PG Thread (Indiana) - The elusive quest for .500 continues!

[leroyjw10]

There was a point in the 4th when Giannis was forced to go 1-on-1 because everybody else was just standing there. Mids then started giving him s--- on the way back down the floor and Giannis just looked at him and said "no one's moving." Middleton is vital to this team's success, but he needs to realize this is Giannis' team and accept his role as 2nd or 3rd option.

I don't think it's a role issue with Mids. I think he sees himself as a leader with a few more years of game experience under his belt, and he's trying to coach Giannis on the court to help him get better.

But Giannis was right - no one was moving on that play. Middleton played like **** today. He needs to look in the mirror.

Just because Middleton sees himself as a leader, even if others see him as a leader, that doesn't give him the right to openly call out teammates on the court, during play. Take that to the bench or the locker room or the film session. To do it during play is poor leadership. Take the recent LeBron-Tristan dust up. LeBron admitted afterwards he screwed up and shouldn't have shown up a teammate. That's what a leader does.

And, like you said, you especially don't do it when you're playing like crap. If Middleton was having a game, had great post position on Monte Ellie and then Giannis went 1-on-1, go ahead and have a few words. But when Giannis is the only guy doing anything, then you need to stay quiet.

[Pacers_Freak]

Let me give an outsider prospective. I understand the frustration. I really do. Last night was the 1st time in 27 games the Pacers have won back to back games. Oof. I get more and more impressed every time I watch Giannis. He has improved his game so much this year. I obviously don't watch every Bucks game, but I think some here are too hard on Middleton. It is really tough to come back after missing all of those games. Everyone else has training camp and pre-season games to get their game in check and he has had to do it on the fly. The unfortunate reality for our mid market franchises is it is tough to put together a roster without some holes. We can steal a PG or Giannis but you really need 2 with a Teague or Middleton to be a legit contender. I think you guys easily get in playoffs. Philly and then I'm sure Charlotte will have mailed it in by then and then probably a resting Boston. Hope we get in with you. And hope we can both cause some hell once we are in.


On a side note. Was curious why Mil got away from running the Giannis and Delly pick and pop. The Pacers switched it once and Giannis scored easy on Teague. Then they quit switching and Delly got a wide open 3 off of it. If memory serves me right he went liek 2-3 from 3 on that play.

[Presence]

On a side note. Was curious why Mil got away from running the Giannis and Delly pick and pop. The Pacers switched it once and Giannis scored easy on Teague. Then they quit switching and Delly got a wide open 3 off of it. If memory serves me right he went liek 2-3 from 3 on that play.

Because letting Giannis be great does not sit well with Kidd. Understanding that the team is not built around one player.

[Beorn]

coz Kidd is incompetent

[TheWig]

Let me give an outsider prospective. I understand the frustration. I really do. Last night was the 1st time in 27 games the Pacers have won back to back games. Oof. I get more and more impressed every time I watch Giannis. He has improved his game so much this year. I obviously don't watch every Bucks game, but I think some here are too hard on Middleton. It is really tough to come back after missing all of those games. Everyone else has training camp and pre-season games to get their game in check and he has had to do it on the fly. The unfortunate reality for our mid market franchises is it is tough to put together a roster without some holes. We can steal a PG or Giannis but you really need 2 with a Teague or Middleton to be a legit contender. I think you guys easily get in playoffs. Philly and then I'm sure Charlotte will have mailed it in by then and then probably a resting Boston. Hope we get in with you. And hope we can both cause some hell once we are in.


On a side note. Was curious why Mil got away from running the Giannis and Delly pick and pop. The Pacers switched it once and Giannis scored easy on Teague. Then they quit switching and Delly got a wide open 3 off of it. If memory serves me right he went liek 2-3 from 3 on that play.

Delly is not a good shooter

[Pacers_Freak]

Let me give an outsider prospective. I understand the frustration. I really do. Last night was the 1st time in 27 games the Pacers have won back to back games. Oof. I get more and more impressed every time I watch Giannis. He has improved his game so much this year. I obviously don't watch every Bucks game, but I think some here are too hard on Middleton. It is really tough to come back after missing all of those games. Everyone else has training camp and pre-season games to get their game in check and he has had to do it on the fly. The unfortunate reality for our mid market franchises is it is tough to put together a roster without some holes. We can steal a PG or Giannis but you really need 2 with a Teague or Middleton to be a legit contender. I think you guys easily get in playoffs. Philly and then I'm sure Charlotte will have mailed it in by then and then probably a resting Boston. Hope we get in with you. And hope we can both cause some hell once we are in.


On a side note. Was curious why Mil got away from running the Giannis and Delly pick and pop. The Pacers switched it once and Giannis scored easy on Teague. Then they quit switching and Delly got a wide open 3 off of it. If memory serves me right he went liek 2-3 from 3 on that play.

Delly is not a good shooter

Makes sense. Honestly, have only seen him play once this year. He knocked down a couple open looks off the play for I wasn't sure. And it had to be him doing it because I think they would have switched with anyone else.

[Ron Swanson]

Middleton's been playing like garbage but some of you guys are straight up bipolar when it comes to how you feel about players on a game-to-game basis. All of a sudden Midds has an "ego" problem? Bull ****, he's just been crap the last 2 weeks.

[M-C-G]

Middleton's been playing like garbage but some of you guys are straight up bipolar when it comes to how you feel about players on a game-to-game basis. All of a sudden Midds has an "ego" problem? Bull ****, he's just been crap the last 2 weeks.

I'll assume you are referring to my comment Ron and for me, this is not all of a sudden. I'm also not sure I called it ego, but I can clearly see what I would call friction between him and Giannis and part of that is definitely a byproduct of him trying to expand his role since he has gotten back.

It's no surprise that he was good when he was being "super Snell" shooting open threes, occasional post up and creating for others and it is no surprise he has been garbage since going back in to the man mode and our offense has suffered greatly at the same time.

[LUKE23]

Defense has fallen off a cliff. I wouldn't be surprised if we lose the last 3.

[jute2003]

Middleton was bound to come back down to earth. Hopefully he snaps out of his funk and brogdon helps stabilize everything.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[Ron Swanson]

Middleton's been playing like garbage but some of you guys are straight up bipolar when it comes to how you feel about players on a game-to-game basis. All of a sudden Midds has an "ego" problem? Bull ****, he's just been crap the last 2 weeks.

I'll assume you are referring to my comment Ron and for me, this is not all of a sudden. I'm also not sure I called it ego, but I can clearly see what I would call friction between him and Giannis and part of that is definitely a byproduct of him trying to expand his role since he has gotten back.

It's no surprise that he was good when he was being "super Snell" shooting open threes, occasional post up and creating for others and it is no surprise he has been garbage since going back in to the man mode and our offense has suffered greatly at the same time.

Oh I've definitely been seeing a lot of comments from multiple posters, so I wasn't singling anyone out. We saw this exact same thing from Midds last year in November and early December before he got it going the rest of the year. I think the reality that people are missing is that the precedent that Middleton has established should give everyone confidence that this is nothing more than a temporary slump.

People always seem to want to draw lines to some over-arching narrative or conspiracy when it's not there. He's been doing the dumb "ISO post ups" for a while now, it's not ego and it's not because he's jealous of Giannis' role. It's just something that you have to deal with him doing. I wish he'd do them less when his shot isn't falling, but no one complains when he makes them because it's generally a good shot for him.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

This team doesn't stand a chance if Middleton and Monroe continue to be garbage. Middleton's at 10 ppg on 36% shooting in the last three and Monroe's averaging just 6 and 4 in that time. Throw in the usual junk from everyone else and Giannis is pretty much a one-man team right now.

I'm as big a Brogdon fan as anyone, but is he really this important to the team? Or is this just a coincidence?

brogdon is important in the sense that we have no other competent playmaking pg on the roster. if he goes out the entire team gets pushed out of their ideal positions to succeed and are forced to do things they should never be forced to do. this even includes Giannis. I love him but he has no business being our primary playmaker on the top of the offense play after play.

[Prez]

Middleton is actively hurting the team every minute he's out there. If you're looking for anything to blame, that's it. He's been absolute trash on both ends of the court.

Yeah I'm not sure what's up with Middleton. He looked great coming back from his injury and followed that with an outstanding March. These last three losses he's played terribly.

i think people have short memory. the truth is that middleton didn't play well in most of the games so far not only the last 3 games. just go and check his stats from all the games he played this season and you will see it.

we won many games with middleton having bad perfomance.

This isn't even remotely close to true, and using box score numbers to evaluate a player is overly simplistic. He was playing very smart, efficient basketball even without having huge box score numbers earlier on. And in March his box score numbers were pretty damn good too. His decision making, passing, etc was all way better than it has been recently. People aren't just pissed about his lack of production, but his style of play and approach has changed as well.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

middletons ego has been called out many many many times on this board before. he struggles when he tries to do to much as a shot creator or playmaker outside of a very normal flow. hes dynamite when hes playing relaxed and not trying to do to much.

[crkone]

How funny is it that the Bucks playoffs hopes land at the feet of a second round rookie and hoping a 22-24 year old twig rookie straight from a Canadian high school can play C and provide defense and rebounding that is missing from the vet Cs?

[Ron Swanson]

Attributing the losses to Brogdon is a false equivalency. We don't win either of the last two with Brogdon in the lineup. Middleton and now Monroe have been really bad, that's pretty much all you need to look at. When your 2nd and 3rd best offensive players aren't producing at all, then Giannis has absolutely no help. When Giannis has no help...

[M-C-G]

Middleton's been playing like garbage but some of you guys are straight up bipolar when it comes to how you feel about players on a game-to-game basis. All of a sudden Midds has an "ego" problem? Bull ****, he's just been crap the last 2 weeks.

I'll assume you are referring to my comment Ron and for me, this is not all of a sudden. I'm also not sure I called it ego, but I can clearly see what I would call friction between him and Giannis and part of that is definitely a byproduct of him trying to expand his role since he has gotten back.

It's no surprise that he was good when he was being "super Snell" shooting open threes, occasional post up and creating for others and it is no surprise he has been garbage since going back in to the man mode and our offense has suffered greatly at the same time.

Oh I've definitely been seeing a lot of comments from multiple posters, so I wasn't singling anyone out. We saw this exact same thing from Midds last year in November and early December before he got it going the rest of the year. I think the reality that people are missing is that the precedent that Middleton has established should give everyone confidence that this is nothing more than a temporary slump.

People always seem to want to draw lines to some over-arching narrative or conspiracy when it's not there. He's been doing the dumb "ISO post ups" for a while now, it's not ego and it's not because he's jealous of Giannis' role. It's just something that you have to deal with him doing. I wish he'd do them less when his shot isn't falling, but no one complains when he makes them because it's generally a good shot for him.

Oh, I complain a bit even when he makes them because they aren't really ways for him to get those shots without being a complete ball stopper but I get your overall point.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Defense has fallen off a cliff. I wouldn't be surprised if we lose the last 3.

our offense is so disjointed with so many bad shots and turnovers the effort and right position on defense was bound to suffer.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Attributing the losses to Brogdon is a false equivalency. We don't win either of the last two with Brogdon in the lineup. Middleton and now Monroe have been really bad, that's pretty much all you need to look at.]

brogdon takes the ball out of their hands and keeps it in his own until theyre ready to knock down a bunny. delly drops it off 5 seconds into the shot clock and then gets out of the way..... that's even if he can even do that without giving up a turnover in the process.

brogdon being out is massive. MASSIVE. its why we immediately dumped jones for payton. of course that was the right move but it says something we got a d leaguer logging heavy minutes out there. with brogdon you have a player who is a plus and him out were now relying praying hoping on guys for 48 minutes that they don't **** up to bad and just totally kill us.

[LUKE23]

Anyone have our Net Rating with Parker, and then the Net Rating since he went down?