PG Thread (Raptors) - Tank keeps rolling

[TroyD92]

I don't know how anyone can watch Monroe play and think, yeah that's a good player right there.

[Baddy Chuck]

Monroe's the 6th man you bring in to demolish second units and maybe ride him late if he's got it going. Problem is he's close to 7 foot so he won't play that role. Obviously we're not anywhere near OKC but ideally he's seeing the role and minutes a guy like Kanter is.

[midranger]

I'm not mad we lost. I'm mad that we are losing while our two franchise players are putting up 13, 7 and 4 combined while the wolves franchise guys are putting up 30, 7, 2 combined at the half.

I honestly thought we had a better future than the wolves going into this season. Maybe I shouldn't have thought that way so it's my fault for the expectations.


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The biggest part of the problem is the Wolves future franchise players are just head and shoulders better than ours.

[Baddy Chuck]

I'm not mad we lost. I'm mad that we are losing while our two franchise players are putting up 13, 7 and 4 combined while the wolves franchise guys are putting up 30, 7, 2 combined at the half.

I honestly thought we had a better future than the wolves going into this season. Maybe I shouldn't have thought that way so it's my fault for the expectations.


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The biggest part of the problem is the Wolves future franchise players are just head and shoulders better than ours.

Honestly don't think Giannis is much behind Wiggins at all if we just forced it to him. Towns looks like the best prospect of the bunch by a wide margin. I dunno what to think about Jabari, talk to me in 3-4 months there.

[drew881]

If only Jabari had JOB's jumper. That is how bizarre this season has become.

[midranger]

I'm not mad we lost. I'm mad that we are losing while our two franchise players are putting up 13, 7 and 4 combined while the wolves franchise guys are putting up 30, 7, 2 combined at the half.

I honestly thought we had a better future than the wolves going into this season. Maybe I shouldn't have thought that way so it's my fault for the expectations.


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The biggest part of the problem is the Wolves future franchise players are just head and shoulders better than ours.

Honestly don't think Giannis is much behind Wiggins at all if we just forced it to him. Towns looks like the best prospect of the bunch by a wide margin. I dunno what to think about Jabari, talk to me in 3-4 months there.

I see what you're saying but Giannis is out number one guy. Only fair to compare him to their #1 guy KAT who is so much better. Wiggins is their number two guy and runs circles around Jabari.

[Buckrageous]

the entire game, was setup for Monroe and Middleton
80% if not more of they plays were set up for them

Jabari got the ball in the paint a few times,
from doubles to others, and from cutting
he didnt finish
thought he could have gotten some fouls called for him



if u watched the game, you could see how 0 plays were ran for Giannis and Parker
so i dont want to hear about how Giannis went into his shell, or didnt come out aggressive
i can see if u want to complain a bout Parker not finishing near the rim,
but 0 plays were ran for him

How do you explain Jabari and Giannis combining for 6 rebounds in 66 minutes? Do you think that is satisfactory production?

how can you rebound when you are at the 3pt line or 16ft from the basket when a shot goes up

not running the offense through those 2, Giannis and Jabari, is the crime here

make Monroe have to go get his rebounds, not G and J

The starting 3 and 4 for Toronto combine for 13 reb in 51 minutes. And Monroe had 11 reb in 33.

[Baddy Chuck]

I see what you're saying but Giannis is out number one guy. Only fair to compare him to their #1 guy KAT who is so much better. Wiggins is their number two guy and runs circles around Jabari.

No doubt. There's a reason why you want the #1 pick instead of 2 or 15.

[M-C-G]

Bern, as I said, Monroe was great abusing Biyombo. The Raptors countered and took him out. At the end of the day, he's a non mobile center that a decent chunk of the league knows how to handle. He's the Michael Redd of centers as he was in Detroit.

Monroe is a match up dependent guy as is Henson and as is Giannis if you choose to use him at center. It's not Monroe's fault that we run our extremely poor base defense and offense regardless of situation. We could have easily moved Giannis to small ball center if we had an ounce of creativity or logic in our rotations. And this is coming from a guy that hates Giannis at center.

If Prunty is our offensive coordinator he needs to go. Whoever is responsible for this total misuse of players and matchups is the biggest problem we have. Actually, this whole scheme on offense and defense is deplorable and holding us back more than anything else at this point. We have no identity and when we play guys to their strengths ala the Cavs and Warriors game we are a great team, we just don't do it, like at all.

[midranger]

I see what you're saying but Giannis is out number one guy. Only fair to compare him to their #1 guy KAT who is so much better. Wiggins is their number two guy and runs circles around Jabari.

No doubt. There's a reason why you want the #1 pick instead of 2 or 15.

Fo sho

[M-C-G]

I don't know how anyone can watch Monroe play and think, yeah that's a good player right there.

Troy,

Make a list of starting centers
Then look at the ones that can score efficiently
Then look at the ones that can rebound
Then look at the ones that can pass
Then look at the ones that can hit free throws
Then look at the ones that can defend
Then look at the age to make sure they are a fit with our window

Who are you left with, because that is obviously the player you, me and the rest of the Bucks fan community are looking for...

Then, reasonably explain how said player would ever be available and what you are giving up to get them here, because I am honestly interested.

Monroe does a lot of stuff well but is not a complete two way player, but I don't see the player that you want a. existing and b. being available because of a.

[bucksbrewers3]

Monroe and to a lesser extent Jabari did a nice job in the 3rd of abusing Biyombo. But then Toronto countered with a Scola/Patterson mobile/3 shooting front line which killed that advantage in the fourth.

Or, we were up 7 after a surge when he left and down 9 when he returned w/ 7 minutes left. Gotta be deflating as f**k to keep on building leads, only to have them thrown away and then some, having to dig your way out of considerable deficits again. And from an offensive standpoint, kind of hard to play high/low post basketball when you have to do it late.

Bern, as I said, Monroe was great abusing Biyombo. The Raptors countered and took him out. At the end of the day, he's a non mobile center that a decent chunk of the league knows how to handle. He's the Michael Redd of centers as he was in Detroit.

When you look at both Monroe and MCW, each guy has at times put up stats and won games. Yet neither of their respective teams won with them and both teams and their fanbases seemed perfectly comfortable to see them go. Our GM needed to take that into account. He did not.

Yea they countered to take away Monroes strength and we did nothing to counter that. Plumlee while not a great player can at least be mobile. That's on coaching not Monroe. He wasn't put in a position to succeed


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[VooDoo7]

Kidd and his staff are constantly preaching sharing the ball, everybody playing together, unselfishness.

That's great and all, but it's like they treat each player as an equal. This isn't junior high. You have two potential super stars in Jabari and Giannis. They need to be treating them that way. Feeding them. Running plays for them to get them more involved. Getting them in a mindset that they are better than everybody else on the floor.

The offense we run is comically bad.

As far as I'm concerned, this whole staff can take a hike.

[M-C-G]

The offense we run is comically bad.

Just getting Midds, Mayo and Vaughn some plays designed to get open 3 pointers could really open up this offense. I was watching 4 Raptors in the paints all the time because we decide to run a 2 man game with Monroe and Midds both inside the 3 point line with MCW and Giannis flashing into the lane. It is insane and completely ineffective and everyone can see it.

The talent is on this roster, I actually believe that. But until we change our scheme to utilize your talent you are going to keep seeing the same **** we have rolled out all season

[SkilesTheLimit]

It's very difficult to win games when just 1 of your 5 starters can hit an outside jumper or 3 with any consistency.

MCW, Giannis, Jabari, and Moose can't keep defenses honest because they can't shoot.

It's actually pretty simple to figure out why our team stinks.

[BallinBucks420]

the thing about the Giannis and KAT and Wiggins comparisons is Giannis is only 2 months older then Wiggins 8 or 9 months older then KAT..he was basically playing in the Greece D league which is worse then the competition Wiggins and KAT played in high school and AAU..He was a guy who was not even suppose to be getting NBA minutes until this year or next year at best...As well as the fact that we don't run the team through Giannis and Jabari like the T-Wolves do so of course Wiggins and KAT will put up better stats..Wiggins is a scorer and will be a good one but look at his rebounding and assist numbers..there pretty bad for a guy who gets the ball as much as him...KAT will be a stud but he's a #1 pick and everyone knew he would be...Jabari will be fine and a good one..just wait till next year

[drew881]

It's very difficult to win games when just 1 of your 5 starters can hit an outside jumper or 3 with any consistency.

MCW, Giannis, Jabari, and Moose can't keep defenses honest because they can't shoot.

It's actually pretty simple to figure out why our team stinks.

I would state it slightly differently. It is very difficult to win games when just 1 of your 5 starters TAKES an outside jumper or three, period.

MCW, Giannis, and Jabari can't keep defenses from collapsing into the paint because they don't shoot. For those who complain about Giannis and Jabari standing off the to the side or in the corner, I would rather have them do this at times in order to free up the lane for Monroe, or actually get some practice taking those jumpshots, especially on the baselines. Jabari especially.

[El Duderino]

It's very difficult to win games when just 1 of your 5 starters can hit an outside jumper or 3 with any consistency.

MCW, Giannis, Jabari, and Moose can't keep defenses honest because they can't shoot.

It's actually pretty simple to figure out why our team stinks.

It's easily the biggest problem offensively. This not only clogs the paint, just look at the box scores of who wins games each given night. Most teams that win will have anywhere from say 6-15 made threes.

Mix in the bad rebounding and often bad defense, it's a trifecta for being a bad team.

[DrWood]

Interesting +/- numbers in a 21 point loss:
Monroe: 0
Giannis, MCW, and Henson: -21
I don't see how anyone can blame the loss on Monroe.
Reserve the hate when the player deserves it.

[Prez]

Towns
Giannis
Wiggins
Jabari

That's my order of prospects right now, as they are today. But the reality is that combination could be completely different, flipped 1-4 to 4-1 by just next year. None of them are even close to what they could be. Towns as an athletic big man with a high motor is obviously going to contribute immediately and look way better way earlier though, even if his shot isn't falling just by physical tools alone he can put up hustle points, grab boards and alter/block shots. The wings are gonna take time, they need more skill refinement to become the impact players they project to be. I really don't think there's much at all separating Giannis-Wiggins-Jabari. I think Giannis is better than Wiggins by a hair and I think Jabari with 2-3 more months of experience is gonna be right up there with those two.

Also, don't underestimate the Rubio effect. It helps 20-21 year old prospects a bit when you have one of the most brilliant passers and floor generals in the NBA today running things instead of the massive squirrel turd that is Michael CW. Seriously, I would LOVE to see what our duo looks like feeding off Rubio and what Minny's duo looks like watching MCW dribble around for 20 seconds trying not to **** up, then ****ing up anyways.