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New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87)

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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1841 » by InsideOut » Wed Jun 3, 2015 5:48 pm

soboMP3 wrote:
InsideOut wrote:
soboMP3 wrote: But this continuous "trolley" BS people like xTitan spew is like reading the JS comments boards. All a bunch of BS without anything to back it up. Cost the tax payers 3x more? Where the heck did you pull that from? I think I know. Cripes, its like arguing with a wall. Do some research on how things work in city development before you regurgitate baseless talk radio "facts".

Yes or no...do you feel the trolley will operate at a loss?

For the first few years, it won't, as outlined from the financing plan from my post above yours. Which is great. Aside from that, can you name me any public service that breaks even or operates at a profit?


I don't agree with the line of thinking that because public service (fire & police) doesn't operate at a profit that means it's okay to build a trolley that will lose money. Like you said, maybe it won't the first few years but my guess is that after that the tax payers will be paying for it in one way or another for the rest of their lives. I'd also guess that less than 1% of the tax payers ride it more than one day a year.

I agree with those that are saying the mayor isn't putting all the weight he can behind the arena. I'd like to know why. If you can give some examples that show the mayor is giving the arena project his all I'd rethink my position. So far the only excuses I've read are that he is powerless so why try and that others are telling him to stay out of the issue. I don't buy those thoughts but either way both seem to agree with the thought the mayor isn't very passionate about the issue and much less so than he was with the trolley. For this to get done the mayor needs to be out there working it.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1842 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 5:57 pm

I could be wrong on this, but wouldn't removing it from the budget basically remove there being a hard deadline? That's a major issue given how slow things have gone.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1843 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 5:59 pm

The State budget is the big fight, but we've got a more immediate fight right now with the County situation.

MJS has been running wild with this story this morning.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/305932371.html

Milwaukee County’s proposal to sell 10 acres within downtown's Park East strip to an affiliate of the Milwaukee Bucks would tie up those parcels for nine years while development plans unfold.

County Executive Chris Abele's administration wants to sell the Park East parcels for $1, even though an appraisal firm hired by the county says the parcels together are valued at $8.8 million. The lots are north of W. Juneau Ave., and west of N. Old World 3rd St.


A lot of people are now going to think that property is really valuable even though no one has touched it in over a decade. Sure, it will be valuable, if the Bucks owners build there. And part of their value proposition is doing that development.

One big positive though is that MJS just edited the story. They now say the cost is:

The arena would be built just north of the Bradley Center, with public financing covering half of that construction cost


The earlier versions of all their arena stories kept saying the arena will cost the State $400 million due to Dan Bice's crack investigative reporting that there would actually be interest due on the bonds.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1844 » by InsideOut » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:04 pm

drew881 wrote:It is precisely when we start viewing public works as profitable ventures that we starting screwing things up (see U of Wisconsin). You can try to manage loss, but axing certain projects because they don't make money, or substantially cutting them to try to turn profits is the death of public works.


Actually, it when you start spending without regard to cost that you screw things up. The examples are endless.

Nobody is saying public works needs to turn a profit. I'm saying it's about bang for the buck. I don't think the trolley gives us that but in 10 years we'll look back and see. My guess it less than 1% of the county rides it more than once a year. If that ends up being the case I feel the trolley will have been a huge failure as far as bang for the buck goes. I feel the bang for the buck will be much bigger with an arena so I'm not as concerned with that project. Even if you hate the NBA the arena will host other events. By the way, who asked for the trolley to be built? Were the tax payers asking for it because they were having a hard time getting to work or was it someone else?
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1845 » by HurricaneKid » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:19 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote: The way they calculated the growth of the state income tax is rather hilarious. They basically are taking the player salary growth over the next several years and assuming that as constant growth over the next 30 years. .


Interestingly enough, the growth over 30-years was identical to the actual growth rate in NBA salaries from 1983 to 2013.

You can make all sorts of arguments that can't continue, etc, etc but it did line up with historical growth rates. And that's during a period where inflation was coming down over time not up.

I don't disagree with the idea that the growth rates are extremely optimistic. As some have said, who knows if there is NBA basketball in 30-years or if society has moved onto something different. That said, the new plan doesn't require the jock tax revenues to cover $220 million in bonds. Only the $50 State and $50mm County portions. You can easily carry those with player revenues under the new TV contract and still have money left over.


Jesus PP. You might as well have tied it to the 1983 Apple share price. Do you know what NBA salaries looked like in 1983? I love you but this is just irresponsible and something you need to tear from your list of justifications.

I fully expect basketball to exist in 30 years. That doesn't mean much when you need to pay off these hundreds of millions which have no immediate source of payback and will have enormously negatively amortized schedules.

As has been pointed out previously, this is largely being funded with garbage. Old debts that aren't worth going after, etc. Almost every cent is problematic.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1846 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:23 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
As has been pointed out previously, this is largely being funded with garbage. Old debts that aren't worth going after, etc. Almost every cent is problematic.


$105mm state and county bonds being funded with jock tax revenues. $10.5mm incoming in 2016 versus $7.6mm of bond debt service. And that assumes zero County uncollected debts ever being collected.

$93 million of WCD bonds back by $28 million a year hotel/rental car/meals tax revenue on Milwaukee County that has been in place since 1998 and remaining at current levels. Bonds will wrap around existing bonds for Convention Center and Theater. Done all the time in finance.

$47 million of City money/Parking garage.

I'm not sure where the problematic funding pieces are here other than the uncollectible debts piece, which I've conceded above to having the State fund.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1847 » by trwi7 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:28 pm

soboMP3 wrote:Yes, and I'm guilty of it. I just need to ignore when people get their little chides in at the streetcar project, which I obviously support.


You should definitely change your support to this transportation project instead of the streetcar, because this one makes so much more sense.

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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1848 » by soboMP3 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:43 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:A lot of people are now going to think that property is really valuable even though no one has touched it in over a decade. Sure, it will be valuable, if the Bucks owners build there. And part of their value proposition is doing that development.

People tend to forget that the city-owned parcels of the Park East sold and developed quite rapidly over the past decade while the county parcels, under previous administration, would get proposals and reject them or drag their feet during the last building boom. There was even a push for the city to buy the county-owned parcels such that they would get developed faster, as the city is better at developing city blocks than the county. The county refused. I think its a bit bold to think that the land isn't worth more than $1 while also sitting vacant for another decade.

I'm not even saying I disagree with the plan to sell it all for $1, but I think people need to understand what happened with Park East over the past decade, and why it looks the way it does.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1849 » by emunney » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:45 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:The State budget is the big fight, but we've got a more immediate fight right now with the County situation.

MJS has been running wild with this story this morning.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/305932371.html

Milwaukee County’s proposal to sell 10 acres within downtown's Park East strip to an affiliate of the Milwaukee Bucks would tie up those parcels for nine years while development plans unfold.

County Executive Chris Abele's administration wants to sell the Park East parcels for $1, even though an appraisal firm hired by the county says the parcels together are valued at $8.8 million. The lots are north of W. Juneau Ave., and west of N. Old World 3rd St.


A lot of people are now going to think that property is really valuable even though no one has touched it in over a decade. Sure, it will be valuable, if the Bucks owners build there. And part of their value proposition is doing that development.


Yeah, I feel like that valuation doesn't adequately account for how slowly that land has been developing. If we can get someone to actually develop that land in a decade, the benefit to the city could be absolutely enormous. I would only ask that they keep the contracts local.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1850 » by crkone » Wed Jun 3, 2015 6:47 pm

The land is also extremely hard to develop with the concrete piers and other debris from the freeway underground.

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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1851 » by midranger » Wed Jun 3, 2015 7:01 pm

trwi7 wrote:
soboMP3 wrote:Yes, and I'm guilty of it. I just need to ignore when people get their little chides in at the streetcar project, which I obviously support.


You should definitely change your support to this transportation project instead of the streetcar, because this one makes so much more sense.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B33XFzLzCAE[/youtube]


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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1852 » by HurricaneKid » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:09 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
As has been pointed out previously, this is largely being funded with garbage. Old debts that aren't worth going after, etc. Almost every cent is problematic.


$105mm state and county bonds being funded with jock tax revenues. $10.5mm incoming in 2016 versus $7.6mm of bond debt service. And that assumes zero County uncollected debts ever being collected.

$93 million of WCD bonds back by $28 million a year hotel/rental car/meals tax revenue on Milwaukee County that has been in place since 1998 and remaining at current levels. Bonds will wrap around existing bonds for Convention Center and Theater. Done all the time in finance.

$47 million of City money/Parking garage.

I'm not sure where the problematic funding pieces are here other than the uncollectible debts piece, which I've conceded above to having the State fund.


You are cheating again. The original plan was using just the tax revenue increases. So you are either A) taking 6M from state tax rolls or B) going with a neg am loan (you owe 2M more after Y1 than you started with).

93M in bonds backed by existing taxes that were set to expire in a few years. Politicians find it easier to extend taxes than set up new ones but when you extend out taxes that were set to expire, you are simply taxing and making hospitality in Milwaukee more expensive. It decidedly impacts the city's ability to bring in tourism dollars.

The ask of the city keeps going up. People keep saying "just TIF it!" but it has already been "TIFed". The Bucks are not only getting the lot free, with the infrastructure built up for them, they are also getting a lifetime of no property taxes, etc. Now they want the entire area (for free) just in case they figure out they can build around the arena to put area bars like Goolsby's out of business. And people can't figure out why the Mayor isn't using his political capital to get this done? There is nothing left for the city in all this. Nevermind the poison pills the Governor has been dropping on Madison and Milw of late.

I'm not saying I don't want it done. I'm just saying LED are making out like bandits in all of this. Putting up 150M themselves? I think that is the real stretch in all this. They haven't even allowed naming rights on the table.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1853 » by midranger » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:37 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
I'm not saying I don't want it done. I'm just saying LED are making out like bandits in all of this. Putting up 150M themselves? I think that is the real stretch in all this. They haven't even allowed naming rights on the table.

So much this.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1854 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:42 pm

How much of this do people believe is tied to pressure from the other NBA owners? Or owners in other sports? You know it's in their best interests if the public money gravy train continues.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1855 » by breakchains » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:45 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:A majority of GOP Senate want this out of the budget

A majority of GOP senators want to pull from the state budget bill a proposal to put public money toward a new arena for the Milwaukee Bucks, the latest sign of the challenges the deal faces.

This obstacle doesn't mean the Bucks proposal is dead or even out of the state budget proposal. One alternative being talked about by GOP senators, for instance, is adding a new Bucks proposal to the budget as an amendment on the Senate floor, a strategy that they hope could draw some Democratic votes from Milwaukee lawmakers for a stadium deal.

The turmoil among Republicans over the Bucks arena and funding for road building in the state has delayed votes in the budget committee for at least a week on the state's tax and spending plan.

Sen. Tom Tiffany of Hazelhurst, a member of the Joint Finance Committee, was typical of the cautious criticism being voiced by many of his GOP colleagues in interviews with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, which has reached out to all Republican senators this week. Tiffany said he "hadn't ruled out supporting" the Bucks arena, but would prefer to see it taken out of the budget.

"In a perfect world, yes, it would be better to see it out of the budget," he said. "But is that the way it plays out?"

Myranda Tanck, a spokeswoman for Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau), said Wednesday that he hadn't ruled out the possibility of removing the Bucks proposal from the budget bill. But Tanck emphasized that no deal has been announced publicly and that GOP leaders are still holding out hope of convincing their colleagues once all the details of an agreement are made known.

A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Jennifer Shilling (D-La Crosse) had no immediate comment.

On Tuesday, Kit Beyer, a spokeswoman for Assembly Speaker Robin Vos (R-Rochester), said that the "negotiations continue over whether the arena would be taken up as a separate bill."

Republicans control the Senate 19-14. Based on the details of the Bucks plan as reported in the Journal Sentinel, 10 of those GOP senators want to see it removed from the budget, with some flatly demanding it and others saying it's simply the best option.

Those senators are: Senate President Mary Lazich of New Berlin, Rob Cowles of Allouez, Sheila Harsdorf of River Falls, Devin LeMahieu of Oostburg, Steve Nass of Whitewater, Roger Roth of Appleton, Van Wanggaard of Racine, Jerry Petrowski of Marathon, Terry Moulton of Chippewa Falls, and Tiffany.

"I would see prefer seeing it as separate legislation coming out of the budget," said Harsdorf, another member of the powerful budget committee.

"I'd rather have it out than in," Roth agreed.

An 11th GOP senator, Paul Farrow of Pewaukee, wants to have the full Senate vote on the Bucks proposal, either as separate legislation or as a budget amendment. That second strategy might give Fitzgerald and other GOP leaders a way to escape the tight spot they find themselves in, Republican sources said.

The Joint Finance Committee has not yet taken up the arena financing proposal that Gov. Scott Walker put into his budget bill, but it's been clear for weeks that it doesn't have enough support to pass the Legislature. GOP leaders and the Bucks have been privately negotiating an alternative.

Sources have told the Journal Sentinel that under that new plan the downtown arena would cost the public at least $400 million — including borrowing and interest, taxes, debt collections and other forms of public financing.

If the budget committee puts that alternative into the budget, rank-and-file Republicans and Democrats in the Senate and Assembly would not have to vote on the Bucks plan as an individual item, only on the budget as a whole.

All Democrats are certain to vote against the GOP budget, giving them an easy choice. Republican lawmakers opposed to the Bucks plan would have to decide whether its inclusion was enough to make them vote against their party's budget.

In the Senate, only two Republicans can vote against the budget and still have it pass. Nass is already considered a difficult yes vote for Fitzgerald.

But if the Bucks deal were added as an amendment on the Senate floor, some Milwaukee Democrats might be willing to vote for that proposal. That would potentially give some vulnerable Republican senators the ability to vote against the proposal specifically and then vote for the budget, once it was included.

But at this point, that's merely the speculation of statehouse insiders.

Rep. David Bowen (D-Milwaukee) and Sen. Chris Larson (D-Milwaukee) gave little encourage to the idea Tuesday, saying that they have been in only one meeting with the Bucks and no meetings with Republicans over the still-private negotiations over the deal. Both men said they're not ready to vote for an agreement without seeing it and that forcing a floor vote on the proposal might well kill it.

Another Milwaukee Democrat, Rep. Evan Goyke, questioned whether Senate Republicans would be willing to pull the Bucks proposal out of the budget, even if a majority wants that.

"I'll believe in the solidity of their spine when I see it," he said.


And yet xTitan and the other partisans keep trying to pin the entire thing on Barrett.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1856 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:45 pm

HurricaneKid wrote: you are simply taxing and making hospitality in Milwaukee more expensive. It decidedly impacts the city's ability to bring in tourism dollars.


A thought on that. Has anyone here ever said "Yeah, I'm not going to Orlando, Minneapolis, NY, Chicago, Phoenix, Houston, etc" because the City has a hotel/rental car tax? All those cities have that stuff and it's through the roof.

If we aren't drawing enough convention dollars it is related to the climate and city attractions not the traveler taxes.

Great article from WSJ on this.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723 ... 1344521076

Excerpt related to Chicago:

Yet hotel companies say higher taxes don't have a big effect on bookings. That is one reason the taxes keep coming: Cities, counties and states have so far been able to raise more money without crimping business or angering local voters.

"We really don't see an impact on business due to hotel taxes," said Marriott spokeswoman Laurie Goldstein.

When Chicago raised its portion of the hotel tax to 4.5% from 3.5% earlier this year, Mayor Rahm Emanuel predicted continued increases in tourism—and so far he appears to be correct. Chicago hotel occupancy rates are up slightly so far this year, according to Smith Travel Research. The tax increase "will help increase revenue that supports tourism, not deters it," the mayor said in a statement at the time. The city didn't respond to requests for additional comment.

The hotel-tax increase in Chicago, which had the highest total tax burden for travelers of any city in the survey, raised the total hotel levy there to 16.4%. That includes a 2% tax to help pay for the Chicago White Sox stadium, 2.5% to help pay for the McCormick Place convention center and state taxes as well. Chicago's rental-car tax is even higher. The tax on a $56, one-day car rental at the airport raises the cost by 23%.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1857 » by midranger » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:46 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:How much of this do people believe is tied to pressure from the other NBA owners? Or owners in other sports? You know it's in their best interests if the public money gravy train continues.

I'm sure quite a bit. I notice that Sacto got the same ultimatum that we got. The NBA definitely won't feel bad about bullying their small market teams. Makes me wonder how the citizens of OKC will feel about this issue when the NBA comes calling in 7 years. After all their arena is 13 years old now.

My guess is, they'll be less excited about paying for a(nother) arena.
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1858 » by midranger » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:48 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote: you are simply taxing and making hospitality in Milwaukee more expensive. It decidedly impacts the city's ability to bring in tourism dollars.


A thought on that. Has anyone here ever said "Yeah, I'm not going to Orlando, Minneapolis, NY, Chicago, Phoenix, Houston, etc" because the City has a hotel/rental car tax? All those cities have that stuff and it's through the roof.

If we aren't drawing enough convention dollars it is related to the climate and city attractions not the traveler taxes.

Great article from WSJ on this.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723 ... 1344521076

Excerpt related to Chicago:

Yet hotel companies say higher taxes don't have a big effect on bookings. That is one reason the taxes keep coming: Cities, counties and states have so far been able to raise more money without crimping business or angering local voters.

"We really don't see an impact on business due to hotel taxes," said Marriott spokeswoman Laurie Goldstein.

When Chicago raised its portion of the hotel tax to 4.5% from 3.5% earlier this year, Mayor Rahm Emanuel predicted continued increases in tourism—and so far he appears to be correct. Chicago hotel occupancy rates are up slightly so far this year, according to Smith Travel Research. The tax increase "will help increase revenue that supports tourism, not deters it," the mayor said in a statement at the time. The city didn't respond to requests for additional comment.

The hotel-tax increase in Chicago, which had the highest total tax burden for travelers of any city in the survey, raised the total hotel levy there to 16.4%. That includes a 2% tax to help pay for the Chicago White Sox stadium, 2.5% to help pay for the McCormick Place convention center and state taxes as well. Chicago's rental-car tax is even higher. The tax on a $56, one-day car rental at the airport raises the cost by 23%.


Would anyone ever say, "Yeah, I love the Bucks (or Marquette, or The Stones), but I refuse to go to the game because there's a few dollar ticket surcharge to help pay for their arena?"
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1859 » by xTitan » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:52 pm

breakchains wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:A majority of GOP Senate want this out of the budget

A majority of GOP senators want to pull from the state budget bill a proposal to put public money toward a new arena for the Milwaukee Bucks, the latest sign of the challenges the deal faces.

This obstacle doesn't mean the Bucks proposal is dead or even out of the state budget proposal. One alternative being talked about by GOP senators, for instance, is adding a new Bucks proposal to the budget as an amendment on the Senate floor, a strategy that they hope could draw some Democratic votes from Milwaukee lawmakers for a stadium deal.

The turmoil among Republicans over the Bucks arena and funding for road building in the state has delayed votes in the budget committee for at least a week on the state's tax and spending plan.

Sen. Tom Tiffany of Hazelhurst, a member of the Joint Finance Committee, was typical of the cautious criticism being voiced by many of his GOP colleagues in interviews with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, which has reached out to all Republican senators this week. Tiffany said he "hadn't ruled out supporting" the Bucks arena, but would prefer to see it taken out of the budget.

"In a perfect world, yes, it would be better to see it out of the budget," he said. "But is that the way it plays out?"

Myranda Tanck, a spokeswoman for Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau), said Wednesday that he hadn't ruled out the possibility of removing the Bucks proposal from the budget bill. But Tanck emphasized that no deal has been announced publicly and that GOP leaders are still holding out hope of convincing their colleagues once all the details of an agreement are made known.

A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Jennifer Shilling (D-La Crosse) had no immediate comment.

On Tuesday, Kit Beyer, a spokeswoman for Assembly Speaker Robin Vos (R-Rochester), said that the "negotiations continue over whether the arena would be taken up as a separate bill."

Republicans control the Senate 19-14. Based on the details of the Bucks plan as reported in the Journal Sentinel, 10 of those GOP senators want to see it removed from the budget, with some flatly demanding it and others saying it's simply the best option.

Those senators are: Senate President Mary Lazich of New Berlin, Rob Cowles of Allouez, Sheila Harsdorf of River Falls, Devin LeMahieu of Oostburg, Steve Nass of Whitewater, Roger Roth of Appleton, Van Wanggaard of Racine, Jerry Petrowski of Marathon, Terry Moulton of Chippewa Falls, and Tiffany.

"I would see prefer seeing it as separate legislation coming out of the budget," said Harsdorf, another member of the powerful budget committee.

"I'd rather have it out than in," Roth agreed.

An 11th GOP senator, Paul Farrow of Pewaukee, wants to have the full Senate vote on the Bucks proposal, either as separate legislation or as a budget amendment. That second strategy might give Fitzgerald and other GOP leaders a way to escape the tight spot they find themselves in, Republican sources said.

The Joint Finance Committee has not yet taken up the arena financing proposal that Gov. Scott Walker put into his budget bill, but it's been clear for weeks that it doesn't have enough support to pass the Legislature. GOP leaders and the Bucks have been privately negotiating an alternative.

Sources have told the Journal Sentinel that under that new plan the downtown arena would cost the public at least $400 million — including borrowing and interest, taxes, debt collections and other forms of public financing.

If the budget committee puts that alternative into the budget, rank-and-file Republicans and Democrats in the Senate and Assembly would not have to vote on the Bucks plan as an individual item, only on the budget as a whole.

All Democrats are certain to vote against the GOP budget, giving them an easy choice. Republican lawmakers opposed to the Bucks plan would have to decide whether its inclusion was enough to make them vote against their party's budget.

In the Senate, only two Republicans can vote against the budget and still have it pass. Nass is already considered a difficult yes vote for Fitzgerald.

But if the Bucks deal were added as an amendment on the Senate floor, some Milwaukee Democrats might be willing to vote for that proposal. That would potentially give some vulnerable Republican senators the ability to vote against the proposal specifically and then vote for the budget, once it was included.

But at this point, that's merely the speculation of statehouse insiders.

Rep. David Bowen (D-Milwaukee) and Sen. Chris Larson (D-Milwaukee) gave little encourage to the idea Tuesday, saying that they have been in only one meeting with the Bucks and no meetings with Republicans over the still-private negotiations over the deal. Both men said they're not ready to vote for an agreement without seeing it and that forcing a floor vote on the proposal might well kill it.

Another Milwaukee Democrat, Rep. Evan Goyke, questioned whether Senate Republicans would be willing to pull the Bucks proposal out of the budget, even if a majority wants that.

"I'll believe in the solidity of their spine when I see it," he said.


And yet xTitan and the other partisans keep trying to pin the entire thing on Barrett.


This should not be part of the state budget, this should be a bi-partisan vote where milwaukee legislators, most of which are liberal should vote yes for any funding. How does this change that Barrett has done absolutely nothing?
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Re: New Bucks Arena Thread (Bucks Seek Entire Park East pg 87) 

Post#1860 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jun 3, 2015 8:52 pm

midranger wrote:Would anyone ever say, "I love the Bucks (or Marquette, or The Stones), but I refuse to go to the game because there's a few dollar ticket surcharge to pay for their arena?"


Apples and Oranges.

Tax for hotel rooms/rental cars/etc far more inelastic on behalf of business travelers or visitors as to what factors they base their decision on to come to Milwaukee. They don't base their travel decisions on the hotel tax.

The actual price of a ticket to a sporting event is far more elastic as it relates to demand. People do everyday make decisions whether or not to attend something based on price.

And most of the hotel/rental car tax is paid by non-Wisconsin residents. I'm ok with that.
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