2016 NBA Draft Thread Part 4

[Frank Nova]

10 for 16 and 23.
MCW, 36, 38 for 24 and 26
Monroe for 22
Henson for 27

16 - Zizic
22 - Maker
23 - Cornelie
24 - Jones
26 - Onuaku
27 - Diallo

Someone has to hit, right?

Do you hate Monroe that much to basically say he's on a John Henson level of value?

[breakchains]

10 for 16 and 23.
MCW, 36, 38 for 24 and 26
Monroe for 22
Henson for 27

16 - Zizic
22 - Maker
23 - Cornelie
24 - Jones
26 - Onuaku
27 - Diallo

Someone has to hit, right?

Do you hate Monroe that much to basically say he's on a John Henson level of value?

To me personally, Henson has more value than Monroe.

By the way, I love that plan

[Badgerlander]

See, I think that this is where you have to factor in how a player's skill set fits with you current core players. I know that's a dirty word but it is true.

With Giannis and Middleton, I don't want a guy who is using an advanced handle to pound the ball and break down a defense one on one at the top of the key. I want the guy who can be a secondary ball handler and playmaker, 40% 3 point shooter, and high level defender at the PG position. That's well within the realm of possibility/probability with Baldwin. He'll never be Iverson or Wade, but I'm cool with that. It's not like Deyonta Davis is going to be Tim Duncan.

This just seems backwards to me. Just because a player has a tight handle doesn't mean they have to pound the ball. A secondary ball handler that can run a competent PnR at the top of the key and draw the opposing Center out of the paint for Giannis and Jabari to destroy the rim would be ideal. If the guard can shoot 3s off the dribble and hit a midrange jumper I'd do backflips. If all he can do is catch and shoot his defender can play off of him especially if he doesn't move without the ball. Giannis should be the primary ball handler but teams started playing off of him and dared him to take jumpers so until he can hit them we could use another ball handler and the tighter the handle the less chance of a turnover.


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Isn't this why we have Ennis on the roster though? If Ennis can't bring that, then no point in having him on the roster. That gives Baldwin time to grow his game in the mean time.

The off the dribble shooting his highly desirable as we see how that is changing the game, but a lot to ask from the 10th pick in the draft to do all those things. Great defense, three point shooting (catch and shoot and off the dribble, PnR, mid range jumpers...I mean you are describing Chris Paul aren't you? Chris Paul isn't in this draft, but some guys that will add a lot of wins to our team the next few years, that's available at 10.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a player to show more skill and/or athleticism or potential than Baldwin at 10, which is why I said I'd take at least 16 players ahead of him regardless of fit. Like I've said I'm looking for a Paul George or Klay Thompson level player and I think that there will be 2-3 with a chance available at our pick


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[breakchains]

This just seems backwards to me. Just because a player has a tight handle doesn't mean they have to pound the ball. A secondary ball handler that can run a competent PnR at the top of the key and draw the opposing Center out of the paint for Giannis and Jabari to destroy the rim would be ideal. If the guard can shoot 3s off the dribble and hit a midrange jumper I'd do backflips. If all he can do is catch and shoot his defender can play off of him especially if he doesn't move without the ball. Giannis should be the primary ball handler but teams started playing off of him and dared him to take jumpers so until he can hit them we could use another ball handler and the tighter the handle the less chance of a turnover.


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Isn't this why we have Ennis on the roster though? If Ennis can't bring that, then no point in having him on the roster. That gives Baldwin time to grow his game in the mean time.

The off the dribble shooting his highly desirable as we see how that is changing the game, but a lot to ask from the 10th pick in the draft to do all those things. Great defense, three point shooting (catch and shoot and off the dribble, PnR, mid range jumpers...I mean you are describing Chris Paul aren't you? Chris Paul isn't in this draft, but some guys that will add a lot of wins to our team the next few years, that's available at 10.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a player to show more skill and/or athleticism or potential than Baldwin at 10, which is why I said I'd take at least 16 players ahead of him regardless of fit. Like I've said I'm looking for a Paul George or Klay Thompson level player and I think that there will be 2-3 with a chance available at our pick


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who?

[Badgerlander]

Isn't this why we have Ennis on the roster though? If Ennis can't bring that, then no point in having him on the roster. That gives Baldwin time to grow his game in the mean time.

The off the dribble shooting his highly desirable as we see how that is changing the game, but a lot to ask from the 10th pick in the draft to do all those things. Great defense, three point shooting (catch and shoot and off the dribble, PnR, mid range jumpers...I mean you are describing Chris Paul aren't you? Chris Paul isn't in this draft, but some guys that will add a lot of wins to our team the next few years, that's available at 10.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a player to show more skill and/or athleticism or potential than Baldwin at 10, which is why I said I'd take at least 16 players ahead of him regardless of fit. Like I've said I'm looking for a Paul George or Klay Thompson level player and I think that there will be 2-3 with a chance available at our pick


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who?

Davis for one


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[VooDoo7]

I don't think it's too much to ask for a player to show more skill and/or athleticism or potential than Baldwin at 10, which is why I said I'd take at least 16 players ahead of him regardless of fit. Like I've said I'm looking for a Paul George or Klay Thompson level player and I think that there will be 2-3 with a chance available at our pick


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who?

Davis for one


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What about two and three?

Also, Klay isn't much of an athlete himself.

[freewhitemoon]

i have a feeling toronto will pick Deyonta Davis. Hopefully they get hyped enough about Skal and take him instead since they need a stretch 4

[Baddy Chuck]

See, I think that this is where you have to factor in how a player's skill set fits with you current core players. I know that's a dirty word but it is true.

With Giannis and Middleton, I don't want a guy who is using an advanced handle to pound the ball and break down a defense one on one at the top of the key. I want the guy who can be a secondary ball handler and playmaker, 40% 3 point shooter, and high level defender at the PG position. That's well within the realm of possibility/probability with Baldwin. He'll never be Iverson or Wade, but I'm cool with that. It's not like Deyonta Davis is going to be Tim Duncan.

Wait, you don't want that skill in that guys back pocket? That seems a little ridiculous to me personally. I mean obviously you reel it in when there's better players on the court but I think that's a big difference between a guy being Langston Galloway compared to George Hill. One guy has that extra gear, one guy doesn't. I fear that Baldwin really doesn't have that extra gear. He really didn't in college.

[mke_design]

I feel like people are writing off baldwin on some presumptions without even checking out a youtube video or three. The guy is explosive as hell he nearly rips down the rim when he dunks, amazing feel for getting to the rim, and smooth jumper. Sort of something we need...

[Baddy Chuck]

You really think he's an explosive athlete? I don't see that at all.

I see a little meatball who struggles to get by guys on the perimeter and throws himself at bigs in the lane. I think back to the Jabari/Wiggins debate of "shake vs explosiveness" on the perimeter and I don't think Baldwin has either.

[mke_design]

I dont really understand the difference between explosive and using your body and speed to finish at the rim with momentum. Momentum is basically p=mv or mass x velocity (which is distance divided by time over distance and direction). Scientifically he checks out. This is, to me, what makes westbrook so explosive. His ability to use his mass and speed. Science ands stuff, but oh well. I guess what I'm wondering then just for the sake of argument is it jackson>baldwin?

[Baddy Chuck]

I have Baldwin considerably over Jackson. I don't even think Jackson is a better prospect than Jerian Grant was last season.

I think the Westbrook comparisons are absolutely ABSURD personally. Westbrook not only turns the corner with explosive speed but he also elevates over guys going towards the rim at a level that we've basically never seen at the point guard position ever. Baldwin doesn't compare at all with that. If we're going like tier 1 point guard guys I feel like you're probably looking at Kyle Lowry as the comparison. Again, just that little meatball who when he gets by his guy on the perimeter just throws himself into contact rather than attacking the rim.

[mke_design]

I think that is fair and it is presumptuous for me to use westbrook as the example. Baldwin has a poor change of direction while retaining his speed. He does play well above the rim but westbrook has that one in a million barry sanders change of direction. But good to know that Jackson doesn't surpass Baldwin as a prospect.

[nmeurett]

Pick Wade Baldwin with our first rounder, trade Monroe and MCW for whatever we can get. Offer Whiteside a max offer and pray he takes it. Next season you go with this lineup:

PG Baldwin
SG Middleton
SF Giannis
PF Parker
C Whiteside

[Baddy Chuck]

Do you hate Monroe that much to basically say he's on a John Henson level of value?

I guess so, because yeah I really don't think their values are that dissimilar. Meh players have meh value.

[xTitan]

Do you hate Monroe that much to basically say he's on a John Henson level of value?

I guess so, because yeah I really don't think their values are that dissimilar. Meh players have meh value.

Monroe's contract makes him more attractive, even though the $12mm per Henson is going to make over the next several years isn't as much as it once was, still quite a bit for a softy who is injured a fair amount.

[Baddy Chuck]

Do you hate Monroe that much to basically say he's on a John Henson level of value?

I guess so, because yeah I really don't think their values are that dissimilar. Meh players have meh value.

Monroe's contract makes him more attractive, even though the $12mm per Henson is going to make over the next several years isn't as much as it once was, still quite a bit for a softy who is injured a fair amount.

I think you're looking at different things with both players. Monroe's short term contract is a blessing because he gives a team a look if an extremely flawed player could fit with them. Henson's contract is a gamble but I think there's certainly a team out there thinking they can rehabilitate him somewhat, turn him into their future center and it looks like a bargain. I don't think either are good gambles personally.

[midranger]

See, I think that this is where you have to factor in how a player's skill set fits with you current core players. I know that's a dirty word but it is true.

With Giannis and Middleton, I don't want a guy who is using an advanced handle to pound the ball and break down a defense one on one at the top of the key. I want the guy who can be a secondary ball handler and playmaker, 40% 3 point shooter, and high level defender at the PG position. That's well within the realm of possibility/probability with Baldwin. He'll never be Iverson or Wade, but I'm cool with that. It's not like Deyonta Davis is going to be Tim Duncan.

Wait, you don't want that skill in that guys back pocket? That seems a little ridiculous to me personally. I mean obviously you reel it in when there's better players on the court but I think that's a big difference between a guy being Langston Galloway compared to George Hill. One guy has that extra gear, one guy doesn't. I fear that Baldwin really doesn't have that extra gear. He really didn't in college.

Of course. I'd like our pick to be a Westbrook, Stockton, and marrow hybrid. Unfortunately we're picking #10 in a crappy draft where the #1 pick doesn't get you a complete player.

Like Davis. Don't you want 7 feet tall, any offensive skill, consistent effort/awareness, and rudimentary human intelligence in your pocket when drafting a guy to play center?

[Baddy Chuck]

See, I think that this is where you have to factor in how a player's skill set fits with you current core players. I know that's a dirty word but it is true.

With Giannis and Middleton, I don't want a guy who is using an advanced handle to pound the ball and break down a defense one on one at the top of the key. I want the guy who can be a secondary ball handler and playmaker, 40% 3 point shooter, and high level defender at the PG position. That's well within the realm of possibility/probability with Baldwin. He'll never be Iverson or Wade, but I'm cool with that. It's not like Deyonta Davis is going to be Tim Duncan.

Wait, you don't want that skill in that guys back pocket? That seems a little ridiculous to me personally. I mean obviously you reel it in when there's better players on the court but I think that's a big difference between a guy being Langston Galloway compared to George Hill. One guy has that extra gear, one guy doesn't. I fear that Baldwin really doesn't have that extra gear. He really didn't in college.

Of course. I'd like our pick to be a Westbrook, Stockton, and marrow hybrid. Unfortunately we're picking #10 in a crappy draft where the #1 pick doesn't get you a complete player.

Like Davis. Don't you want 7 feet tall, any offensive skill, consistent effort/awareness, and rudimentary human intelligence in your pocket when drafting a guy to play center?

Guess I was caught a little off guard when you literally said "I don't want a guy who can break down defenses and play one on one".

I guess when it comes to Davis I'm not drafting him for the player he is on day one, where the biggest argument for Baldwin seems to be drafting essentially Matthew Dellavedova with a top 10 pick because the fit, oh my god the fit!

[skones]

Baldwin's extremely poor finishing in the paint given his overall size, strength, and length is very concerning to me. That combined with the lack of a tight handle makes me think it's a touch thing and has me wary of that three point shot translating when he's moved back a bit more. The finishing thing is just extremely mindboggling.

If he''s not a knock down shooter, is he really a better prospect than Jackson at the point guard given his overall athleticism and speed? I'm not sure.