What the hell is going on with the Wings at home?

Manocad · Post #1 » by **Manocad** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:06 pm

This probably won't get many responses but this is the right location for the thread and something I'm truly concerned about...

Exactly WTF is going on with the Wings when they play at home anymore? They put up their worst performances and have been losing more than they win. It's been their outstanding play on the road recently that has kept them at/near the top of the standings. Don't know what it is but they need to get it straightened out.

Post #2 » by **ajaX82** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm

Its gotta be the injuries partly. But that should be why we are struggling in general, not just at home. It is definitely a mystery

Manocad · Post #3 » by **Manocad** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:16 pm

A month later and this hasn't changed. 4-7 in their last 11 at home and still stellar on the road. In fact, they have a better record on the road now than they do at home.

TSE · Post #4 » by **TSE** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:20 pm

It could also be random statistical variance and happenstance. Give me 5 years of data where we lose more often at home than on the road and then there might be something to investigate there, but on just a partial single season, there is not necessarily anything to it other than the luck of the odds happening to play out in this particular fashion. I see nothing unusual or suspicious going on in that regard.

My grandmother makes a similar complaint, every single game that the Red Wings lose, she acts completely shocked and can't understand why they didn't play well and do their jobs, it's the most bizarre and unexplainable thing to her why the players would give up on those days and not complete their jobs, and she goes through it every single time we lose a game. She's convinced that every win is a normal game with normal play but in the losses we always skate slower. Why didn't they skate fast like last time? When they skate fast they win!

Rodya · Post #5 » by **Rodya** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:32 am

The only explanation I can think of that the team becomes complacent at home. I think the playoffs will cure that, it's just a shame that it's risking our chances of home ice throughout the playoffs.

Post #6 » by **ajaX82** » Wed Mar 9, 2011 9:59 pm

I can kind of buy the complacency thing. It sucks, though on the other hand being a really good road team isn't a bad thing.

We get a good and desperate LA team tonight at home, lets hope we can change our fortunes

TSE · Post #7 » by **TSE** » Wed Mar 9, 2011 10:12 pm

4 of the 5 other division leaders are all within 2 pts of us, finishing strong has a really high chance of affecting the home ice advantage in a future playoff series. Stay strong Wings! Well I mean Jimmy Howard, cause he's the guy that's going to make or break us as he is the most suspect player and position on the team as of right now. Our fate rests with how he finishes up.

By the way is there any chance that Nabokov could free up before the playoffs? I haven't been paying attention to that whole story lately and nobody in the world covers hockey on the Internet so it's hard to find out info lol.

Manocad · Post #8 » by **Manocad** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:56 am

TSE wrote:It could also be random statistical variance and happenstance. Give me 5 years of data where we lose more often at home than on the road and then there might be something to investigate there, but on just a partial single season, there is not necessarily anything to it other than the luck of the odds happening to play out in this particular fashion. I see nothing unusual or suspicious going on in that regard.

The Wings just lost another at home, first one back after a trip out west and three days off. They are now 4-8 in their last 12 at home so it's not "happenstance" at this point; it's clearly in their heads.

TSE · Post #9 » by **TSE** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:26 am

I disagree. 12 games isn't enough of a sample to make absolute and certain determinations about anything in sports.

Manocad · Post #10 » by **Manocad** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:30 pm

Disagree all you want. Babcock has already addressed this publicly and many media outlets have already written about it. When a team has a 66% winning percentage overall and is 33% at home for 12 games over a span of more than two months, there's a problem. You do know what the Wings' (and any top NHL team) typical home record is, right? They were 13-3 prior to this 4-8 stretch and they've won 77% of their home games since 2000. Now, you can claim you know more than their coach about whether or not this is a problem but I'm pretty certain you won't get any fans to agree with you.

TSE · Post #11 » by **TSE** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:25 pm

Yes I'm aware of their home record, and no I made no such claim that I know more than the coach about whether this is a problem, and also I never said it was not a problem! I actually AGREE that it IS a problem!

I just disagreed in my last post about YOUR conclusion that it is for certain "in their heads", and that "happenstance" can't possibly be part of the reason, as I see plenty of other explanations and rationale which sufficiently and plausibly explain this bad record at home, and "happenstance" is still an eligible explanation that cannot be ruled out, in addition to a plethora of theoretical explanations that could be the real reason. There could be a number of them that all contribute in some way to lesser amounts.

If the Universe could speak and answer for the real truth, well it may very well say that the "in their heads" explanation is the biggest reason, or it may not, but even if that explanation was 99% of the crux of it, and some other phenomenon or construct or dynamic, or a combination of them account for the other 1%, then I'm right in my argument and you are wrong. I just have to avoid a perfect 100% that it is totally a mental thing. You are arguing against me on something that you have somewhere in the neighborhood of a googleplex to one of being correct on.

There are several explanations that could be contributors or major contributors to this problem that no man on Earth can totally appreciate as they are so complex and obscure for even the smartest person on the planet to truly appreciate and understand. Maybe the altitude in Detroit is greater than or less than the average city such that we are at an extra disadvantage by the way that the atomic atmospheric makeup interacts with dark matter and dark energy to ultimately add greater weight to molecules that combine to form the color red, of which the Red Wings wear more of at home than the average opponent, and that hurts us by some infinitesimally small amount by making us slower at home and that could have been just enough by a gazillionth of a centimeter on just one particular shot to put us over the breakeven point to be the difference in one particular goal, and that has to be factored in too. As does potentially billions of other variables that exist and are very real as the Universe truly knows and of which we humans will never be able to understand.

As far as getting fans to agree with me on this issue, well for one, I could care less if anybody agrees with me, that's my honest and unbiased position, and it is backed up by sound logic and rational thinking. You can find all the dissenters you want, but that doesn't change the fact that my logic and reasoning is valid, you can't dispute that as I have not violated that sense in any way shape or form, even if you could find 6 billion people to say that I'm wrong, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Besides, you don't even know what I think is the crux of the reason, for all you know I think the "in their heads" explanation is the most likely explanation of all. I just suggested one other possible theory that could be a part of it too, but I never said that it had to be that or that was my personal choice, just that it's one very possible explanation that "happenstance" could actually be the biggest contributor to this result, and it could be, or it could not be, I don't know for sure, and my contention is that you don't know for sure either. That's why I chose my words carefully and said that happenstance "could be" involved.

Post #12 » by **ajaX82** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:18 am

Datsyuk breaks the streak!

Manocad · Post #13 » by **Manocad** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:18 pm

TSE wrote:Yes I'm aware of their home record, and no I made no such claim that I know more than the coach about whether this is a problem, and also I never said it was not a problem! I actually AGREE that it IS a problem!

I just disagreed in my last post about YOUR conclusion that it is for certain "in their heads", and that "happenstance" can't possibly be part of the reason, as I see plenty of other explanations and rationale which sufficiently and plausibly explain this bad record at home, and "happenstance" is still an eligible explanation that cannot be ruled out, in addition to a plethora of theoretical explanations that could be the real reason. There could be a number of them that all contribute in some way to lesser amounts.

If the Universe could speak and answer for the real truth, well it may very well say that the "in their heads" explanation is the biggest reason, or it may not, but even if that explanation was 99% of the crux of it, and some other phenomenon or construct or dynamic, or a combination of them account for the other 1%, then I'm right in my argument and you are wrong. I just have to avoid a perfect 100% that it is totally a mental thing. You are arguing against me on something that you have somewhere in the neighborhood of a googleplex to one of being correct on.

There are several explanations that could be contributors or major contributors to this problem that no man on Earth can totally appreciate as they are so complex and obscure for even the smartest person on the planet to truly appreciate and understand. Maybe the altitude in Detroit is greater than or less than the average city such that we are at an extra disadvantage by the way that the atomic atmospheric makeup interacts with dark matter and dark energy to ultimately add greater weight to molecules that combine to form the color red, of which the Red Wings wear more of at home than the average opponent, and that hurts us by some infinitesimally small amount by making us slower at home and that could have been just enough by a gazillionth of a centimeter on just one particular shot to put us over the breakeven point to be the difference in one particular goal, and that has to be factored in too. As does potentially billions of other variables that exist and are very real as the Universe truly knows and of which we humans will never be able to understand.

As far as getting fans to agree with me on this issue, well for one, I could care less if anybody agrees with me, that's my honest and unbiased position, and it is backed up by sound logic and rational thinking. You can find all the dissenters you want, but that doesn't change the fact that my logic and reasoning is valid, you can't dispute that as I have not violated that sense in any way shape or form, even if you could find 6 billion people to say that I'm wrong, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Besides, you don't even know what I think is the crux of the reason, for all you know I think the "in their heads" explanation is the most likely explanation of all. I just suggested one other possible theory that could be a part of it too, but I never said that it had to be that or that was my personal choice, just that it's one very possible explanation that "happenstance" could actually be the biggest contributor to this result, and it could be, or it could not be, I don't know for sure, and my contention is that you don't know for sure either. That's why I chose my words carefully and said that happenstance "could be" involved.

tl:dr

TSE · Post #14 » by **TSE** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:48 pm

Ok. Well feel free to tell us how you think this last game fits into and applies to your previous theory. Is there some kind of principle at play such that this feeling "in their heads" lasts precisely for the specific amount of games that it lasted before Datsyuk happened to end the streak? Like the number Pi just happens to be an unusual number of a small amount over the number 3, why was it 3 and not six-point-something, or nine? I wonder if this psychological phenomenon has a similar exact and specific numeric code that governs how it manifests itself in hockey results. Please elaborate if you have any more to offer on the subject.

Manocad · Post #15 » by **Manocad** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:44 am

Call coach Babcock for further explanation. Like I already wrote, he said it was problem that the team needed to address so he'll be able to tell you what they did to address it.

TSE · Post #16 » by **TSE** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:01 pm

He already chimed in with his comments and I didn't have any follow up questions for him based on what he said. I only had further interest on learning more about your perspective cause of the position you had which was different than what he said. Besides, I don't know what Babcock's number is nor do I have any reason to suspect that I could conveniently get a hold of him. If he had to talk with me regarding hockey, then I would rather talk with him regarding other subjects and questions that I would have for him.

Rodya · Post #17 » by **Rodya** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:38 pm

I'm having a hard time understanding where the disagreement lies. Is there actually disagreement as to whether the Red Wings have been having trouble at home this season, as compared with seasons past? Seriously?

TSE · Post #18 » by **TSE** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:45 pm

Not from me. I've made my sentiments more than clear, and I agree that they have had trouble at home. Anyhow, I know you don't care to reply to me, but I was curious if you ever saw that movie I recommended to you in the other forum a long time ago cause you never followed up on that and I was curious what you thought about it; Gentlemen Broncos?

Manocad · Post #19 » by **Manocad** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:23 am

Listened to Mickey Redmond this morning. He said it had been obvious, for whatever reason, that the Wings "weren't in the games mentally at home, making mistakes they don't usually make and giving the opposing teams too many chances."

Rodya · Post #20 » by **Rodya** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:45 pm

^ I really don't see any argument to suggest otherwise. It's pretty damn obvious the Wings have been sub par at home this season. It's not only the matter of wins & losses at home, but the fact that they've been absolutely bitch slapped in a lot of their losses. However, they seem to have turned it around in the last week or so, the effort is definitely there.