeted youth and cap flexibility. So I say let it play out. I will also say the leash on Hammond is still very short as well. This offseason will tell a lot.

[PackAttack9]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12555%20...%20executives

Our GM's ranked at 16. So no surprise to us, our coaching staff and ownership are ranked collectively higher than the GM's, but not by a significant amount.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12561256/2015-front-office-rankings-top-coaches

Coach Kidd at #12. About where we expected, not in the top 10, but not too far away.