NEEDS

[NBA74]

this team should not RESIGN hossa, and use that money on a goalie, and a defensemen....
(both of whom will eventually replace lidstrom/ozzie)

then we could look at a veteren forward like Federov to fill in for hossa....

[Rodya]

^ Fedorov? I'm Russian for god sakes and even I know he's been finished for a long time. Osgood will be the starting goalie next season and Howard will be begin to slowly brought into the fold, so no reason to blow a ton of capspace on a goalie that will maybe see 20-30 games. The red wings should try to resign Hossa and try to pull Niedermayer away from the Ducks and bring Schieder back for one more year. As for goalie insurance, bring a Raycroft or the bulin' wall,

[TNBT]

I agree RUSSIAN LIGHTNING, we don't really need to spend on defensemen or a goalie. In fact, I don't think we really need to spend a whole lot of money on anything. On the forward line, we've lost Hossa, Hudler, Samuelsson and Kopecky. That's a decent amount of talent to lose all at once, but we have a crop of really good young prospects coming through who have done their time in Grand Rapids and are ready to step in and produce. We have Helm, who is basically a bigger and quicker Kris Draper. Abdelkader has great overall skills. Leino has nice offensive skills and puck control. These three, and other prospects (if needed) are ready. Their time is now. You could expect a drop-off next season with a bunch of young guys coming in next season, but I don't think it will happen. They are ready to go. We have given them a handful of NHL games over the last season or two, so they have had a taste of the speed and intensity of NHL hockey.

On the defensive end, we have lost Chris Chelios. He WAS a great player, but I think he has been done for a year or so. One could make the argument that we need to sign another veteran to fill the gap, but just like on the forward line, the answer resides in our depth. We still have Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lebda, Meech and Lilja. That's 7 defensemen to fill 6 spots. On top of that, however, we have two great prospects in Ericsson and Kindl that are ready to go, as well as a nice talent in Brendan Smith who is probably a year or so away.

In goal, Osgood is still quite a good goalie. We have lost his backup from last season (Conklin) but once again, there is no need to panic and start signing veterans. It has been clear for some time now that Jimmy Howard is the future goalie of the Red Wings. I believe, and I know others do too, that this kid has the talent to become a franchise player. He has had a taste of the big time over the last season or two, and he is ready to come in as a backup now and will be ready to replace Osgood by the time Osgood starts to decline.

[ajaX82]

an enforcer. Give me Chris Neil

[Rodya]

The team needs to add more toughness on the defense end. We have plenty of toughness on offense, but very little on the defensive end. We have a solid first line in Lidstrom and Raflaski, but it is aging and lacks physicality. After those two our defensive talent drops significantly. Who do we have? Knronwall and ??? Stuart? Ericsson? Ledba?

The Red Wings have to go out a get another defensemen, preferably one that doesn't shy away from contact. I say we go after the 28 year old Marc-Andre Bergeron out of Minny and the experienced 38 year old Zubov.

[ajaX82]

The team needs to add more toughness on the defense end. We have plenty of toughness on offense, but very little on the defensive end. We have a solid first line in Lidstrom and Raflaski, but it is aging and lacks physicality. After those two our defensive talent drops significantly. Who do we have? Knronwall and ??? Stuart? Ericsson? Ledba?

The Red Wings have to go out a get another defensemen, preferably one that doesn't shy away from contact. I say we go after the 28 year old Marc-Andre Bergeron out of Minny and the experienced 38 year old Zubov.

Ericsson and Kronwall are the perfect tough defenseman, i dont know what you are talking about. Both are big and hit and like to get physical. Stuart is big and tough too and loves to mix it up. Hell even Lilja does a bit.

Sorry, but i have to say you are 100% off base here. Who are our tough forwards??

[Rodya]

They may be tough, but they are so far off from out first lines level of talent that they barely see the ice. I worded my previous post poorly, we need to get a defensemen that has significant talent to match up with Kronwall and preferably has some toughness. As of now, I don't think Stuart, Ericsson, or Ledba are second line material on a Stanley Cup caliber team. Getting another legit defensemen would spill Lidtrom and Raflaski of considerable minutes and turn the second unit from a gamble to a near guaranteed stop.

Of course every team in the league could use such a defensemen, but I think the Wings need one if they wish to reach the finals again.

Tough forwards/centers: Franzen, Cleary, Holstrom, Abdelkader, and of course there's Draper and Maltby on occasions.

My humble opinion of course.

[ajaX82]

They may be tough, but they are so far off from out first lines level of talent that they barely see the ice. I worded my previous post poorly, we need to get a defensemen that has significant talent to match up with Kronwall and preferably has some toughness. As of now, I don't think Stuart, Ericsson, or Ledba are second line material on a Stanley Cup caliber team. Getting another legit defensemen would spill Lidtrom and Raflaski of considerable minutes and turn the second unit from a gamble to a near guaranteed stop.

Of course every team in the league could use such a defensemen, but I think the Wings need one if they wish to reach the finals again.

Tough forwards/centers: Franzen, Cleary, Holstrom, Abdelkader, and of course there's Draper and Maltby on occasions.

My humble opinion of course.

I guess again we just have very different views of our players. I think Kronwall is an excellant d-man and will take over for Lidstrom. Kindl and Brendan Smith will be in the wings waiting as well. Ericcson with a year of PT is a second liner, and i think Stuart and Kronwall are as well. With the kids i mentioned, i think our D core is sooooo strong.

Cleary and Homer and Franzen are tough in a way, but not physical enough for me. Justin is what i like, he mixes it up and will drop em. But the other three will take hits and give them, but they arent sticking up for teammates or throwing down.

I want someone like Carcillo. or Neil. A guy who will fight and stick up for his guys in a second. A pest who wont back down. Someone who at the end of a game will not let other teams take runs at Datsyuk.

[Rodya]

^ Don't get me wrong, as I previously posted I love Kronwall's talent and toughness, but I don't think any of our other defensemen "deserve" to be on the second line with him. All of the defensemen outside of the big three (Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Raflaski), but not excluding, are capable of mixing it up. However, I see them simply as competent enforcers worthy of 3rd line minutes and injury reserve. Pairing any of them with Kronwall just seems to lessen the potential the second line has to be shut down level.

Investing in another playoff experienced defensemen with some puck handling ability will really help further strengthen our defense and lessen the affect of our personnel losses on the other side of the puck.

[TNBT]

I don't understand all the calls for us to add an enforcer. We've been a pretty damn good team for a decade and made the last two Stanley Cup Finals series without one. We have a team of guys who can take and give hits and play tough, and that is all that I care about. I'd rather have someone out there who can skate and move the puck than a big goon skating around trying to pick a fight. With the new rules in the NHL, the need for an enforcer who will drop the gloves has been severly reduced.

As for the defensive core, I agree with ajaX82. Sorry RUSSIAN LIGHTNING, you usually make good points in your posts, but I think you're way off base here. Lidstrom and Rafalski are both stars, as is Kronwall. We also have Stuart who is a very very good NHL defenseman to pair with Kronwall, and we have a pool of Ericsson, Lebda, Meech, Lilja and Kindl to pick our last defensive pair. That pool of players features some guys who are pretty solid at the moment, as well as some great young talent who will develop and be ready to take over from Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall when the time comes.

[ajaX82]

I don't understand all the calls for us to add an enforcer. We've been a pretty damn good team for a decade and made the last two Stanley Cup Finals series without one. We have a team of guys who can take and give hits and play tough, and that is all that I care about. I'd rather have someone out there who can skate and move the puck than a big goon skating around trying to pick a fight. With the new rules in the NHL, the need for an enforcer who will drop the gloves has been severly reduced.

As for the defensive core, I agree with ajaX82. Sorry RUSSIAN LIGHTNING, you usually make good points in your posts, but I think you're way off base here. Lidstrom and Rafalski are both stars, as is Kronwall. We also have Stuart who is a very very good NHL defenseman to pair with Kronwall, and we have a pool of Ericsson, Lebda, Meech, Lilja and Kindl to pick our last defensive pair. That pool of players features some guys who are pretty solid at the moment, as well as some great young talent who will develop and be ready to take over from Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall when the time comes.

i appreciate the d theory backing

as to the enforcer, to each his own. I understand why we dont use one and why many think its a good idea we dont.

Here are my points

1. fighting is still a big part of the NHL (i believe FM's were way up last year).

2. Other teams with stars employ major "goons" (Godard and previously Laraque for Crosby, Brashear did for Ovie, Boogaard for Gaborik, Bolton for Kovy, etc etc).

3. We have players who should not be fighting that now have to because of our lack of an enforcer. And you know what? they get their ass kicked and injured (Kopecky and Lilja both had seasons ended in fights. neither should ever fight).

4. I have watched sooooo many games were we are embarassing the other team and they start taking runs at our guys. We slash back and push and shove, go back out and get smashed again. Im sick of Homer getting croshchecked. Im sick of Datsyuk getting whitewashed by a glove. Im sick of Franzen getting pushed around by 3 guys after a play in the crease. There is no one to fear on this team and our guys get taken advantage of



Whats the difference between a 4th line wing in terms of production and an enforcer. I mean really. Not too mention that many fighters today have become much better players. Its not a bunch of Kocurs out there. Neil can play. Boll can play. Even Laraque is decent. They dont have to score a bunch but they go out and hit and play hard and intimidate.

I want one. We need one

[TNBT]

I don't understand all the calls for us to add an enforcer. We've been a pretty damn good team for a decade and made the last two Stanley Cup Finals series without one. We have a team of guys who can take and give hits and play tough, and that is all that I care about. I'd rather have someone out there who can skate and move the puck than a big goon skating around trying to pick a fight. With the new rules in the NHL, the need for an enforcer who will drop the gloves has been severly reduced.

As for the defensive core, I agree with ajaX82. Sorry RUSSIAN LIGHTNING, you usually make good points in your posts, but I think you're way off base here. Lidstrom and Rafalski are both stars, as is Kronwall. We also have Stuart who is a very very good NHL defenseman to pair with Kronwall, and we have a pool of Ericsson, Lebda, Meech, Lilja and Kindl to pick our last defensive pair. That pool of players features some guys who are pretty solid at the moment, as well as some great young talent who will develop and be ready to take over from Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall when the time comes.

i appreciate the d theory backing

as to the enforcer, to each his own. I understand why we dont use one and why many think its a good idea we dont.

Here are my points

1. fighting is still a big part of the NHL (i believe FM's were way up last year).

2. Other teams with stars employ major "goons" (Godard and previously Laraque for Crosby, Brashear did for Ovie, Boogaard for Gaborik, Bolton for Kovy, etc etc).

3. We have players who should not be fighting that now have to because of our lack of an enforcer. And you know what? they get their ass kicked and injured (Kopecky and Lilja both had seasons ended in fights. neither should ever fight).

4. I have watched sooooo many games were we are embarassing the other team and they start taking runs at our guys. We slash back and push and shove, go back out and get smashed again. Im sick of Homer getting croshchecked. Im sick of Datsyuk getting whitewashed by a glove. Im sick of Franzen getting pushed around by 3 guys after a play in the crease. There is no one to fear on this team and our guys get taken advantage of



Whats the difference between a 4th line wing in terms of production and an enforcer. I mean really. Not too mention that many fighters today have become much better players. Its not a bunch of Kocurs out there. Neil can play. Boll can play. Even Laraque is decent. They dont have to score a bunch but they go out and hit and play hard and intimidate.

I want one. We need one

I understand the points you are making. A case can be made for both sides of the argument. I just feel like we're having a lot of success with the team we have and playing the style that we have been, so I don't see a need to change it. If we were losing games and out of the Playoffs then I would be all for getting a goon to "defend" our stars. However, we haven't had one recently and we haven't needed to.

It may sound like I'm against the idea of getting a big tough guy, but I'm actually quite neutral on the subject. There are reasons to want one, and reasons not to. Personally, I value skill and production over size and fighting ability, so if we can get a big guy who can still play then I'm all for it, but if we're playing a goon with no talent over a guy who could do something for us, then I'm against it.

[ajaX82]

Apparently we needed some Todd Bertuzzi in our lives......yuck

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf ... .html#more

[Rodya]

I wanted to add a defensemen, simply because at the beginning of the off-season I thought there were great players that could've been had relatively cheap. In addition, you guys are understandably higher on the reserve defensemen than I am. With Lidstrom being 39 and Stuart 35, with both logging heavy minutes, I simply would've liked money being spent on another game changing defensemen. Dennis Seidenberg Each to his own, I'll stop beating this already mutilated horse.



Regarding Bertuzzi...obviously our coach has got an affinity for big tough players, alas Bertuzzi. But I can't stand him. At least it's just a one year deal.

Regarding adding an enforcer, I don't think ajaX was referring necessarily to someone that's known for taking his gloves off, but rather someone that's known for open ice checks and intensity.

Edit: Nope, ajaX wants to break someones nose.

[ajaX82]

Regarding adding an enforcer, I don't think ajaX was referring necessarily to someone that's known for taking his gloves off, but rather someone that's known for open ice checks and intensity.

no no, i actually meant someone who would drop em at a moments notice. I want a fighter. seriously. Your view is probably more correct. Im just being stubborn

[TNBT]

Each to his own, I'll stop beating this already mutilated horse.

[TSE]

I understand the points you are making. A case can be made for both sides of the argument. I just feel like we're having a lot of success with the team we have and playing the style that we have been, so I don't see a need to change it. If we were losing games and out of the Playoffs then I would be all for getting a goon to "defend" our stars. However, we haven't had one recently and we haven't needed to.

It may sound like I'm against the idea of getting a big tough guy, but I'm actually quite neutral on the subject. There are reasons to want one, and reasons not to. Personally, I value skill and production over size and fighting ability, so if we can get a big guy who can still play then I'm all for it, but if we're playing a goon with no talent over a guy who could do something for us, then I'm against it.

Kind of a strange condition to be prefacing, I don't know who would want to advocate to have a lousy player on this team just because he's a goon, I think the people calling for a goon, are calling for a good goon, not a worthless goon. They want a guy who is a good hockey player within that particular category of styles. The roster is big enough to hold just one of these guys. And yes we haven't had one of these guys for a while and hadn't needed to, but you have to understand that the Red Wings are an anomalous team in that we have been blessed with a plethora of talent and depth that the majority of teams haven't been as fortunate as our team has been. That doesn't mean a good goon can't help us, just that we're so strong we can do anything and make any moves and still have a well above average team, thus clouding the issue on whether or not a good goon can help us or not.

[Rodya]

^ Goon overload.

[Mr Swagtastic]

I think this team needs a goaltender for the future I would see who wants out and try to make a push for them

[ajaX82]

I think this team needs a goaltender for the future I would see who wants out and try to make a push for them

jimmy Howard has been pretty solid from what i have seen. Not too mention McCollum and Larssen in the minors are both young and talented. Im not sure making a move for a Goalie is a great idea