Woelfel: 4 teams talking to Sessions (also Greece)

[Nebula1]

Let's get him back. He's our mojo and if, down the line, Jennings has a negative blow up, then we'll have lost both prospects at point guard. We can't lose what is soon to be our most valuable asset.

Sessions is not, nor close to, our best asset at this point. I know you love him, but he certainly doesn't hold more value than Bogut.

I actually meant the combo of Sessions/Jennings. It will likely be our strongest position on the floor, with the addition of having the best value in contracts and at least one very tradable piece.

That aside, I think there's plently good chance that Ramon can/will become this team's best player.

[MajorDad]

east side - i don't think hammond is doing what every smart gm should be doing and waiting out Sessions. i think what he is really doing is copying other dumb GM's moves that he thinks are smart gm moves. waiting out the market and hoping the market dictates Sessions' price is a very dumb GM move and it basically says hammond doesn't want to do anything. he'll just let the market do his work for him. how much effort does it take to let the maket do your work for you?

if you want the guy, make an effort and make an offer. Don't let this thing just hang there. what happens if sessions receives no other offers? Does hammond wait until the all star break before he signs sessions? Does Sessions become the second coming of Spreewwell amd marbury and mason ? a player without a team?

the best thing for the bucks long term and short term is to get sessions playing with jennings. the sooner the better. the worst thing for the bucks would be to re-sign Sessions on the very last day , or not re-sign him at all while watching all of the other FA's sign elsewhere.

ah yes , i can see it now. hammond actually wants the worst case scenario rather than the best case, because the worst case scenario helps the Bucks lose even more games. and while hammond does absolutely nothing with sessions, all of the other free agent point guards will have signed elsewhere - again the worst possible scenario for the bucks, but in actuality, that will help the bucks lose even more games which is the curent plan.

hammond is a genius. he is deliberately planning on what would be the worst possible scenario and his actions follow his plan. How could i not have seen this?

question for the crowd ? do you buy the cheapest ketchup and cola in the store , or do you buy heintz and coke or pepsie? Do you wait for gas prices to drop before you buy your gas, and when they do , do you fill up your tank even if it's more than half full because the price is right? Do you buy your toys for your kids before Christmas? or when they go on sale after christmas ? and what do your kids say when they see that barren tree? and you tell your kids Santa saved $25 this year by buying stuff that he knew that you really didn't want, but because it was on clearance. Do you buy your christmas wrapping paper and artificial tree before christmas or when they go on clearance? and when you wait unti l they go on clearance and the y are no longer available, do you buy the next best one? or do you put it off until next year? Do you go to yard sales at 6 am like some people do just so you can save $5? Do you take your date to a restaraunt and use a 2 for 1 coupon? Do you even use coupons? Do you go on the free weekend trip to condo resorts knowing full well you have no intention of buying a time share at that resort? Do you pay for one movie and then watch 5? Do you hack into your cable system, or use somebody else's password to watch the bucks play summer league games on the internet on a hacked site ? how cheap can you go?

hammond is coming off as a real cheap GM who is copying the exact same move other real cheap gm's make. End result - he gets his man and saves 2 dollars. how much does hammond really expect to save by playing this waiting game ? At least we don't have to worry about signing Sessions to a long term deal. he probably doesn't want one now. he 'll take a 1 year offer and leave as soon as possible as an unrestricted free agent. Why did hammond even make the offer to appease the fans and media's desires?

[paulpressey25]

[Tricking Ramon into signing a Bell-esque contract was never going to happen, Hammond wasting time on hoping it does is counterproductive.

I somewhat agree with you here. I think I would have put out a 3-year offer at $3.8/$4.2/$4.6mm at 12:01am on July 1st so the guy at least feels like he's got a baseline to work from and a team that wants him. I think there is a massive difference on a 3/$12 initial offer to Ramon than overpaying Gadz, Redd, Mo, Bell, etc.

Then again, most likely both sides have already traded those numbers verbally. Maybe Ramon's camp was insulted and wants more, so Hammond is letting him test the market. I can't fault Hammond since we don't exactly know what is going on. But yes, I'd be frustrated if Hammond's idea of a deal is a $2, $2.5, $3.0 type thing or telling him to go get an offer.

[RamonSessions]

Ramon has the chance to become discernibly the best player on the team, but I think him and Andrew will continue to develop at about an equal value on this roster, contributing in different ways.

But why else would I register myself under this name, Ramon was special from the start, some saw it, others questioned it, some still reasonably question his defense, BJ is looking like a good pick-up there.

[Sneaky_Pete]

rae the real ramone'

[carmelbrownqueen]

Ramon is a very good young talent, and I definitely question his defense, but I want him to be re-signed. I just don't want to overpay for him. I think an MLE deal is a little high..

[LUKE23]

I guess I don't see how MLE is high for a player of Sessions talent, especially when you consider position. I'd much rather pay the MLE for Sessions than Childress, that I know.

[aboveAverage]

I don't see how MLE is overpaying either. MLE is an average NBA salary. Sessions will be better than an average player starting next year already. It will be nice if we can get him for cheaper, but MLE is perfectly fair for Sessions. If Hammond doesn't match that, he's lost his mind.

[craig]

I guess I don't see how MLE is high for a player of Sessions talent, especially when you consider position. I'd much rather pay the MLE for Sessions than Childress, that I know.

I agree with that. But I don't think either of them are really at places in their careers, or on the Bucks roster, where it's necessarily wise to sign either of them that much.

Nor is it obvious that the market should dictate that Ramon should get that much. I think market could well come in sub-MLE for him.

[pnanda]

Look around the NBA, most of the RFA's are in a similar boat. Lee, M. Williams, Robinson, Felton, Childress, Kleiza, Big baby, Warrick, etc.

Teams are letting the market dictate the prices instead of bidding against themselves. As Bucks fans, you should be happy, the bucks are finally doing this.

I believe only Millsap and Jack have signed offer sheets.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Look around the NBA, most of the RFA's are in a similar boat. Lee, M. Williams, Robinson, Felton, Childress, Kleiza, Big baby, Warrick, etc.

Teams are letting the market dictate the prices instead of bidding against themselves. As Bucks fans, you should be happy, the bucks are finally doing this.

I believe only Millsap and Jack have signed offer sheets.

We are finally following status quo for RFA's and we will see how it works out.

But I predict we wind up with a deal that everyone is happy with (as fans/managment), maybe not as big as Chubby and Ramon want though.

[MajorDad]

my opinion is if you want the guy and think he'll be a great addition to your team, you go out and sign him and you offer him more than market value as a gesture of your good will.

if you don't want him, let him walk and tell him upfront you're going a different direction so he can try to latch on elsewhere.

that's what they do in football and baseball. I can't see any positives of placing a player in limbo and telling him to go out and get his best deal and then saying we might match it or we might not.

i can't see any positive objectives created by waiting out sessions and letting the market dictate his pay. if the bucks want to make or save $2 million next year , there are easier and more beneficial ways of doing it. Winning games is an old and tried method of generating more revenue. Selling off minority stock shares is another way. or make up fake stock shares like the packers did and sell them. or teach billie bass several new tunes and have some telemarketer sell him as part of the shammwoo towell - which doesn't really work- my stupid wife bought one. i bought two billie bass fish and gave them away to my friends as gifts. what says i love you more than giving Billie bass to your wife on your anniversary? if the bucks want to make /save money, buy some GM stock and then sell it before they totally disband. or have a weekly carwash and bake sale. it works wonders for our local high school.

[EastSideBucksFan]

my opinion is if you want the guy and think he'll be a great addition to your team, you go out and sign him and you offer him more than market value as a gesture of your good will.
if you don't want him, let him walk and tell him upfront you're going a different direction so he can try to latch on elsewhere.

that's what they do in football and baseball. I can't see any positives of placing a player in limbo and telling him to go out and get his best deal and then saying we might match it or we might not.

i can't see any positive objectives created by waiting out sessions and letting the market dictate his pay. if the bucks want to make or save $2 million next year , there are easier and more beneficial ways of doing it.

Major Dad - You don't offer guys huge deals "out of goodwill". It's the GM's job to pay his players as little or close to fair as possible. It's the agents job to get the biggest deal he can for his player.

Don't you understand that is why we are in this mess?

We overpaid one way or another: Michael Redd, Mo Williams, Dan Gadzuric, Bobby Simmons, Desmond Mason (twice) all because we really "liked" these guys. Mo and Bobby turned into cancers, Gadzuric might as well have cancer for how much he's contributed to this team, Desmond forgot how to play basketball and Michael Redd forgot how to dunk and do layups.


Hammond is doing this the right way, you will all see in the end. I have confidence in him with regards to this situation. I'm sure we have offered a deal, but it wasn't good enough for Chubby. So Hammond said, go find a better deal and we'll talk again.

Thats what is happening right now.

[madfx]

my opinion is if you want the guy and think he'll be a great addition to your team, you go out and sign him and you offer him more than market value as a gesture of your good will.

if you don't want him, let him walk and tell him upfront you're going a different direction so he can try to latch on elsewhere.

that's what they do in football and baseball. I can't see any positives of placing a player in limbo and telling him to go out and get his best deal and then saying we might match it or we might not.

i can't see any positive objectives created by waiting out sessions and letting the market dictate his pay. if the bucks want to make or save $2 million next year , there are easier and more beneficial ways of doing it. Winning games is an old and tried method of generating more revenue. Selling off minority stock shares is another way. or make up fake stock shares like the packers did and sell them. or teach billie bass several new tunes and have some telemarketer sell him as part of the shammwoo towell - which doesn't really work- my stupid wife bought one. i bought two billie bass fish and gave them away to my friends as gifts. what says i love you more than giving Billie bass to your wife on your anniversary? if the bucks want to make /save money, buy some GM stock and then sell it before they totally disband. or have a weekly carwash and bake sale. it works wonders for our local high school.

Thank God you're not running the Bucks, or any other organization or business.

This is a profession, they've shown him all the respect needed when they drafted him, signed him to a contract, and put him on the national stage to perform. If the competition doesn't want to pony up a large contract to lure him away, why should the Bucks? Sure, let's complain that we have overpaid players on this club that have handcuffed our ability to do anything. Then you complain that we should just give a few extra million out to our players as a gesture of good will.

Some people don't make much sense.

[pnanda]

Why should the Bucks offer Sessions 4-5 mill/yr if no one else is willing to do that?

Why overpay when you don't have to. This roster is full of players who are overpaid, why add to that?

Let the market dictate is worth.

[MajorDad]

eastside - yes the bucks are following the status quo.

I've never known following the status quo to be a good thing.

just ask robert frost which path he took into and out of the woods and what type of difference that made.. what would have happened to robert frost if he chose the path everyone else chose? there would be a lot less posters being made with that famous phrase. Robert Frost would have remained a good but obscure and broke poet.

and what about moses ? What would have happened if he had just taken the basic trade routes back to isreal? They would have gotten there in two weeks instead of 40 years .

and what about thomas payne? What if all he wanted was death and not liberty as an alternative? give me death just doesn't sound as gritty as give me liberty or give me death. the impact just isn't there.

or what if carl lewis never tried to sing the national anthem? he's more famous for that one attempt than he is for his Olympic medals.

maybe to make money the bucks could do a double header with the ringling bros circus. or have a paul mcCartney tour date and attach one of the Bucks' games as part of the concert. or play the harlem globetrotters. or hire energee girls according to their looks rather than ability to dance. and then sell energee calenders rather than bucks calenders.

what kohl really needs is not an intelligent GM, what he needs is Bill veck's son to agree to be his marketing manager.

if a tree fell on your house during a thunderstorm , creating $200, 000 worth of structural damage what color of hair would the alpaca in your next door neighbor's basement have ?

I am so outside the box, i don't even see a box.

[EastSideBucksFan]

eastside - yes the bucks are following the status quo.

I've never known following the status quo to be a good thing.

just ask robert frost which path he took into and out of the woods and what type of difference that made.. what would have happened to robert frost if he chose the path everyone else chose? there would be a lot less posters being made with that famous phrase. Robert Frost would have remained a good but obscure and broke poet.

and what about moses ? What would have happened if he had just taken the basic trade routes back to isreal? They would have gotten there in two weeks instead of 40 years .

and what about thomas payne? What if all he wanted was death and not liberty as an alternative? give me death just doesn't sound as gritty as give me liberty or give me death. the impact just isn't there.

or what if carl lewis never tried to sing the national anthem? he's more famous for that one attempt than he is for his Olympic medals.

maybe to make money the bucks could do a double header with the ringling bros circus. or have a paul mcCartney tour date and attach one of the Bucks' games as part of the concert. or play the harlem globetrotters. or hire energee girls according to their looks rather than ability to dance. and then sell energee calenders rather than bucks calenders.

what kohl really needs is not an intelligent GM, what he needs is Bill veck's son to agree to be his marketing manager.

if a tree fell on your house during a thunderstorm , creating $200, 000 worth of structural damage what color of hair would the alpaca in your next door neighbor's basement have ?

I am so outside the box, i don't even see a box.

You are too funny MajorDad.

This really made me laugh.


So who is John Hammond supposed to be: Moses, Robert Frost, Thomas Payne or Carl Lewis?

[stevescheffler06]

Hopefully a hybrid of Moses and Carl Lewis.

Lead us to the promised land as fast as humanly possible.

[smooth 'lil balla]

Hopefully a hybrid of Moses and Carl Lewis.

Lead us to the promised land as fast as humanly possible.

Now that was good.

[MajorDad]

east side - I disagree.

we are in the mess we are in because the past GMs have made some really stupid draft day decisions, and some really stupid trades. not because we overpaid a free agent more than market value.

I never thought gadz was worth retianing much less would have offered him a contract. i wouldn't have offered bell a contract either. let them walk.

i wouldn't have given the mavs two first round draft picks just so they could draft Dirk and we could draft traylor. brad miller went totally undrafted , and still owned traylor in college play every time they met.

i would never have wasted two firs t round picks to move up and draft Respert. i also wouldn't have wasted two firs t round picks to draft przzy a guy who quit on his college team in midseason just so he could prepare himself for the NBA draft. wha t other college player quit their college team in february before the dance - just to improve their own physical self? it's too bad bucks posters have really bad memories about what transpired 5-10 years ago.

i wouldn't have drafted Yi, haislip, or potsie either.

and i wouldn't have traded Allen for payton.
i wouldn't have signed Simmons. i thought he was bogus to begin with. I wouldn't have touched jefferson with a ten foot pole. no other NBA gm wanted him, so why should the Bucks > just so we can trade him in less than a year for more garbage?

if the Bucks had followed just 1/3rd of my proposals they'd be a perenial play-off team and well under the cap. the starters would be well paid and the bench would all be on one year deals. if a player performs, his next deal is increased. if he doesn't, he's cut. I would never draft projects in the first round and would make total use of the developmental leagues. .

we would have tanked 2-3 consecutive years from day 1- not the all star break - five years ago and ended up with three top 2 picks - one of them being lebron and the other being Dwight howard. Lebron, howard and ray allen and paul pierce would have been a nice core.

forget about not being able to draft dirk. if the bucks hadn't made that trade, they could have had paul Pierce with their pick. they could have landed the PF they coveted via free agency or trade rather than drafting traylor.

just because hammond is doing what every other gm is doing, doesn't mean he's making the right decision. before today, milwaukee was viewed by the vast majority of free agents as the last team they'd want to play for. has hammond done anything to improve that perception? Did harris? did grunfeld ? Ask lil Sammy what he thinks of Milwaukee or big dog or allen.

rather than calling me a quack for my wld ideas, maybe you should look at my history of crazy posts and realize , reed's posts seemed really stupid 5-10 years ago, but if we had only followed his really stupid advice, we'd be a dynasty right now.

offering gadz the 6 year deal wasn't the stupid decision. thinking he could play and giving him any deal was the stupid decision.

making your players happy and giving them more than market value produces results. if you want a business example take a look at McDonalds verses hardies. Who would you rather work for? how many out of business hardies do you see? if you're a university and you have a great professor who just developed a great new popcorn, do you pay him more than market value to stay at your university and continue his research, or do you tell him, sorry, i' m going to allow the market to determine your value. Orville Reddinbacker was once a great Purdue professor. The University could have kept him, but they allowed the market to determine his salary. As a professor, the university would have received the copyrights to his popcorn. unfortunately, for the university, he left.

eastside , all you are talking about is wanting hammond to save 2-3 million by ripping off sessions and giving him the lowest possible contract. Sure you save some money. but you also lose a lot of respect and reputation among other agents and players. Sometimes, it's a smart thing to give out more than the market. Sometimes that might end up resulting in attracting other players represented by the same agent who might even be better.

is it a smart thing to allow the market to determine Fielder's contract? or would it be smarter to keep fielder and his agent happy by paying him a little more than market value ? perhaps Fielder's agent represents some other clients. if fielder's agent is happy, he might recomend the brewers as a possible team for somebody else - liek maybe a starting pitcher he represents ? maybe he could get that pitcher to waive his no trade clause. all because the brewers paid over market to fielder.

but no, all you want hammond to do is the status quo and be like every other gm, and try to get sessions for nothing. and save $2-3 million this year. i say if Sessions is worth keeping, he's worth $4 million . end it - sign it get it done. if he's not worth keeping, tell him so and end the relationaship. Playing the waiting game has never worked other tha n saving a team a few bucks. and if thats' all you want a Gm to accomplish is saving a few bucks, then just field a team of 12 players.

i thought the position of a Gm is to try and win games , not save a few bucks. and yes, I don't like the way green bay's Thompson operates either by continuing to save money. the only reason the packers are better than the bucks is because thompson has made smarter draft day decisions.

and these ideas are not arch chair qb ideas because of things that didn't pan out. i've said these exact same ideas before the bucks made their poor decisions. this isn't the first time i've said how stupid their draft day decisions have been.

hammond is following the status quo of other Gm's? what's their track record? hes' not following the path the mavs or Spurs or lakers are taking. is he followig the path dumar's is taking ? Copying somebody else's success never is a great idea. being inventive and different is what produces success.