Summer league thread

[bigkurty]

We didn't exactly do our homework on a lot of other players like Speights either which leaves me wondering when this RJ thing came up. Did it come up as a possibility on draft day or the day before or something? Remember we did not exactly see this one coming and there were no rumors out there about this trade before it really occurred from what I remember so could it be that it happened last minute and we then decided we didn't really know about anyone else worth picking around that point. That could explain the reason to still take JA.

[Jez2983]

I think I mentioned this before but I reckon Speights will be the second-best big in the draft after Beasley. I think he has all the tools to be a great player, moreso than Love and Lopez.

However, to temper this he also strikes me as the contract-year player that will play fantastically well when he has something to gain or if he really feels like it, ala CV.

Still go with first prediction, though.

[Rockmaninoff]

Speights in 4 games...

32 mpg
19 pts
10 rbs
1.8 blks
.536% FG
.640 FT
4.0 pf and 1.75 TO

...it's only the summer league, but he is playing very well. I wonder if he ends up buried behind Brand, Dalembert, Evans, and Smith? I doubt, and I see him contributing as a rookie.

If there was one guy I wanted after my top 5 (Rose, Beasley, Mayo, Love, Gallinari) it was Speights. Especially, after I read the Chad Ford column detailing how Speights dominated Alexander in the workout Ford viewed. After I read that, of course I knew that we would be taking Alexander, just for the fact that I liked Speights and he made more sense. You see, I rarely get what I want.

Oh well. Maybe we can draft a big next year. Besides Griffin though, I don't think there is a comparable prospect to Speights in next year's draft.

[fam3381]

No question Speights is incredibly talented, that was evident all last season. It sounds like the only reason he wasn't a top five pick was that people questioned his motor/head.

[ReasonablySober]

Speights was my #1 at eight though I never expected the Bucks to give him any real consideration. When Bayless fell I DID think that he was a legit option. Both have looked great this summer and I'm not happy about it.

[Debit One]

Speights was my #1 at eight though I never expected the Bucks to give him any real consideration. When Bayless fell I DID think that he was a legit option. Both have looked great this summer and I'm not happy about it.

Let's be honest, you've never seemed happy about anything, at least you haven't expressed that on this board.

[Ruben Quevedo]

I know David Thorpe has mentioned that Speights is a bit of headcase.....I have to believe there were/are serious questions about his attitude because you just don't see skilled/smooth big men like him fall that far in the draft.

[europa]

We didn't exactly do our homework on a lot of other players like Speights either which leaves me wondering when this RJ thing came up. Did it come up as a possibility on draft day or the day before or something?

Going by the info GAD has posted I think we can deduce there were talks for at least a short time before the trade finally happened. GAD had said the Bucks had made two different offers - first offering Villanueva instead of Yi and then offering Villanueva and a future protected first - that the Nets shot down. Then the Bucks came back with Yi and Simmons and the Nets agreed. Given that, I think we can assume the discussions were going on for at least a few days if not longer. I doubt all of that happened in one day. Trade talks that feature that much back and forth typically are ones that have gone for a little while at least.

[xTitan]

The great Speights was 4-14 today, damn should have gone in the top 4......anyone ever watch his lazy ass play at FLA.??.....Perhaps the Bucks could do business with the 76ers for Jason Smith, could be a solid defender, rebounder, and shot blocker.....with Dalembert, Brand, and the rookie of the year Speights, there might not be enough minutes.

[NeedsMoreCheese]

The great Speights was 4-14 today, damn should have gone in the top 4......anyone ever watch his lazy ass play at FLA.??.....Perhaps the Bucks could do business with the 76ers for Jason Smith, could be a solid defender, rebounder, and shot blocker.....with Dalembert, Brand, and the rookie of the year Speights, there might not be enough minutes.

Oh what a shock, you want some big white stiff instead.

[Nebula1]

Alando Tucker is killing. Good to see. I hope he gets a chance to play this year.

[paulpressey25]

I see Bayless had another monster night and got the line 16 times again, making 13.

The guy has now shot 55 free throws in 3 games.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

I see Bayless had another monster night and got the line 16 times again, making 13.

The guy has now shot 55 free throws in 3 games.

PP, earlier you credited me with being on the Bayless bandwagon with you, but for the record I was not. If anybody had asked me to predict his summer league performance I definitely would have had him racking up points, but that doesn't change my view of him as a pro - I think he will rack up plenty of points per game, and will therefore rank high in the ROY race - but I don't think he will be above average in assists, rebounds, turnovers, or defense. Those types of players just suck up your resources, since scorers are always well-paid, and don't give you a ton of wins. I had Alexander, Lopez and Speights all above him.

[paulpressey25]

Actually I credited you with being on Lopez Island......did not bring you into the Bayless scandal.

I agree Bayless seems like your typical under-sized chucker.....I don't like those guys either. But sometimes those guys are special (Allen Iverson) if they can get to the line. Bayless is doing a "Sessions" here in summer league. Putting up FTA numbers that are so ludacrisp you can't entirely write them off as being "Summer League"

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Iverson is one of a kind, but he still falls into my category of draining more financial resources than his win contribution merits. Giving a max contract to somebody who misses that many shots and turns the ball over that many times (in spite of all the other positive things he does) makes it really hard to spend elsewhere on guys who will make up for his shortcomings.

In general I think you have to be selective about obtaining high ppg guys, because they are expensive to keep and not usually worth it. High rpg guys, high assist/turnover guys, high defense guys who don't even make it to the box score - those guys are all relatively cheap to retain, so if you start assembling a roster of them, you can field a very good team without breaking the bank. I think that was the secret of the Pistons and their lack of max contracts.

Imagine if Bogut's averages were 30 ppg (46%), 6 rpg, 1 apg, .8 bpg. Would that player be any better than what real Bogut is? Of course not. But I bet somehow this theoretical player would get a larger contract than real Bogut, and hamper the ability to put more talent around him. In a way we're fortunate that Bogut's primary talents are not scoring (though that would be appreciated too now that we've signed him).

[paulpressey25]

I think your theoretical Bogut counterpart at center might be Amare Stoudamire. No defense but he scores and scores.

Your point on financial resources is accurate, but that was the beauty with the Bayless pick. We'd have him cheap for four years on the rookie contract. He would have been a perfect "win now" cheap replacement for Mo.

I'm hoping that JA becomes a "Battier" though because that too could help us "win now". I just don't feel as confident on that one.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

I guess I'm in the minority about comparing Bayless to Mo in the short term. Some here think Bayless will better scorer than Mo right away. I think that's insane. I think Mo will be significantly more efficient for at least Bayless's first two years, maybe longer. So if you view that swap as an upgrade, I can see viewing it as a money saving win now approach, but to me it's a downgrade to something that didn't work very well in the first place.

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Darius Washington, nice.

Love the pickup. We should keep him and get rid of some other guys. I like Darius as a basketball player more then any guard we have now.

Great pickup. He is raw but is fearless, plays with an edge and motor and is very gifted athletically.
There are questions on his emotions and maturity level and whether he can get others involved over his own stats, but he has potential.

He is another cat who should have stayed at Memphis at a big time school and learn how to get that street out of his game and all the unneccessary hood style hoopla you see and learn to play a more controlled, structured and organized game as well.

A lot of guys come out too early. The same guys he is battling with in AAU and high school are still floating around the league still trying to find themselves. He had all the ability to make it big without all this uncertain and jumping from team to team.

You learn who you are in school for at least 3 years playing in the NCAA tounrnament and going to class. If you dont want to go to class, then expect to sit and learn in the Pro's which is what Mr Jennnings is finding out now...in Europe.

But Darius Washington I wish shows enough for them to bring him into camp so I can get to see him.
He plays to win. He has quickness, hops, acceleration, lift, and can be a quality shooter and a guy who can defend like a Chris Duhon did in Chicago with a lot more talent.

One of those kids who has heart, passion, and who hates to lose as an individual. But he needs to take a team on his back like he can and learn to do things and make the right descisions with his teamates and hate for his team to lose...when the ball is in his hands.

Quality pickup. Very nice indeed. If he was with the Spurs for a time he now has been taught some by the best. So I am encouraged he can catch on to what Scott Skiles is doing.

Some of these kids are going to good and tough coaches in the NBA (Popovich, Skiles, Assist Lionel Hollins, etc)to help them slow down the game to be able to systematically 'think' and 'see' the game' not just eat, drink, and sleep it...

Which is nice...

Many have the game in their hearts and in their mouths talking a good game and how tight it is, but few have in in their heart and head to back what they say up!

It is nice to be cocky and have a swagger and play with a chip. Scott Skiles himself had air about him when he was dropping bombs and dimes at MSU and in Orlando. But you have to work the game out mentally as well I believe to be able to walk the talk...

We'll see...I wish Washington well and am pulling for the kid to make it. Rose vs Washington is not out of the question down the road. He has that kind of ability. Just need to get with the right team in the right situation and right coach and right instruction right system and right time...

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

I think your theoretical Bogut counterpart at center might be Amare Stoudamire. No defense but he scores and scores.

Your point on financial resources is accurate, but that was the beauty with the Bayless pick. We'd have him cheap for four years on the rookie contract. He would have been a perfect "win now" cheap replacement for Mo.

I'm hoping that JA becomes a "Battier" though because that too could help us "win now". I just don't feel as confident on that one.

You are insane! Bogut is nowhere near Amare Stoudemire!!! Amare is a top 5 player in the League.

This is ridiculous if this is what you are implying. No way shape or form is he better then Amare just because he had some decent games against him the 1 or two times they meet each year in my humble estimation.

Please don't get this twisted...at PF Amare has no peer. None in the entire league I would take over him. Not even Dwight Howard or Chris Bosh or Kevin Garnett even if I were building a team right now.
And no, not even Boozer, Brand or Nowitki either.

He does everything I need a PF to do for my team. When he played Bogut he was out of position at Center. He is not a Center. He is only 6'9 and Bogut is almost 7'1 and can use both hands and does not play the Suns often.

Bogut usually has good games against Duncan or Amare who do not see him often in a season and who probaly are not scouted well on him being in a different conference.

But then Bogut will get his butt beat by Brendan Haywood and Ben Wallace and other scrubs in our conference who play him regularly.

Don't put Bogut and Amare in the same sentence ever again! LOL...that is just wrong. Very wrong. He is good I will give you that.

And I am excited for him at only 23 what he can be because he seems like he likes it here and is willing to work now that he is being paid...

But lets not go overboard here.

[Simulack]

LOL, I just turned on a SL game to see an old, even fatter Tractor Traylor in action for the Cavaliers.