Johnson or Cousins? Vote!

[Worm Guts]

The only way Cousins flops is if he just doesn't care or he's too stubborn to take coaching. He's too talented not be good otherwise.

[shrink]

I was surprised when I looked at the consensus Mock Draft.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/18/cons ... index.html

At #4, six have us taking Cousins, and six have us taking Wes Johnson. Now, this may be because of fit, and I think that many mocks focus too much on "win now" when I think that MIN's biggest need isn't a position, but a shot at a star. Still, I have to admit I've believed there is a huge drop off between #4 and #5, and maybe - for us - that its far closer.

[Darko Miliminutes]

Keep in mind folks that Cousins faced shrimps all year. The couple times that he went against a decent front-court, he was mediocre at best.

He had bad games against Morehead St. (11/13), UNC (12/5), Tennessee (2/13), Georgia (3/3), Florida (3/7), Alabama (3/12), and East Tennessee St. (3/18)

The only one of those teams that has a good front court is UNC.

So is that a good thing or a bad thing, I might be worried that he struggled going up against a weak front-court. Anyway I just hope DeMarcus doesn't end up being the NBA version of JaMarcus.

Often times things get overlooked when pre-draft hype rolls into town. So many people spend so much time projecting best case scenarios, and ignore what usually happens to potential bigs. They either, flat out don't work, or turn into longer term projects. I believe he has upside, but he's a long ways to go and a lot of things to change. Lots of them can't handle that change/development.

[Esohny]

I'm sure everyone here is well aware of that. We do have Darko on the team, after all.

[Krapinsky]

The Wages of WIns guys make a case for Cousins as the best player in the draft.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/ ... e-wizards/

[Esohny]

The Wages of WIns guys make a case for Cousins as the best player in the draft.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/ ... e-wizards/

Meh. He supports his claim with the example of Derrick Rose scoring relatively low on his measure and then not playing well in the NBA...

[AQuintus]

The Wages of WIns guys make a case for Cousins as the best player in the draft.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/ ... e-wizards/

This brings all the same problems that Hollinger's made up statistics bring. You can't judge players solely based on box score stats while ignoring intangibles, upside, athleticism, and defense. The whole thing is especially pointless when you realize that anyone could take those players season stats per 36 (or 40 or 48 or whatever) and come to the exact same conclusions that Berri's calculations lead to.

Edit:

I feel kind of dumb saying that now because he says pretty much the same things in his article. The D Rose example pretty much says it all, though.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think the worst case scenario for Cousins is that he sucks....in 5 years. But he shouldn't be able to eat and lazify himself of the league before then, ample time to get on court production and trade value for him.

[C.lupus]

I'm leary of any stat named 'Position Adjusted Win Score per 40 minutes'. So it's some kind of abstract stat that they had adjust by position and again by minutes played, I guess? Why not do a log transformation and then do an ordination on it while you're at it?

I'm going to make up my own stat and start a blog. Tranformed height-adjusted positional performance stat (THAPPS). Wall has a THAPPS score of log18, Turner's THAPPS is log16.7893356, and Cousins is log15.789224858605. See how good it is?

[horaceworthy]

Having money changes people. When Cousins is a millionaire, will he still have a passion for the game and keeping his body in shape? Maybe he gets lazy because he's thinking about his new kitchen with all that food in it.

Maybe he ends up hiring a personal chef and nutritionist because now he'll have to be in better shape in order to be mentioned as one of the best big men/players in the league/class that he's in. This could go both ways, I have no idea what approach Cousins will take to basketball once he gets paid.

My objection was to dunkonu21 applying such a blatant double standard to Cousins in comparison to Love and Jefferson, as well as his observations on Cousins while he was at Kentucky.

[Breakdown777]

I'm leary of any stat named 'Position Adjusted Win Score per 40 minutes'. So it's some kind of abstract stat that they had adjust by position and again by minutes played, I guess? Why not do a log transformation and then do an ordination on it while you're at it?

I'm going to make up my own stat and start a blog. Tranformed height-adjusted positional performance stat (THAPPS). Wall has a THAPPS score of log18, Turner's THAPPS is log16.7893356, and Cousins is log15.789224858605. See how good it is?

[Krapinsky]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/six ... z0rExwc1wp

This is the video of the Favors-Cousins workout from today. Towards the end of the video watch how hard Cousins' runs the court. Impressive.

I have the sense that we are really going to regret not taking Cousins. Allen, Roy, Curry, and now Cousins. The misery continues.

[Krapinsky]

I'm really, really starting to fret over Kahn taking Johnson @ #4.

Cousins is a dominant center. Those players only come around once every 5-10 years. He should be in the equation for the #1 pick with Wall. I'm serious. He can shoot. He can pass. He can handle the ball. He can run the length of the court. He rebounds. He could be a force defensively -- the rare big man to anchor your defense. He has that rare competitive mean streak.

Johnson is a 23 year old small forward in one of the deepest small forward drafts in years. Last year we took the first point guard available in a one of the deepest point guard drafts in a long time. It just so happens that players was from the same exact team/system. We run the risk of once again getting a player in the top that is not even in the top tier of his position. I feel confident Cousins is one of the top 2 centers in this draft. I do not feel confident that Johnson is one of the top 2 SFs.

At 16 and at 23 (or by virtue of combining them and trading up) there will still be quality SFs that have a chance to be very, very good players. The opportunity for a DOMINANT center may not come around again for another 10 years. In the entire T-Wolves history we have never had the opportunity to draft a player as unique as Cousins. The same cannot be said for Wes Johnson.

Cousins HAS to be the pick.

[wildvikeswolves]

I'm really, really starting to fret over Kahn taking Johnson @ #4.

Cousins is a dominant center. Those players only come around once every 5-10 years. He should be in the equation for the #1 pick with Wall. I'm serious. He can shoot. He can pass. He can handle the ball. He can run the length of the court. He rebounds. He could be a force defensively -- the rare big man to anchor your defense. He has that rare competitive mean streak.

Johnson is a 23 year old small forward in one of the deepest small forward drafts in years. Last year we took the first point guard available in a one of the deepest point guard drafts in a long time. It just so happens that players was from the same exact team/system. We run the risk of once again getting a player in the top that is not even in the top tier of his position. I feel confident Cousins is one of the top 2 centers in this draft. I do not feel confident that Johnson is one of the top 2 SFs.

At 16 and at 23 (or by virtue of combining them and trading up) there will still be quality SFs that have a chance to be very, very good players. The opportunity for a DOMINANT center may not come around again for another 10 years. In the entire T-Wolves history we have never had the opportunity to draft a player as unique as Cousins. The same cannot be said for Wes Johnson.

Cousins HAS to be the pick.

agreed 100%

[Vega06]

I'm really, really starting to fret over Kahn taking Johnson @ #4.

Cousins is a dominant center. Those players only come around once every 5-10 years. He should be in the equation for the #1 pick with Wall. I'm serious. He can shoot. He can pass. He can handle the ball. He can run the length of the court. He rebounds. He could be a force defensively -- the rare big man to anchor your defense. He has that rare competitive mean streak.

Johnson is a 23 year old small forward in one of the deepest small forward drafts in years. Last year we took the first point guard available in a one of the deepest point guard drafts in a long time. It just so happens that players was from the same exact team/system. We run the risk of once again getting a player in the top that is not even in the top tier of his position. I feel confident Cousins is one of the top 2 centers in this draft. I do not feel confident that Johnson is one of the top 2 SFs.

At 16 and at 23 (or by virtue of combining them and trading up) there will still be quality SFs that have a chance to be very, very good players. The opportunity for a DOMINANT center may not come around again for another 10 years. In the entire T-Wolves history we have never had the opportunity to draft a player as unique as Cousins. The same cannot be said for Wes Johnson.

Cousins HAS to be the pick.

That's essentially how I feel right now too. Well said. Weren't you okay with Johnson at 4, though? What changed your mind?

[Esohny]

I'm really, really starting to fret over Kahn taking Johnson @ #4.

Cousins is a dominant center. Those players only come around once every 5-10 years. He should be in the equation for the #1 pick with Wall. I'm serious. He can shoot. He can pass. He can handle the ball. He can run the length of the court. He rebounds. He could be a force defensively -- the rare big man to anchor your defense. He has that rare competitive mean streak.

Johnson is a 23 year old small forward in one of the deepest small forward drafts in years. Last year we took the first point guard available in a one of the deepest point guard drafts in a long time. It just so happens that players was from the same exact team/system. We run the risk of once again getting a player in the top that is not even in the top tier of his position. I feel confident Cousins is one of the top 2 centers in this draft. I do not feel confident that Johnson is one of the top 2 SFs.

At 16 and at 23 (or by virtue of combining them and trading up) there will still be quality SFs that have a chance to be very, very good players. The opportunity for a DOMINANT center may not come around again for another 10 years. In the entire T-Wolves history we have never had the opportunity to draft a player as unique as Cousins. The same cannot be said for Wes Johnson.

Cousins HAS to be the pick.

So you've come around?

[Slum_Dillinger]

Cuz, easily. I'm a firm believer of BPA until we have something to build around.

Exactly

[Krapinsky]

I'm really, really starting to fret over Kahn taking Johnson @ #4.

Cousins is a dominant center. Those players only come around once every 5-10 years. He should be in the equation for the #1 pick with Wall. I'm serious. He can shoot. He can pass. He can handle the ball. He can run the length of the court. He rebounds. He could be a force defensively -- the rare big man to anchor your defense. He has that rare competitive mean streak.

Johnson is a 23 year old small forward in one of the deepest small forward drafts in years. Last year we took the first point guard available in a one of the deepest point guard drafts in a long time. It just so happens that players was from the same exact team/system. We run the risk of once again getting a player in the top that is not even in the top tier of his position. I feel confident Cousins is one of the top 2 centers in this draft. I do not feel confident that Johnson is one of the top 2 SFs.

At 16 and at 23 (or by virtue of combining them and trading up) there will still be quality SFs that have a chance to be very, very good players. The opportunity for a DOMINANT center may not come around again for another 10 years. In the entire T-Wolves history we have never had the opportunity to draft a player as unique as Cousins. The same cannot be said for Wes Johnson.

Cousins HAS to be the pick.

So you've come around?

I was pumping Cousins immediately after we got #4. Worm was the first on the bandwagon. I am merely reiterating my stance, but now only more forceful then ever.

Edit: to add to that -- I was warming up to Johnson, but was never advocating taking him over Cousins. I was trying to defend Kahn's logic, as I usually try to do. However, after watching the Lakers-Celtics and being reminded once again how important big men are in the finals where these games become slugfests on defense and ISO match ups on offense, I just don't see how we can pass on Cousins for Johnson --- a player who played zone last year, may be subject to getting backed down by bigger SFs, and who is not an ISO player at all.

Right now I also like Cousins over Favors, which is a change of heart. Before I did not know how to separate them so I through in with the common sentiment that Favors has this limitless upside. However, I've now come to realize that Favors has that soft/passive personality that just doesn't really appeal to me in competitive athletes. A lot of people are blaming his point guard play, or the fact that he played with Lawall for the fact that he didn't stand out last year. However, judging from his demeanor he just seems like a kid that perhaps doesn't go after it. The fact that he was not in shape at his workout -- at a time where he has more to prove then he has ever in his life -- supports this logic.

[BrooklynBulls]

Krapinsky wrote exactly how I feel. I think Cousins is too good to not take. Bust factor? There isn't a Center out there not taken at #1 that didn't have a bust factor. And some did, even at #1. The reward surpasses the risk, Cousins is too good to pass up. He's a steal at 4.

[Krapinsky]

I'll further add this --

Many think, as do I, that Johnson would be such a great fit with Rubio on a running team that wants to play an open style. However, what I think is being overlooked is Cousins fit with Rubio in the pick and roll (he has a great pick and pop ability that was rarely featured at Kentucky) and as a target for dishes under and around the basket. Cousins has amazing hands for a big man and is a giant target which makes him able to catch a pass no matter where Rubio would be on the court.