PG Thread (Philly) - The Process Owns The Future

[TJseven]

It seems to me that our switching defensive scheme is leading to all these 3 point shots which just kill us. Does anyone here have a suggestion about how to make this scheme work or better still does anyone think that we should change out defensive scheme completely to something else? Something that will work with our current players?

On offense we just do not have good natural shooters other than KM. Almost every team I see has several good consistent shooters --- some a re good 3 point shooters while others are consistent 2 point shooters. I cannot see how our team can be good offensively on a consistent basis with zero consistent shooting.

So maybe our defensive scheme can be changed this year. Offense improvement will have to wait for KM and other new players who can shoot.

Any good coaching ideas anyone on how we can be better with our current players?

Certainly not the most educated person in regards to this but I'll take a crack at it.

Kidds D scheme stinks of over-complexity. I'm a football defensive guy not a basketball guy but you see it all the time and there are a few clear indicators/parrelells to me.

First problem is that this actually worked before but has fallen into shambles. Kudoz to cinemtographer for the stats dive btw... I've read and not posted for a couple years now. But remember when this switching D worked. Zaza Dudley. We had a bright vet undersized guy playing the 4 a lot. We had a big body who fought for position on the blocks and as much as the dude couldn't jump... he got away with a lot of vet body contact shot alteration and a surprising number of blocks for a dude who I rarely remember jumping. Now look at parker snell and ask yourself... defensuve bbiq for this scheme? Effort is there as is man up skills... but rotations? Mirza simply can't do it. So when our mobile 4 leaves the game... bye bye defense. Problem 2 is that I don't think we have a single center who wins on the block like zaza regularly did. Look at what the philly coach said... extend out from the 3 line 2 steps... stretch the paint dives for the perimeter guys to give the bigs more space in the paint... then get ready to step in and bomb a 3. You simply have to stretch this defense and even our lenghth can't save it. You get easy deep post position... thats 1 step of space... extend the 3 spacing... thats 2 steps of space... and it crumbles. That means the scheme is easily broken... its too complex. They put us in no mans land. Philly hit the nail on the head and kidd pointed at his players... bad sign. It reminds me of buzz and his paint touches.

Why do we do better vs SA GS CLE... gasol is a puss, small ball or zaza, and thompson. Do any of those teams prioritize getting their center the ball deep in the paint? Nope. Less double dives... less open 3s. Knicks Wash MN Phi... noah just needs to touch it and pass it out... gorat owns the paint on O... mn phi... towns embiid. Am I over simplifying or is it just that damn simple?

Switching is a give and take venture. You gain by easier position and avoiding picks... you lose in matchups which will lead to blow bys that need to be fixed by a rim protector. We don't got one of zaza level... it's that sad. Duds wasnt a switch nightmare... telly is. Can you fix it with this roster? Nope.

Yet we paid 24 mil to 2 guys who can't do what the system demands... 24 mil after kidd saw or should have seen they couldn't do it. We could have offered howard or horford... should have added rolo. The communication between kidd hammy blows or one or both are blind in regards to their own scheme and players capabilites.

To me its that simple.

[Pachinko_]

Why do we do better vs SA GS CLE... gasol is a puss, small ball or zaza, and thompson. Do any of those teams prioritize getting their center the ball deep in the paint? Nope. Less double dives... less open 3s. Knicks Wash MN Phi... noah just needs to touch it and pass it out... gorat owns the paint on O... mn phi... towns embiid. Am I over simplifying or is it just that damn simple?

This makes sense to me.
GS CLE prioritise their outside game, with SA we got lucky because aldridge was out, he's their go to post guy these days as gasol prefers to face up.

its really no rocket science, you move the ball in and out a couple of times and a slower (telly) or inexperienced guy (Jabari) will get lost. Which by the way is just another unfair situation for Telly because the dude actually fights in D and can hold his own against similar size dudes, but he just can't switch and recover as fast and as far as this scheme requires.

[Fotis St]

It seems to me that our switching defensive scheme is leading to all these 3 point shots which just kill us. Does anyone here have a suggestion about how to make this scheme work or better still does anyone think that we should change out defensive scheme completely to something else? Something that will work with our current players?

On offense we just do not have good natural shooters other than KM. Almost every team I see has several good consistent shooters --- some a re good 3 point shooters while others are consistent 2 point shooters. I cannot see how our team can be good offensively on a consistent basis with zero consistent shooting.

So maybe our defensive scheme can be changed this year. Offense improvement will have to wait for KM and other new players who can shoot.

Any good coaching ideas anyone on how we can be better with our current players?

Certainly not the most educated person in regards to this but I'll take a crack at it.

Great post , keep em coming !!!

Kidds D scheme stinks of over-complexity. I'm a football defensive guy not a basketball guy but you see it all the time and there are a few clear indicators/parrelells to me.

First problem is that this actually worked before but has fallen into shambles. Kudoz to cinemtographer for the stats dive btw... I've read and not posted for a couple years now. But remember when this switching D worked. Zaza Dudley. We had a bright vet undersized guy playing the 4 a lot. We had a big body who fought for position on the blocks and as much as the dude couldn't jump... he got away with a lot of vet body contact shot alteration and a surprising number of blocks for a dude who I rarely remember jumping. Now look at parker snell and ask yourself... defensuve bbiq for this scheme? Effort is there as is man up skills... but rotations? Mirza simply can't do it. So when our mobile 4 leaves the game... bye bye defense. Problem 2 is that I don't think we have a single center who wins on the block like zaza regularly did. Look at what the philly coach said... extend out from the 3 line 2 steps... stretch the paint dives for the perimeter guys to give the bigs more space in the paint... then get ready to step in and bomb a 3. You simply have to stretch this defense and even our lenghth can't save it. You get easy deep post position... thats 1 step of space... extend the 3 spacing... thats 2 steps of space... and it crumbles. That means the scheme is easily broken... its too complex. They put us in no mans land. Philly hit the nail on the head and kidd pointed at his players... bad sign. It reminds me of buzz and his paint touches.

Why do we do better vs SA GS CLE... gasol is a puss, small ball or zaza, and thompson. Do any of those teams prioritize getting their center the ball deep in the paint? Nope. Less double dives... less open 3s. Knicks Wash MN Phi... noah just needs to touch it and pass it out... gorat owns the paint on O... mn phi... towns embiid. Am I over simplifying or is it just that damn simple?

Switching is a give and take venture. You gain by easier position and avoiding picks... you lose in matchups which will lead to blow bys that need to be fixed by a rim protector. We don't got one of zaza level... it's that sad. Duds wasnt a switch nightmare... telly is. Can you fix it with this roster? Nope.

Yet we paid 24 mil to 2 guys who can't do what the system demands... 24 mil after kidd saw or should have seen they couldn't do it. We could have offered howard or horford... should have added rolo. The communication between kidd hammy blows or one or both are blind in regards to their own scheme and players capabilites.

To me its that simple.

[ratrac]

yeah, Hammond is a pretty friendly and nice dude... Colangelo introduced himself as, "I'm Brian Colangelo, the President of the 76'ers." "Yes, I know... The Process is my 4th favorite player in the league." He wondered who the 3rd fave was.. "The prez of course." He didn't know who that was.

Any other quotes?

[JEIS]

He's got a weird sense of humour thats for sure

My fav Embiid moment was when someone asked him his shoe size, Embiid told him whatever huge number, and then he turns to the camera and says really slowly "its biiiiig". And then he just keeps staring at the camera in silence and nodding slowly for 5 awkward seconds, pretty much letting everybody know he could be talking (or was really talking) about his dick

Anyway screw him, can we go back to figuring out wtf is wrong with our team?

1.)Play man defense

2.)Play Thon at center.

3.)Don't take players out of the game when they are hot.

4.)Take time outs when the other team goes on a run.

5.) More pick and rolls.. less iso play

6.) Get Middleton back... another three point threat to go along with Jabari and Mirza... more lineup options and minimizes the minutes of other players who aren't as impactful as he could be.





I think it would make a world of difference. We are likely still trying to trade Monroe...Trade him and Henson's drinking buddy is gone.(henson will likely focus more on his game, or feel less like crap when playing.) Thon will likely get abused some like henson, but his effort will alter more shots, get more blocks and boards which will create more fast break points allowing giannis, Jabari, Himself and other teamates thrive on easier open shots.

Thon can actually dunk. (Higher % shots at the rim than Monroe's missed and 1 bunny shots, and hensons bobble turnovers.)

Our length becomes more advantageous... Jabari and Mirza will play better defense with man coverage.

[Chuck Diesel]

Whatever. I like when guys talk **** about Milwaukee. It adds another layer of fun. Let dude be a professional wrestler, with his undertaker, goldust hybrid ass.

[HKPackFan]

Out of the many wrongs on yesterday's game , I would like to focus on one thing here.
Giannis starts on fire, and when he has the momentum he rocks. He has 0 PF. Why rest him after 5 minutes in the game ?

Every game, every time, the same change. Did Kidd have an oracle where the BasketGod told him : "..And on the 5th minute thou shalt rest Giannis.." ?
Every opponent coach expects it, you screw his momentum (since there were no PF issues, nor he faced problem with the opponent team lineup)

We start with 9-0, he is on fire, then he is benched and for a period of time we play like total idiots.
If the flow of the game doesn't require otherwise, resting him on the second half for a period, then he has the long mid break and for a period during the 2nd half makes much more sense.

And not only him. Monroe get benched for longer periods, Brogdon gets benched in the 4th, etc etc.

It is, as if he has to stick to his rotations, no matter what. Feel the f**** game man and act along.

The L yesterday was so frustrating...

Feel for the game? Riding the hot hand? Those aren't in the basketball books kidd reads.

[drone3]

Embiid is the best C in the league, he's only weakness is his health.

[paulpressey25]

Yet we paid 24 mil to 2 guys who can't do what the system demands... 24 mil after kidd saw or should have seen they couldn't do it. We could have offered howard or horford... should have added rolo. The communication between kidd hammy blows or one or both are blind in regards to their own scheme and players capabilites.

1. Kidd and Hammond aren't in the top quartile of others in their profession, maybe even top half depending on how you view it.

2. As it was under Kohl, the front office structure is designed to let the owners get their meddle on. Both guys have input, both run it past the owners. We started out with them listening to Kidd their first 18-24 months. Now since May they've been giving Hammond the bigger voice in the room. The structure doesn't work unless your owner is the equivalent of Red Auerbach in his prime. Our owners aren't that.

[Magic Giannison]

Imagien what Houston would do to us in the next game.... ohh god.

[crkone]

Yet we paid 24 mil to 2 guys who can't do what the system demands... 24 mil after kidd saw or should have seen they couldn't do it. We could have offered howard or horford... should have added rolo. The communication between kidd hammy blows or one or both are blind in regards to their own scheme and players capabilites.

1. Kidd and Hammond aren't in the top quartile of others in their profession, maybe even top half depending on how you view it.

2. As it was under Kohl, the front office structure is designed to let the owners get their meddle on. Both guys have input, both run it past the owners. We started out with them listening to Kidd their first 18-24 months. Now since May they've been giving Hammond the bigger voice in the room. The structure doesn't work unless your owner is the equivalent of Red Auerbach in his prime. Our owners aren't that.

Kidd still decides what FAs we keep and pursue. He just doesn't have full control like he did when he drafted Vaughn.

[crkone]

I'm genuinely surprised people believe the defense will improve with a scheme change. Our scheme breaks down at the point of attack, we have horrible defenders. Our PGs can't stop dribble penetration, only Snell has acceptable lateral movement on this team, and half the team still ignores their man when playing man to man. Giannis won't be able to help defend as much if he has to play in man to man too, unless he's playing as a C under the basket. We'll allow a few less 3 pointers a game but that will be cancelled out by all the grabbing our defense will have to do just to stay in front of their men. Bucks need more two way players and better defenders on the bench.

[Nightfall]

Out of the many wrongs on yesterday's game , I would like to focus on one thing here.
Giannis starts on fire, and when he has the momentum he rocks. He has 0 PF. Why rest him after 5 minutes in the game ?

Every game, every time, the same change. Did Kidd have an oracle where the BasketGod told him : "..And on the 5th minute thou shalt rest Giannis.." ?
Every opponent coach expects it, you screw his momentum (since there were no PF issues, nor he faced problem with the opponent team lineup)

We start with 9-0, he is on fire, then he is benched and for a period of time we play like total idiots.
If the flow of the game doesn't require otherwise, resting him on the second half for a period, then he has the long mid break and for a period during the 2nd half makes much more sense.

And not only him. Monroe get benched for longer periods, Brogdon gets benched in the 4th, etc etc.

It is, as if he has to stick to his rotations, no matter what. Feel the f**** game man and act along.

The L yesterday was so frustrating...

Feel for the game? Riding the hot hand? Those aren't in the basketball books kidd reads.

He only reads : "Jason Kidd: My Systems. An Advanced Guide" - Now both pages in color !

[paulpressey25]

Kidd still decides what FAs we keep and pursue. He just doesn't have full control like he did when he drafted Vaughn.

Sigh.

[paulpressey25]

I'm genuinely surprised people believe the defense will improve with a scheme change. Our scheme breaks down at the point of attack, we have horrible defenders. Our PGs can't stop dribble penetration, only Snell has acceptable lateral movement on this team, and half the team still ignores their man when playing man to man. Giannis won't be able to help defend as much if he has to play in man to man too, unless he's playing as a C under the basket. We'll allow a few less 3 pointers a game but that will be cancelled out by all the grabbing our defense will have to do just to stay in front of their men. Bucks need more two way players and better defenders on the bench.

Ersan, ZaZa and Dudley didn't have the glamour of others at their respective positions. But they were really smart players. I think even two years later you could bring them all back and this team would have about 5-6 more wins.

[JimmyTheKid]

Went to the game yesterday. Ugh. What a mess. But, again, these are the types of performances you occasionally get when your best players are 21, 22, and hurt. Giannis just can't commit those dumb fouls to keep him from court if we're going to win with any sort of consistency right now. On to the next one.

[JimmyTheKid]

Beat the Cavs, beat San Antonio on the road, then lose to the Knicks and Sixers at home. This team is really weird...

"Weird" in that they're young and inconsistent. Young and inconsistent pretty much go hand in hand. So maybe not that weird after all?

[JimmyTheKid]

Supposedly our "process" is well ahead of "their process" and we have the "stable and respected GM and head coach" versus the chaos that was "Hinkie".

The bottom line is if the Bucks were really that much farther ahead of Philly, we would have taken care of business at home today and Embiid wouldn't have been posting ****.

Its one game, man.

[M-C-G]

Out of the many wrongs on yesterday's game , I would like to focus on one thing here.
Giannis starts on fire, and when he has the momentum he rocks. He has 0 PF. Why rest him after 5 minutes in the game ?

Every game, every time, the same change. Did Kidd have an oracle where the BasketGod told him : "..And on the 5th minute thou shalt rest Giannis.." ?
Every opponent coach expects it, you screw his momentum (since there were no PF issues, nor he faced problem with the opponent team lineup)

We start with 9-0, he is on fire, then he is benched and for a period of time we play like total idiots.
If the flow of the game doesn't require otherwise, resting him on the second half for a period, then he has the long mid break and for a period
during the 2nd half makes much more sense.

And not only him. Monroe get benched for longer periods, Brogdon gets benched in the 4th, etc etc.

It is, as if he has to stick to his rotations, no matter what. Feel the f**** game man and act along.

The L yesterday was so frustrating...

Agreed. For someone with such great on the court basketball instinct it is odd how he manages the game as a coach.... instinct and intuition seems to be lacking... Momentum swings usually can be stopped with a time out... If your guy is hot you don't bench or ice him.1

I know I am sounding like a broken record, but the question still boils down (I've been asking this for weeks and feel no closer to an answer) how much of Kidd's coaching is idiocy vs. doing idiotic thinks for the sake of development.

[Ron Swanson]

I think you guys keep confusing "meddling" with simply bad decision-making. I see nothing to indicate that Hammond hasn't had nearly free reign this offseason outside his couple "throw Kidd a bone" acquisitions of Terry and Beasley (which in turn have probably been our best).

If we end up in the playoffs and handle moving one of our logjam center contracts, I guess the rights outweigh the wrongs pretty substantially. If not, then you take the offseason moves as a step back and bring in Zanik (or hire a different GM?) to try and clean up your salary cap. Not everything in this franchise is forever linked to the Kohl era style of management.