Maybe Skiles will actually get to Charlie V.

stillgotgame · Post #1 » by **stillgotgame** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:53 pm

Charlie Villanueva has offensive skills superior to any member of this team. He can break his man down in a variety of ways. He can rebound at a high rate. He has good size for a PF, although he needs to add strength. He can play defense, he actually averaged 1.8 blocks per game in college. But he is lazy. He is apethetic. He plays when he wants to play.
What if Skiles could reach him? What if Skiles and CV bonded? What if Charlie brought it every night.? He could be a dominant player, and we need a dominant player.
I am pumped that Skiles is coach. I just hope that he learned from the past to work with his players and reach out to them and then kick their butt.

crkone · Post #2 » by **crkone** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:03 pm

If CV stays he is going to be one player that is going to be given no leash at all. I could see CV being yelled at for no reason and being in the doghouse from day one just by reputation. If he could somehow ingrain higher basketball IQ into him he may be able to work in Skiles system.

carmelbrownqueen · Post #3 » by **carmelbrownqueen** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:05 pm

Honestly there hasn't been a coach on any level that could get Charlie to use his obvious gifts to it's fullest potential on a night in and night out basis. And I have given up hope on anyone getting through to him. At this point, I just think Charlie is who is he is.. and will probably end up playing a roll off someone's bench as a 6'9 bomber on various teams. He isn't starting material on a winning team because he just doesn't have the focus, desire, lateral quickness, and work ethic to ever become the player most dream of him being.

It's unfortunate..

stillgotgame · Post #4 » by **stillgotgame** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:06 pm

I think Charlie has a good basketball IQ, he just needs to use it. He's just lazy, not dumb

carmelbrownqueen · Post #5 » by **carmelbrownqueen** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:09 pm

stillgotgame wrote:I think Charlie has a good basketball IQ, he just needs to use it. He's just lazy, not dumb

Yeah supposedly his has a good bball IQ, but thinks of himself as more Reggie Miller than Lamar Odom or Sheed Wallace like.

Dags · Post #6 » by **Dags** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:12 pm

The "If someone could reach him he'd be an amazing player" is the thread the Bucks will be hanging their trade hopes on.

Lets not fool ourselves into thinking Skiles will be that guy. It's very unlikely anyone will be that guy.

stillgotgame · Post #7 » by **stillgotgame** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:22 pm

Dags wrote:The "If someone could reach him he'd be an amazing player" is the thread the Bucks will be hanging their trade hopes on.

Lets not fool ourselves into thinking Skiles will be that guy. It's very unlikely anyone will be that guy.

What is the alternative? Yi is going to be all kinds of problems next year if he is here. I would find out if CV and Skiles can communicate before I trade CV.

BlueJeep · Post #8 » by **BlueJeep** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:23 pm

get too......... trading him

MikeIsGood · Post #9 » by **MikeIsGood** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:30 pm

stillgotgame wrote:He can play defense, he actually averaged 1.8 blocks per game in college.

Blocking shots does not mean you can play defense. If we got some blocks out of CV it would be nice, but that's still a far cry from actually being a good defender, including positioning, strength, lateral movement, and possibly most of all desire, which CV has never shown on any level.

People have been saying it for years - give Charlie his high school teammate Luol Deng's attitude towards the game and you'd have a completely different, and better, player.

As a bit of a UCONN follower, I had hopes for Charlie when we acquired him. I was hoping he'd kick his old lazy habits and show some signs of life. Didn't happen. Some flashes, but he's always shown flashes. I for one am not convinced even a tough-nosed coach like Skiles will get to him.

unklchuk · Post #10 » by **unklchuk** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:57 pm

"am not convinced even a tough-nosed coach like Skiles will get to him"

Neither am I but it seems worth a shot.

I know consistency in basketball is next to Godliness, but I could live with him being inconsistent. I think CV may lack that inner drive that says "I must excel, right now!" But I'd be OK if his consistency varied some, but averaged as a productive player. And actually improved in clutch situations that he (and we) felt were important (like the playoffs).

I'm still thinking (hoping?) that he's a smart player but one capable of really dumb plays because his mind isn't concentrating.

On a terrible, terrible team like my Milwaukee Bucks last season, some players are still motivated (for a host of inner and professional reasons) to play well. I don't think CV is one of them. I think he knows the games don't matter, and he doesn't try to trick himself into thinking they do.

I wouldn't "design" a player like that, but I'd like to see him on our roster at the start of the coming season. See how he reacts to the new team culture. To Skiles. Then decide if he belongs...

bigkurty · Post #11 » by **bigkurty** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:59 pm

CV reminds me of Tim Thomas and no one ever got through to him so I say trade him immediately. With the way he finished off the year scoring and rebounding, his value might never be this high again.

unklchuk · Post #12 » by **unklchuk** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:07 pm

^ That's certainly a reasonable position to take.

Although my sense of Tim T and Charlie V are not that similar. I thought Tim T never wanted to be serious. I think Charlie V does, but perhaps not about hoops.

If I was GM, I'd never make the call with my level of ignorance. I'd analyze the man and then decide whether to sell the promise or try to develop it.

carmelbrownqueen · Post #13 » by **carmelbrownqueen** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:19 pm

bigkurty wrote:CV reminds me of Tim Thomas and no one ever got through to him so I say trade him immediately. With the way he finished off the year scoring and rebounding, his value might never be this high again.

You know what's absolutely hilarious about that comparison..When it was first even suggested on this board that we trade for Charlie V. I said he is a lot like Tim Thomas and I was absolutely crucified for even the suggestion. I said back then that he was lazy, unfocused and didn't try on the defensive end.. but again, that was refuted because the Toronto Raptors were smart enough to keep issues with his laziness quiet until after we traded for him. Charlie V. was the PF of the future who was the greatest thing since sliced bread next to Bogut.. and now we are back to praying we can get SOMETHING for him, and more people are comparing him to Tim Thomas. Completely hilarious.

crkone · Post #14 » by **crkone** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:52 pm

You guys just showed how he has a bad BB IQ. He get lost on defensive rotations and he doesn't always understand when he should drive to the lane or pull up for a three. Of course he can make the extra pass once in a while, but I don't think that someone is going to be able to teach him how to efficiently play offense and defense.

stillgotgame · Post #15 » by **stillgotgame** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:57 pm

Although I agree CV is similar to TT in that he is lazy, and gets the least out of his potential, thats it for comparing the 2. CV can break his man down, TT could not. This is the most important skill to have on an NBA team, a guy who can take his guy one on one. The great players have it - the good ones do not. CV has it, can Skiles help him find it and get him to put forth effort night in, night out? Thats the question I want to see answered.

SupremeHustle · Post #16 » by **SupremeHustle** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:03 pm

CV at his laziest put up better numbers than HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED BECAUSE LUKE THINKS I'M BASHING HIM TOO MUCH.

I will give HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED BECAUSE LUKE THINKS I'M BASHING HIM TOO MUCH credit for effort though. I do believe he tried his best out there.

Andrew34r · Post #17 » by **Andrew34r** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:04 pm

I really hope we dont keep him around...he just doesnt care...there have been plenty of examples of this but it is just far too frustrating watching the guy play. He is a bench player and he should not whine and play like s*&^ when he goes to the bench...he should give it 100% which obviously is not something that he does.

Nowak008 · Post #18 » by **Nowak008** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:04 pm

Best offensive player on the team? I suppose if you only count his good games. CV is not close to the efficiency of either Mo or Redd. One thing that is encouraging is CV was actually making his 3 point attempts.

I think Skiles will have a better chance of getting Mo to defend given Mo's work eithic.

aboveAverage · Post #19 » by **aboveAverage** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:40 pm

Skiles can't change him. Charlie is impervious to outside influence on his play. Only Charlie Villanueva, himself, can mature and push himself to work harder. I think when he starts getting older, he will mature by himself. He still acts like a little kid right now. And I think the bucks have to move him. We can't wait for Charlie V to grow up, who knows how long that could take.

NeedsMoreCheese · Post #20 » by **NeedsMoreCheese** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:43 pm

Nowak008 wrote:Best offensive player on the team? I suppose if you only count his good games. CV is not close to the efficiency of either Mo or Redd. One thing that is encouraging is CV was actually making his 3 point attempts.

I think Skiles will have a better chance of getting Mo to defend given Mo's work eithic.

Id say CV is probably the most talented offensive player on this team. Not that he produces (as noted, hes lazy like Tim Thomas), but based on his talent and size, I think theres a very good possibility he is. Its a shame though because I doubt he'll ever "get it". Im fine with maybe holding on to CV a little longer to see if Skiles can get his value a little higher. But you definitely dont want to make the Tim Thomas mistake and hold on to him too long. Otherwise his value ends up plummeting and he becomes a big waste of cap space.