PG: Bucks Win 15th Straight over Kings

[blazza18]

Yesterday in the clutch the Bucks had a 105 offensive rating and a 126 defensive rating. Thank you Dame Time for bailing us out.

[Milbucks96]

I pretty much roll my eyes at clutch stats. I do believe we have a close game advantage over most teams because we have an elite shot creator in Dame, a very good one in Khris, and Giannis isn’t a threat away from the basket but he’s elite at putting the ball in the hoop. I just think the best teams handle business most games and the regular season clutch stuff is whatever.

[Siefer]

Griffs comments about fouling after the game weren't great. If you want to foul up 3, go ahead (I don't love it, but I understand why it's a viable strategy). But you don't do it at 17, and 11 seconds. It sounds like maybe Griff (and the rest of the staff?) don't fully understand the strategy.

[-Jragon-]

Some fancy +/- number easily skewed against garbage teams doesn't change what we've seen happen

Lineup net ratings in 500 minute samples are fancy now? Aight man lol.

It's not that hard to think about. The midrange assassin playing with the guy who gets double teamed as soon as he crosses half court and the guy who brings the entire defense to the paint when he touches the FT line. Khris gets exactly what he wants with very little resistance.

In theory that should work. If Khris chooses to attack 1v1 on closeouts or from a high post on 1-2 dribbles -- it works. If he demands the ball from Dame's hands when they are both in, it doesn't. If he dribbles through traffic, it doesn't. If we had a coach or player that could tell him to stop, it could. If he made a good decision and chose to stop it could, he hasn't. So point to to your watch in street clothes all you want but if you don't buy in to what you watched and let it happen when you are in then you can go somewhere else -- your defense has been killing us for a couple years anyways.

And no I don't care about your Net regular season BS stats because 80% of those teams won't even be in the playoffs. We know what Indy, Miami and Boston can do to Khris on defense.. $hit, he made his 6-2 PG cover his man last year in our a$$ whooping - what was our Net rating that series, genious? You think it can't happen again? The least you can do is adapt your damn game to not needing the ball in your hand and take it out of a legend point guard's hands. How selfish do you have to be to take the ball from a future hall of fame PG and he watches you kick it off your foot? Let him and Giannis find you in your favorite spots when they need you and spend more of your energy bending your knees on defense.

It's not an agenda; we will suffer the same fate as last year if something doesn't change. This issue, the roster, the coaching or some combo of the three.

[nagawicka]

Never seen anyone on this board defend someone like Sid does Griff.

Several of the 'criticisms', however one views Griffin's work, have been objectively untrue, clear instances of seeing something ordinary and ascribing negative content that really can't be read into or tacked onto Griff's words etc. Post-game comments are basically what every other head coach says, nothing more or less. Body language probly prompts or cues some reactions that diverge from objectively taking in data/statements :>> Bryn Forbes same thing LOOKED awkward, played better *than credited* in Buds scheme, no less. Less a matter of *being* unpolished (uncoordinated or inarticulate) than speaking and defending as who you are and being misread by triggered debbie downers. Hey, it's not all roses and sunbeams, but OTOH, they have to be working on all the stuff we're seeing. Agreed on Giannis inbounding to Dame for ex, but these dudes have to do it the hard way at some point.

[-Jragon-]

In fact, if you care about some fluff regular season stats against 80% garbage teams instead of working on what WILL work against Indy, Miami, Boston and Philly then your whole brain setting is wrong... after we get another 1st round exit because our big 3 still can't work together properly or defend, will you come on the Post Season thread with your regular season Net Rating stats to cheer us up? Will you? No? Then don't do that now and tell me what will work against Indy in the playoffs -- KM should dribble up while we're down 6 with 2 min left instead of finding his favorites spot to receive a pass off his 2 Hall of Fame teammates? I swear if 1 more of you gives me some fluff regular season garbage stats, I'm calling KM -- BaddyMcStupidDribbleTon the rest of the season so just don't.

[-Jragon-]

Really, really focus and remember when we lost in the playoffs, we usually knew all year we didn't match up well vs them? Well despite your cool stat it's happening again with Indy -- they are coming.. are we going to make the needed changes NOW or wait til next year after they sweep us?

[nagawicka]

Man, you guys are all focused on dumb **** like schemes, implementation of a culture, and organizational ability, but I dare you to find another head coach who can tell you what Brene Brown says about leadership for a basketball team.

Anyone who quotes Brene Brown is honestly top of the line in my book. This tells me he understand self-reflection, growth, and utilizes therapy.

That is impressive if he truly understands Brene Brown.

I've had plenty of "leaders" who quote a line from Brene Brown who are miserable leaders. Being able to read one of her books or listen to a TEDtalk does not impress me.

Yet the probability remains very strong that someone who reads her books is likely to learn and apply her insights. Because 100% of those who DON'T read her books grasp exactly 0 (zero) of her message.

[nagawicka]

Anyone who quotes Brene Brown is honestly top of the line in my book. This tells me he understand self-reflection, growth, and utilizes therapy.

That is impressive if he truly understands Brene Brown.

I've had plenty of "leaders" who quote a line from Brene Brown who are miserable leaders. Being able to read one of her books or listen to a TEDtalk does not impress me.

I just googled a couple of Brene Brown quotes and now I’m a leader! Who knew??

Guess what? They don't hand out PhDs for Googling a quote and posturing at the Comedy Cellar so

[-Jragon-]

The whistle is even different post season teams hammer you and rip the ball and you.. In fact, I don't want to see anyone on our team creating bad habits vs Detroit and Washington. that won't work in big playoff games. We've seen the result of Giannis and KM trying to dribble through playoff D and they get hammered, injured and turnovers. Work on sets vs all these teams and packages for players catching in spots they can attack from vs East playoff teams. Let's get to the finals again.

[nagawicka]

Never seen anyone on this board defend someone like Sid does Griff.

You obviously missed the Epicurus/Stotts era.

And I'm really not that strong on Griffin. I do like him, I think he's won the locker room over, he seems engaged and knowledgeable, and most importantly he seems to be overseeing steady improvement.

What drives me to long irrelevant posts are what to me appear to be unfair criticisms based on long-held opinions spouted as though they were facts.

What makes you think he's won the locker room over? I would say with the info and leaks so far that the opposite were true. You have a coach straight up quitting, Bobbys thing in Vegas, then it being intentionally leaked after, Dame looking frustrated AF and then leaving the team for a bit, Giannis openly calling out the team/coaches publicly, Dame openly complaining about his role, etc.

Though, I do grant the response from last Monday-ish to now is a positive sign to the locker room not being completely lost and maybe that bad spell got them to come together a bit. I'd grant the response from then until now is a good sign on this topic. But prior to the Bos game I have no idea how anyone could think that, it seemed there was about to be the players pushing him out.

The whole 'he's lost the locker room' schtick was so overwrought, with attending fans reading into team convos whatever they rillyrilly want to believe to be true, when ya can't always tell just by looking. No one knows the inside scoop. Exhibit A: Some Bvllsh|t = posts by 'Bucks2226'(?) presuming to claim that 'Dame is done' 'Dame has had it.' The End. Those posts were taken down. And what basis exactly permitted the claim? No one knows. Some folks like Dame are just unreadable. What's poison to the culture is running around making the worst possible claims without much evidence at all about people's mindsets, internal relations, coaching/FO game planning/ agenda/ awareness. Some infos just not available.

[nagawicka]

You obviously missed the Epicurus/Stotts era.

And I'm really not that strong on Griffin. I do like him, I think he's won the locker room over, he seems engaged and knowledgeable, and most importantly he seems to be overseeing steady improvement.

What drives me to long irrelevant posts are what to me appear to be unfair criticisms based on long-held opinions spouted as though they were facts.

What makes you think he's won the locker room over? I would say with the info and leaks so far that the opposite were true. You have a coach straight up quitting, Bobbys thing in Vegas, then it being intentionally leaked after, Dame looking frustrated AF and then leaving the team for a bit, Giannis openly calling out the team/coaches publicly, Dame openly complaining about his role, etc.

Though, I do grant the response from last Monday-ish to now is a positive sign to the locker room not being completely lost and maybe that bad spell got them to come together a bit. I'd grant the response from then until now is a good sign on this topic. But prior to the Bos game I have no idea how anyone could think that, it seemed there was about to be the players pushing him out.

As Charlie Rich once sang, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors, so the best we can do is extrapolate from what we see. And what I see is a team playing hard for their coach. The Bobby thing is just Bobby and appears to have been resolved, and as for Dame's sour puss, we're learning that that's just him, even when he makes a 35-foot buzzer-beater.

I think Griffin does ladle it on a little thick in postgame pressers. Everybody was terrific and fantastic and special, and I'm sure the overpraised players roll their eyes a bit when they hear it. But I see no evidence of resentment or mutiny and everybody seems to be pulling together. That's the main thing.

Yeh, Griff's not gonna throw a player under the bus just because a play doesn't unfold ideally. All those guys have to come through when it matters and that's coming from someone who wants Giannis inbounding and never shooting 3s or FTs to close out

[nagawicka]

What makes you think he's won the locker room over? I would say with the info and leaks so far that the opposite were true. You have a coach straight up quitting, Bobbys thing in Vegas, then it being intentionally leaked after, Dame looking frustrated AF and then leaving the team for a bit, Giannis openly calling out the team/coaches publicly, Dame openly complaining about his role, etc.

Though, I do grant the response from last Monday-ish to now is a positive sign to the locker room not being completely lost and maybe that bad spell got them to come together a bit. I'd grant the response from then until now is a good sign on this topic. But prior to the Bos game I have no idea how anyone could think that, it seemed there was about to be the players pushing him out.

As Charlie Rich once sang, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors, so the best we can do is extrapolate from what we see. And what I see is a team playing hard for their coach. The Bobby thing is just Bobby and appears to have been resolved, and as for Dame's sour puss, we're learning that that's just him, even when he makes a 35-foot buzzer-beater.

I think Griffin does ladle it on a little thick in postgame pressers. Everybody was terrific and fantastic and special, and I'm sure the overpraised players roll their eyes a bit when they hear it. But I see no evidence of resentment or mutiny and everybody seems to be pulling together. That's the main thing.

I mean, I just laid out a list of things that would qualify. These are things oft pointed to in sports as 'losing the locker room' type stuff. ETA: add to the list the players pushing to change back the drop, Brook being clearly the most frustrated he's been and constantly complaining on the court

A team playing hard is not at all what I would describe the first half of this season to be, really quite the opposite. It has been a team coasting and seemingly not caring all that much. Though again, I do grant these games bounceback and the care/effort in them does support what you're saying, prior to that though all the info/evidence idiots like us are privy to it is quite the opposite.

When the bus we're all riding in turns a corner, make sure you take a good look around so you remember next time. Don't be lookin back like that

[nagawicka]

Read on Twitter

what is a clutch game? I would guess a game where we have O-RTG: 120.9 and D-RTG: 99.5 would be over by mid third quarter

It's where you clutch your pearls but Dame and Brook and Khris relentlessly overcome a smallish deficit to drop a few late-game buckets for the win anyway. Why you askin

[Sigra]

So KM sat... and suddenly Dame Time came back again like it was last time KM sat..... shocked?

Your need to push this weird anti Khris agenda at seemingly any opportunity is so tired man. The last time Khris sat was against the 2-24 Pistons on a 22 game losing streak, like no **** Dame was able to pop off.

- Giannis/Dame lineups without Khris: -0.09 net rating in 489 minutes
- Giannis/Dame lineups with Khris: +14.82 net rating in 500 minutes

The best this team looks is when Khris is on the floor with them.

Khris is great player. OfCourse that we play better with him.

But also, there is no doubt that Dame played better when Khris was on minute restriction or when Khris didnt play.

When Khris play 30+ minutes (9 games) Dame numbers are terrible:
21 PPG
.369 FG%
.270 3P%
.894 FT%

In other 28 games Dame is much better :
26,5 PPG
.448 FG%
.380 3P%
.930 FT%

No surprise really. Dame was #1 superstar in his team for years. He will accept that he is after Giannis now. But it is probable hard for him to feel good when he is #3 option. When Midds start possessions before him. And dribble off his legs.

Now, we all hope that Khris will be healthy in playoffs and play 30+ minutes. But as we see, Dame is bad when Khris play 30+ minutes. Because when he is healthy Khris wants to be old Khris. So, its not only Giannis who wants to be same Giannis as he was before Dame. Khris also wants to be same Khris he was before Dame. They feel that this is their team. They won title together and play together for 11 years. It is clear chemistry problem with Dame and it is legit concern. Not only that we have problems at defense. We also have chemistry problem at offense.

[theFireBlanket]

So KM sat... and suddenly Dame Time came back again like it was last time KM sat..... shocked?

Your need to push this weird anti Khris agenda at seemingly any opportunity is so tired man. The last time Khris sat was against the 2-24 Pistons on a 22 game losing streak, like no **** Dame was able to pop off.

- Giannis/Dame lineups without Khris: -0.09 net rating in 489 minutes
- Giannis/Dame lineups with Khris: +14.82 net rating in 500 minutes

The best this team looks is when Khris is on the floor with them.

Khris is great player. OfCourse that we play better with him.

But also, there is no doubt that Dame played better when Khris was on minute restriction or when Khris didnt play.

When Khris play 30+ minutes (9 games) Dame numbers are terrible:
21 PPG
.369 FG%
.270 3P%
.894 FT%

In other 28 games Dame is much better :
26,5 PPG
.448 FG%
.380 3P%
.930 FT%

No surprise really. Dame was #1 superstar in his team for years. He will accept that he is after Giannis now. But it is probable hard for him to feel good when he is #3 option. When Midds start possessions before him. And dribble off his legs.

Now, we all hope that Khris will be healthy in playoffs and play 30+ minutes. But as we see, Dame is bad when Khris play 30+ minutes. Because when he is healthy Khris wants to be old Khris. So, its not only Giannis who wants to be same Giannis as he was before Dame. Khris also wants to be same Khris he was before Dame. They feel that this is their team. They won title together and play together for 11 years. It is clear chemistry problem with Dame and it is legit concern. Not only that we have problems at defense. We also have chemistry problem at offense.

Dame talks pretty glowingly of Khris. And he's not option 3. Khris is. Compare their FGA.

These 3 are better together. As highlighted by Prez, bolded.

[German Athens]

Lineup net ratings in 500 minute samples are fancy now? Aight man lol.

It's not that hard to think about. The midrange assassin playing with the guy who gets double teamed as soon as he crosses half court and the guy who brings the entire defense to the paint when he touches the FT line. Khris gets exactly what he wants with very little resistance.

In theory that should work. If Khris chooses to attack 1v1 on closeouts or from a high post on 1-2 dribbles -- it works. If he demands the ball from Dame's hands when they are both in, it doesn't. If he dribbles through traffic, it doesn't. If we had a coach or player that could tell him to stop, it could. If he made a good decision and chose to stop it could, he hasn't. So point to to your watch in street clothes all you want but if you don't buy in to what you watched and let it happen when you are in then you can go somewhere else -- your defense has been killing us for a couple years anyways.

And no I don't care about your Net regular season BS stats because 80% of those teams won't even be in the playoffs. We know what Indy, Miami and Boston can do to Khris on defense.. $hit, he made his 6-2 PG cover his man last year in our a$$ whooping - what was our Net rating that series, genious? You think it can't happen again? The least you can do is adapt your damn game to not needing the ball in your hand and take it out of a legend point guard's hands. How selfish do you have to be to take the ball from a future hall of fame PG and he watches you kick it off your foot? Let him and Giannis find you in your favorite spots when they need you and spend more of your energy bending your knees on defense.

It's not an agenda; we will suffer the same fate as last year if something doesn't change. This issue, the roster, the coaching or some combo of the three.

Khris’s on-off net rating in the Miami series was +29.0. His on-court net rating on the series was +2.6. His EPM in the series was +2.1.

His raw stat line for the series was 23.8/6.4/6.2 on 46.5/40.6/86.7. He did also average 3.4 turnovers, so he only he had a 1.8 ast/to.

[German Athens]

We should put up a statue outside fiserv for both Giannis and BaddyMcStupidDribbleTon, imo.

[emunney]

Lineup net ratings in 500 minute samples are fancy now? Aight man lol.

It's not that hard to think about. The midrange assassin playing with the guy who gets double teamed as soon as he crosses half court and the guy who brings the entire defense to the paint when he touches the FT line. Khris gets exactly what he wants with very little resistance.

In theory that should work. If Khris chooses to attack 1v1 on closeouts or from a high post on 1-2 dribbles -- it works. If he demands the ball from Dame's hands when they are both in, it doesn't. If he dribbles through traffic, it doesn't. If we had a coach or player that could tell him to stop, it could. If he made a good decision and chose to stop it could, he hasn't. So point to to your watch in street clothes all you want but if you don't buy in to what you watched and let it happen when you are in then you can go somewhere else -- your defense has been killing us for a couple years anyways.

And no I don't care about your Net regular season BS stats because 80% of those teams won't even be in the playoffs. We know what Indy, Miami and Boston can do to Khris on defense.. $hit, he made his 6-2 PG cover his man last year in our a$$ whooping - what was our Net rating that series, genious? You think it can't happen again? The least you can do is adapt your damn game to not needing the ball in your hand and take it out of a legend point guard's hands. How selfish do you have to be to take the ball from a future hall of fame PG and he watches you kick it off your foot? Let him and Giannis find you in your favorite spots when they need you and spend more of your energy bending your knees on defense.

It's not an agenda; we will suffer the same fate as last year if something doesn't change. This issue, the roster, the coaching or some combo of the three.

In theory it should work; in practice it does work. But on the other hand: a bunch of made-up bad stuff.

Bucks' net rating was TWENTY NINE points better with Khris on vs off against the Heat. In theory, it would have been easier to look this up than to type all that.

Please stop calling me a genius. Nobody will believe you.

[midranger]

I am willing to believe you’re a genious, though.