PG Portland: Loss

[DingleJerry]

"Right to move on" only works as justification if you move on to better things, we got the fool's gold by getting Dame for less than we expected but he has not been a good fit & this team looks further from contention than it did last year or the year before that. Portlant was "right to move on" from Dame, now we're holding the bag

I don't have any loyalty to the guy because he played in Portland for 10 years, idgaf who cares

soft no D scoring PGs aren't winning players, especially when they need to pound the ball to be effective

except he's always won until they tanked last two years.

Several bad D scoring PGs have won and gone to final fours. Top of my head Curry, Kyrie, Murray, Harden, Dame, Young, Nash, Parker. Think Mitchell has only one round of playoffs several times, but not made wcf. I guess you have no interest in acquiring Halliburton or Luca in the future too.

The rules have made on ball pg D almost impossible. You have to work out a team system behind and yea a guy like Dame if he wants to get over the hump has to put in more attention than he's been now that he doesn't have the O burden like in the past. But 5 games with new coach and eye test that has been there by him and all. Games have gotten back to normalcy so far rather than all star game feels. Hopefully they add a good defender of some kind and then they all keep improving together, get smoother on O and then they have a chance in playoffs.

But yea, it was right to move on from Jrue. There was no guarantee this would win a championship and we knew going it was to give up D for O since O is what killed them in the playoffs every year. It was possible he'd get hurt and it be a disaster, he's not young, contract is big, it was the risk but it was a no brainer trade you had to do especially for how little they gave up. There is some alternate timelines of acquiring scorer types a tier below (sexton types) that should not have required Jrue/KM in the trades that would've been interesting. But I'd rather go this route than be on the hook for Jrue at 40 mil per year til he's like 38.

[jschligs]

I refuse to make a judgement on that trade until the end of the season. Players can do poorly in the regular season and pop off come playoffs. I'm hopeful Dame can. Currently shooting his worst 3P% since 2014-15 (not counting his injured season) so he could very well turn it around.

[CharityStripe34]

I wasn't able to watch last night, but the first thing I see on Bucks RGM is this thread title and I sort of chuckled knowing that the Bucks lost to a garbage POR team, and that there would be a double-digit page count.

[msiris]

Yea this notion that dame never won or isn't a winning player is off. But you know Ringz. His teams consistently overperformed its roster and he made a WCF with a blah roster at best. Had a pretty good team around him when he was young with Aldridge/Wes Batum etc, they all left and everyone thought the team would suck since he was the onl one left. It kept winning.

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.

Their ball screen stuff is still clunky as hell, but at least you could see the effort being put into it last night. They keep doing that for rest of year guys this good will figure it out on O. O won't be the problem. Killer other than him off shooting was he and Giannis had that odd stretch early 4th with the brutal turnovers, seemed out of both trying to hard and trying to force passes instead of just playing.

Effort/care level was there again from folks last night, including guys like Dame/Beaz on D where there has to be improvement. Bad loss, no way around it. But this is the type of bad loss if Griff (now Doc) had early season I'd chalk up to the 'have to comfortable' that was used for griff. Difference is the games for Griff back then were wtf is going on level stuff. Didn't get that vibe last night. Only wtf moments were those brutal turnovers. Other than that things looked organized/composed, effort was there.

That is the whole objecive in the NBA is to win rings. Rings or bust baby.

So if Durant shot was a 3 Giannis would not be a winner player, got it. Context doesn't matter, got it. The luandry list of all time greats who didn't ringz aren't winning players.

Dame isn't/wasn't good enough to win it all as the #1 player unless he lucked into a loaded ass team like Curry, that doesn't mean a guy isn't a winning player. He needed to be the #2 to win it all. But its total bs to bash guys who consistently win as the #1 and win playoff series as the #1 as if they aren't winners due to ringz

Hey its just me. Not a fan other team or just players. I am a fan of the Bucks. The goal is to win chips. I like smart basketball. Giannis won a chip without another superstar next to him. That makes him elite. Dame is not elite since flawed. Great player yes. Great fit maybe not.

[JayMKE]

But I'd rather go this route than be on the hook for Jrue at 40 mil per year til he's like 38.

Dude you might have a heart attack if you see what the Bucks owe Dame going forward, I'm at least confident Jrue is still going to be a solid defender by the end of his contract. I wasn't ever against the concept of trading Jrue anyways, this wasn't the only route by any means.

[JimmyTheKid]

But I'd rather go this route than be on the hook for Jrue at 40 mil per year til he's like 38.

Dude you might have a heart attack if you see what the Bucks owe Dame going forward, I'm at least confident Jrue is still going to be a solid defender by the end of his contract. I wasn't ever against the concept of trading Jrue anyways, this wasn't the only route by any means.

After the Doc hire and the incessant Dame bashing, I'm pretty sure you're the Bucks fan closest to the heart attack. Maybe step. away. from. the. computer. for. awhile.

[sidney lanier]

I'll never understand the Middleton complaints, and I expect them to subside considerably as this team rounds into form and he reasserts his value.

From the midrange it's Khash or Durant
The difference between them is scant
They're reliably sure
With a touch that is pure
Only one makes us grumble and rant

[DingleJerry]

But I'd rather go this route than be on the hook for Jrue at 40 mil per year til he's like 38.

Dude you might have a heart attack if you see what the Bucks owe Dame going forward, I'm at least confident Jrue is still going to be a solid defender by the end of his contract. I wasn't ever against the concept of trading Jrue anyways, this wasn't the only route by any means.

No I'm not, Dame only has 3 years left after this. Yes its higher amounts but its only 3 years through age 36. Yes, I do not want to give him a contract after that and I don't think the team has any plans to.

Jrue can be a FA in 4 months. So you're tacking on 4-5 more years when he's 34 years old. I would have no confidence in the bucks not just giving him near max assuming he played fine in the regular season like he had been doing. Basically the difference is one is an impending FA that nba standards these days basically forces you to give a massive contract, the other is not. Essentially it moves the decision out a couple more years and then re-assess what to do with Dame then.

[DingleJerry]

That is the whole objecive in the NBA is to win rings. Rings or bust baby.

So if Durant shot was a 3 Giannis would not be a winner player, got it. Context doesn't matter, got it. The luandry list of all time greats who didn't ringz aren't winning players.

Dame isn't/wasn't good enough to win it all as the #1 player unless he lucked into a loaded ass team like Curry, that doesn't mean a guy isn't a winning player. He needed to be the #2 to win it all. But its total bs to bash guys who consistently win as the #1 and win playoff series as the #1 as if they aren't winners due to ringz

Hey its just me. Not a fan other team or just players. I am a fan of the Bucks. The goal is to win chips. I like smart basketball. Giannis won a chip without another superstar next to him. That makes him elite. Dame is not elite since flawed. Great player yes. Great fit maybe not.

He was elite regardless if KD made that a 3 or not. Winning the title doesn't change the player he is. Say that shot was a 3 instead or that Kyrie didn't get hurt and bucks lose, would you be agreeing with national media or boston fans calling Giannis a losing player? That's what I'm saying. It would be total bs. He would be the same he was and saying he's not a winning player because he had a mediocre supporting cast would be bs.

If Scott Norwood makes that FG in the SB it does not make Jim Kelly a better QB.

[pifhluk23]

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.
.

He's definitely not a chucker but he's coming off a 27.8 3p% January, well below career average fg and 3p on the year when he should be higher with less usage and more open looks on this team. It's concerning.

[WeekapaugGroove]

So if Durant shot was a 3 Giannis would not be a winner player, got it. Context doesn't matter, got it. The luandry list of all time greats who didn't ringz aren't winning players.

Dame isn't/wasn't good enough to win it all as the #1 player unless he lucked into a loaded ass team like Curry, that doesn't mean a guy isn't a winning player. He needed to be the #2 to win it all. But its total bs to bash guys who consistently win as the #1 and win playoff series as the #1 as if they aren't winners due to ringz

Hey its just me. Not a fan other team or just players. I am a fan of the Bucks. The goal is to win chips. I like smart basketball. Giannis won a chip without another superstar next to him. That makes him elite. Dame is not elite since flawed. Great player yes. Great fit maybe not.

He was elite regardless if KD made that a 3 or not. Winning the title doesn't change the player he is. Say that shot was a 3 instead or that Kyrie didn't get hurt and bucks lose, would you be agreeing with national media or boston fans calling Giannis a losing player? That's what I'm saying. It would be total bs. He would be the same he was and saying he's not a winning player because he had a mediocre supporting cast would be bs.

If Scott Norwood makes that FG in the SB it does not make Jim Kelly a better QB.

You're 100% logically right but in sports one play you're not even involved with or have any control over can absolutely have a huge impact on your legacy.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

[msiris]

But I'd rather go this route than be on the hook for Jrue at 40 mil per year til he's like 38.

Dude you might have a heart attack if you see what the Bucks owe Dame going forward, I'm at least confident Jrue is still going to be a solid defender by the end of his contract. I wasn't ever against the concept of trading Jrue anyways, this wasn't the only route by any means.

After the Doc hire and the incessant Dame bashing, I'm pretty sure you're the Bucks fan closest to the heart attack. Maybe step. away. from. the. computer. for. awhile.

To be honest Dame is the better player of the two. But in the end it might matte anyways. A better question is would a Dame, Jrue combination be better than Dame , Beas and Middleton combination? Hard to get a honest opinions here because there is so much player bias.

[BUCKnation]

Feels like we may have ended up trading for this Damian instead

[DingleJerry]

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.
.

He's definitely not a chucker but he's coming off a 27.8 3p% January, well below career average fg and 3p on the year when he should be higher with less usage and more open looks on this team. It's concerning.

Yea he's shot poorly the last few weeks with all the bs going on. In Dec he was right on his norms. Shooting poor doesn't mean chucker, he plays as a team and moves the ball. That's not chucker.

[DingleJerry]

Hey its just me. Not a fan other team or just players. I am a fan of the Bucks. The goal is to win chips. I like smart basketball. Giannis won a chip without another superstar next to him. That makes him elite. Dame is not elite since flawed. Great player yes. Great fit maybe not.

He was elite regardless if KD made that a 3 or not. Winning the title doesn't change the player he is. Say that shot was a 3 instead or that Kyrie didn't get hurt and bucks lose, would you be agreeing with national media or boston fans calling Giannis a losing player? That's what I'm saying. It would be total bs. He would be the same he was and saying he's not a winning player because he had a mediocre supporting cast would be bs.

If Scott Norwood makes that FG in the SB it does not make Jim Kelly a better QB.

You're 100% logically right but in sports one play you're not even involved with or have any control over can absolutely have a huge impact on your legacy.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

Yea and legacy talking head bs should have no bearing on team building.

Clyde Drexler: think if this ringz espn twitter stuff of back then. He loses two finals as the #1 so "can't win with him, losing player". Oh then he goes to another team and is the #2 and wins two ringz. Could probably find countless other examples of this too.

[DingleJerry]

Dude you might have a heart attack if you see what the Bucks owe Dame going forward, I'm at least confident Jrue is still going to be a solid defender by the end of his contract. I wasn't ever against the concept of trading Jrue anyways, this wasn't the only route by any means.

After the Doc hire and the incessant Dame bashing, I'm pretty sure you're the Bucks fan closest to the heart attack. Maybe step. away. from. the. computer. for. awhile.

To be honest Dame is the better player of the two. But in the end it might matte anyways. A better question is would a Dame, Jrue combination be better than Dame , Beas and Middleton combination? Hard to get a honest opinions here because there is so much player bias.

Yup that was a big discussion on here leading up to it as an in general which one to trade. Trick with Jrue is that he is one of the better fits to put next to Dame since they compliment each other well. But, you had the stuff I listed earlier coming up on him contractwise and he didn't have the ties to Giannis. Also, KM was off injuries so would he have had the trade value to get Dame?

I think my view at the time was in general for a shake up trade for whoever I was on the side of trading Jrue first. But specific to a Dame trade and the fit I would have preferred keeping Jrue. But I can't recall for sure, might have been on the get out from Jrue regardless.

[msiris]

too much overreacting to shooting variance from a long range shooter. This is part of it. He did not forget how to shoot in 6 months. He shot like trash last night later in the game. But the chucker label also is off here, he shot bad and the last few mins he instead kept making the right pass playing as a team instead of.....chucking.
.

He's definitely not a chucker but he's coming off a 27.8 3p% January, well below career average fg and 3p on the year when he should be higher with less usage and more open looks on this team. It's concerning.

Yea he's shot poorly the last few weeks with all the bs going on. In Dec he was right on his norms. Shooting poor doesn't mean chucker, he plays as a team and moves the ball. That's not chucker.

I think it funny when other players score on volume they are labled chuckers. When Dame scores 25 on 23 shots what else is it?

[DingleJerry]

He's definitely not a chucker but he's coming off a 27.8 3p% January, well below career average fg and 3p on the year when he should be higher with less usage and more open looks on this team. It's concerning.

Yea he's shot poorly the last few weeks with all the bs going on. In Dec he was right on his norms. Shooting poor doesn't mean chucker, he plays as a team and moves the ball. That's not chucker.

I think it funny when other players score on volume they are labled chuckers. When Dame scores 25 on 23 shots what else is it?

chuckers are black holes with the ball and term is usually reserved for guards/wings and like you said get on volume with low efficiency. Dame is not a black hole and in his career has had great efficiency. But yes, games are going to happen when you shoot poorly leading to inefficient games, doesn't mean they're a chucker. Can't overreact to them, variance happens with long range shooting.

[CannondaleF400]

Seemed like the team was deferring to Dame in this game so he could have a big night. Then in the critical moment Dame passed the ball to Lopez. I would have rather seen Dame force up something in this homecoming game. Defense was better in second half.

[msiris]

Yea he's shot poorly the last few weeks with all the bs going on. In Dec he was right on his norms. Shooting poor doesn't mean chucker, he plays as a team and moves the ball. That's not chucker.

I think it funny when other players score on volume they are labled chuckers. When Dame scores 25 on 23 shots what else is it?

chuckers are black holes with the ball and term is usually reserved for guards/wings and like you said get on volume with low efficiency. Dame is not a black hole and in his career has had great efficiency. But yes, games are going to happen when you shoot poorly leading to inefficient games, doesn't mean they're a chucker. Can't overreact to them, variance happens with long range shooting.

Ok. What do you call it when it a bad shot? Some of his threes are ugly. In fact the last two games have beenclose and down the stretch we have put up some really bad shots and made some stupid TOs. This is why Iam not that high on them. One thing that has not changed over the years is low bbiq.