PG Memphis: Still Old, Slow, Disinterested, Pathetic

[RiotPunch]

Are there still people who don’t think Bud was a top five coach?

Giannis didn't, so does it really even matter?

The only related comment that Giannis made was by replying Yes when asked by the press, would you have wanted to defend Butler.

Not trying to do insider BS, but I have it on good authority that Giannis wanted Bud out.

[FrieAaron]

I've said it before, but how fortunate for Bud that the players he won a title with all fell off in the exact same year. This has been a major careful what you wish for season for Giannis. Unfortunately, it very well may haunt the team for years to come.

[El Pooch Grande]

Are there still people who don’t think Bud was a top five coach?

Bud should honestly be the coach next year

[FrieAaron]

Are there still people who don’t think Bud was a top five coach?

Bud should honestly be the coach next year

He'll probably be busy making Dallas contenders

[-Jragon-]

I mean... we kind of knew we needed 3 and D guys around Giannis since 2018 or so.... Portis isn't but he tries hard which is nice, KM was but hasn't had D since the hammy, Dame is another superstar, Crowder was but is a shell of himself, Pat is trying so hard but still isnt, Brook is the only 1 and he lost a step or 2, tell me one 3 and D guy we actually found to surround GA with...

We had to trade 2 to get our 2nd superstar but Grayson wasn't playoff reliable and Jrue wasn't superstar enough to help Giannis in the 4th quarter. I don't know who to blame.. we got lucky with Green but it doesn't look like Beas/KM can stop anyone or anything defensively.

You guys will say we gave away Donte but he has yet to have even 1 useful playoff run where teams don't leave him wide open to miss just so the superstar doesn't get the ball.

[-Jragon-]

At this point it seems Doc is willing to die on the hill running out KM and Beas for 35/30 plus minutes respectively whether or not their offense is on and whether or not they are getting completely toasted on D.

[-Jragon-]

Anyways.. I'm all in.. I'm here for it... if Doc wants to die on the hill with them cats then I'm going on the hill too with him... if he doesn't get us past the 2nd round then he's gone though right? Get someone who can develop our young talent and mix in the vets instead?

[Sigra]

Everything is going as expected. #2 at East and veteran team resting at the end of season saving energy for playoffs. In playoffs they will switch to new gear and look much better. But not enough to win title or even conference.

Very talented team but with disbalance between defense and offense. Not enough talent at defense and too much talent at offense. Yes, I say "too much" because there is only 1 ball, and we have 3 stars who are not off-ball players and want ball in their hands. That is not going to work but should be interesting.

I never had big expectations from Giannis-Middleton team. To be 100% honest I didn't expect them to win 1 title. They did win that one title with incredible luck (injuries to other best teams) but that will be all, I think. And that is ok. We are regularly top 3 team at East after regular season (1-1-3-3-1-2) and division champion for 6 straight years. And we have 1 ring.

That is incredible achievement for team with superstar that can't shoot (and use too much energy/body in things that he can do) and his sidekick is always injured can't dribble 2nd round pick (39th overall).

After we won that ring, we kept players that we should have traded (Middleton and Lopez) because of loyalty and because of love. And I am ok with that at the end of day. They are our legends and will always love them. But now we are old and without any way to improve.

We had to make Dame trade. That was our final attempt to win at least 1 more ring. And that is good attempt. Now we have chance at least in theory to win it if Dame goes crazy in playoffs. Hitting shoots from halfcourt and things. With Jrue there was no scenario to win it unless other good teams all have injuries the same way they did in 2021. But nobody is that lucky 2 times.

I will admit that I didn't watch Portland enough to know how bad Dame at defense is. He is one of the worst defenders I ever saw. But still, we had to make that trade. It will look better if we have defender at SG, but it is what it is.

At the end of day, I didn't have many expectations, so I am not disappointed much. And I know that 5 years from now we will all look at those years with nostalgic feelings. We will miss those times and we should enjoy those times much more. 1 ring, 6 straight division champions and regular season of 1-1-3-3-1-2 are so rare. There are so many great teams that didn't win a single ring. Stockton-Malone Jazz, Ewing Knicks, Pacers with Miller, hell LeBron won only 1 with so many great Cavs teams. DR J was able to get only 1. Dirk got only 1. Sir Charles 0. Nash 0.

Giannis is great player but let's be real here. He can't shoot. Is he that much better than Dirk or Sir Charles?

The good thing is that this year we are entering playoff with low expectations. The last we did that was 2021. So, who knows.

Go Bucks

[soxperry]

If youre at all upset over the last two games, just go take a break and do something else until the playoffs start. This is all a nothing burger. The team has risen to the challenge nearly every single time we have played a top 10 team. We are the vet team with a ring that cant be bothered with try hards now.

[JayMKE]

Anyways.. I'm all in.. I'm here for it... if Doc wants to die on the hill with them cats then I'm going on the hill too with him... if he doesn't get us past the 2nd round then he's gone though right? Get someone who can develop our young talent and mix in the vets instead?

They’re not going to eat Bud, Griff, and Doc’s contract + pay a new coach. Doc is our guy for the foreseeable future no matter what.

The talent and roster construction is the issue morw than anything else, Horst has **** everything up. Lopez, Khris, and Dame have to go otherwise there isn’t any point worrying what this team does, its not a contender and hasn’t looked like one all year. Don’t matter who they have coaching this team, they’re old af anyways. Just not good enough.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Are there still people who don’t think Bud was a top five coach?

duh right?

and oddly ive been viewed as an idiot for suggesting it since day one. the idea we needed some huge "coaching shakeup" is hilarious.

bud was the one thing holding all these clowns together. how you needed this season to figure that out i have no words for you

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Sadly, Giannis will go down as yet another Wisconsin sports great who should've won more than 1 title.

disagree with this post. i think its marvelous he got his one tho

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I've said it before, but how fortunate for Bud that the players he won a title with all fell off in the exact same year. This has been a major careful what you wish for season for Giannis. Unfortunately, it very well may haunt the team for years to come.

we had the top record in the league and then a playoff series where giannis got hurt and on a short clock with a small window after he got back we choked the miami series. it wasnt really talent issue as much imo a heart and brains issue. would the players still buy in? clearly we dominated the regular season with the system again in a general way altho i think the players were tuning bud out the general scheme was obvious still working well.

so there was very little that needed to be fixed last year except the players needed to come back **** hungry and self aware enough not to demand entitlement. but instead of looking deeply into the mirror all the guys starting with giannis decided being sorry ass pussy mfers calling for the coaches head was a better idea. trading the starting backcourt for a past his prime chucker all to appease the superstar and get him to sign is also an indictment on the cancer at the heart of the team.

the hell with them all. ive said the hell with them since the day bud got fired because this outcome was obvious to me. **** these guys. all of them.

and only one way out and ive stated that since day one too. youll see.....well wait to long to trade these mfers too and just compound this mess for a decade. you want hope you trade them ALL for the best value you can get starting with whoever has the most. clear the cap and load up with a great haul. if doc wants to coach em fine. if not who cares but the deal is dame and giannis go FIRST... not last.... FIRST.

[Ron Swanson]

Was curious so I was perusing through the last several champions and how they performed post-ASB, and I guess the silver lining is that there really isn't any correlation here.

2023 Denver: 12-11 (+0.4 net-rating)
2022 Warriors: 11-12 (+2.0 net-rating)
2021 Bucks: 14-9 (just did the last 23-games due to Covid delays)
2019 Raptors: 15-8 (+7.2 net-rating)
2018 Warriors: 14-10 (+0.9 net-rating)

Last season we finished with the best post-ASB record (17-7, +4.0 net-rating) and it ultimately didn't matter once Giannis got hurt. This'll probably be the biggest test of the "switch-flipping" theory we've seen in this era of Bucks basketball though. Who knows.

FYI, Bucks are currently 12-8 with a +3.7 net-rating post-ASB.

[yannisk]

Just rest Giannis, Bev and whoever is injured to at least get in the playoffs healthy. It does not seem we can get any rhythm or chemistry anyway

[paulpressey25]

bud was the one thing holding all these clowns together. how you needed this season to figure that out i have no words for you

It was clear that Giannis and others in the organization wanted a fresh voice. So Bud got canned. It's all part of human nature, and happens all the time in sports. Heck, if Mike Holmgren could have just gotten along with Ron Wolf, I'm convinced the Packers would have gotten another SB title.

But yes, I've been with you all along on this. Bud was either our Pop or our Jerry Sloan. And when you fire a top 5 coach, the chances you will get someone better are slim to none. The Bucks talent base wasn't like taking over the prime Steph/Klay/Draymond Warriors.

There are a couple strengths that Bud had, that people are now starting to appreciate.

1. He knew the strengths and weaknesses of his players inside and out. And ran a system that got the most out of each guy. We complain about Bud being too rigid. It was a weakness, but was also a strength.

2. Horst. Think Horst is a very good GM. That said, think most don't realize how much influence Bud had in personnel moves. Bud was a big part of buying low on FA's that he felt would fit his system. Whether it was Pat, Brook or bringing in Jrue among others. Horst has a much tougher job right now, both in which vets to bring in, and recruiting them.

Last May, everyone in that organization (and the fanbase) just needed to take a chill pill, and acknowledge that the team wasn't that talented, and their playoff losses the prior two years had a lot more to do with Middleton and Giannis being injured than Bud's coaching.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

bud was the one thing holding all these clowns together. how you needed this season to figure that out i have no words for you

But yes, I've been with you all along on this. Bud was either our Pop or our Jerry Sloan. And when you fire a top 5 coach, the chances you will get someone better are slim to none. The Bucks talent base wasn't like taking over the prime Steph/Klay/Draymond Warriors.

agree with everything you wrote in your post and wanted to acknowledge that yes you have been with me all along. one of the few. that part of my comment to you was rhetorical in the sense of how others here didnt see it the way we clearly could this summer when it happened.

anyway keep preaching on! as a mod youre bound here. ive been less inteested in this team than ive been for 20+ years since the summer so until a reset occurs into something i can be proud of again youll be on your own addressing whats really going on here most of the time

[Karsenmitsche]

bud was the one thing holding all these clowns together. how you needed this season to figure that out i have no words for you

It was clear that Giannis and others in the organization wanted a fresh voice. So Bud got canned. It's all part of human nature, and happens all the time in sports. Heck, if Mike Holmgren could have just gotten along with Ron Wolf, I'm convinced the Packers would have gotten another SB title.

But yes, I've been with you all along on this. Bud was either our Pop or our Jerry Sloan. And when you fire a top 5 coach, the chances you will get someone better are slim to none. The Bucks talent base wasn't like taking over the prime Steph/Klay/Draymond Warriors.

There are a couple strengths that Bud had, that people are now starting to appreciate.

1. He knew the strengths and weaknesses of his players inside and out. And ran a system that got the most out of each guy. We complain about Bud being too rigid. It was a weakness, but was also a strength.

2. Horst. Think Horst is a very good GM. That said, think most don't realize how much influence Bud had in personnel moves. Bud was a big part of buying low on FA's that he felt would fit his system. Whether it was Pat, Brook or bringing in Jrue among others. Horst has a much tougher job right now, both in which vets to bring in, and recruiting them.

Last May, everyone in that organization (and the fanbase) just needed to take a chill pill, and acknowledge that the team wasn't that talented, and their playoff losses the prior two years had a lot more to do with Middleton and Giannis being injured than Bud's coaching.

Yep

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

id also like to point out another thing. players are like bows and arrows. there are very few bows and lots of wonderful arrows.

steph is a bow. lebron is a bow. joker is a bow....... going back thru history most every alltime great repeat champions were bows.

giannis is an arrow. he needs a bow. if we couldnt put a player next to him when he was young and receptive and could have been held accountable.....who was a bow.... which would have been very hard.... then the closest thing next was having a coach like bud.

most other coaches are going to coach giannis like he is a bow but hes not... hes an arrow. one hell of an arrow but an arrow nonetheless.

and now hes to the point of his career where a coach dare not call him out publically for all the little things he **** the bed with. and the other guys either. dame may even be worse it appears. watching middleton get legitimately pissy with doc over a triple double just made me smh with whats going on with the big picture on this team too. just grow up already khris wtf

the roster is old and entitled and obviously cant tell them a thing. the damn things over

[paulpressey25]

steph is a bow. lebron is a bow. joker is a bow....... going back thru history most every alltime great repeat champions were bows.

giannis is an arrow. he needs a bow.

I view Giannis as Shaq. Different players, different eras so the comparison isn't dead on. But same thing.

Shaq didn't win a title until he got paired with Kobe and Phil. Or Wade and Pat Riley.

Shaq was a force of nature player. Guy every coach had to account for every second he was on the court. But didn't have a Jordan/LeBron/Steph ability to score from everywhere on the court at all times.

That said, I don't think it was unreasonable to assume that adding Dame would get him across the line for another title (and it still may). The mistake was not keeping Bud around to maximize their talents and those of the role players.