Rubio Thread III

[ansoncarter]

if he's scoring over 20 a game it's a waste of his passing. Would probably mean he ended up going too drive/dish heavy which is a pretty one-dimensional way to make plays and only benefits one or two players. Only way he lives up to the hype is making all 4 guys better and elevating everyone and all that stuff

[TheFranchise21]

The PG doesn't necessarily have to guard the other PG.

[horaceworthy]

A good man defender in a sense that he can pest the hell out of his opponent. His uncanny hand-eye coordination for the ball will generate steals. His size and wingspan will cause problems for his man.

But I don't believe he will become a good man defender in a sense that he can use angles to his advantage, develop a natural defensive intensity/mindset, know when to pressure the ball handler at a particular time, and etc.

Something in a Rondo-variant defender (style-wise). Gambling/burned for steals at times but can cause a high amount of TOs at the end result though.

I think he already displays some of these traits, particularly the defensive intensity/mindset. The angles/when to pressure he has somewhat of an innate feel for, although both could certainly improve. I think the problem he'll run into is getting too aggressive going for the steal at times, and staying in front of the jets like Rose at times.

He's got good size for the position, tremendous instincts, quick hands and takes pride in playing that side of the ball. He's not a super athlete and could add some strength, but I don't think saying he won't develop the mindset for defense is a fair assessment.

[St.Nick]

My analysis on Rubio:

Pros
- Top notch passer
- Can get into the lane
- Great feel for the game
- Good speed
- Excellent ball handler
- Tremendous on the fast break
- Likes to get into the passing lanes on defense
- Excellent Leader already at 19 years old

Cons
- Gets beaten defensively by quicker PG's (Derek Rose/Curry took him to school several times)
- Makes the flashy pass when its not necessary, resulting in turnovers
- Not a good shooter (despite his hitting two jumpshots in the US game)...needs to be pretty wide open in order to take/make these shots

Overall, I think he'll be an excellent NBA player. Sort of Jason Kidd-like in his play making abilities (and reluctance to shoot), but still with a ways to go in some physical areas such as strength and quickness to get in front of the more shifty guards in the NBA.

I can see him being a 14/10apg/2-3spg guy. Not necessarily a franchise player, but someone that is just really good.

[KF10]

I think he already displays some of these traits, particularly the defensive intensity/mindset. The angles/when to pressure he has somewhat of an innate feel for, although both could certainly improve. I think the problem he'll run into is getting too aggressive going for the steal at times, and staying in front of the jets like Rose at times.

He's got good size for the position, tremendous instincts, quick hands and takes pride in playing that side of the ball. He's not a super athlete and could add some strength, but I don't think saying he won't develop the mindset for defense is a fair assessment.

That maybe the case.

It is too early to categorize a player like Rubio IMO. He may be awesome in defense or blah. I think once Rubio arrives to the NBA, people will have a good grasp of what he can achieve on the defensive end and everything in general.

Knowing Rubio, he has a good chance to do well given his skill level and talent level in the defensive end.

[Swimmer]

My analysis on Rubio:

Pros
- Top notch passer
- Can get into the lane
- Great feel for the game
- Good speed
- Excellent ball handler
- Tremendous on the fast break
- Likes to get into the passing lanes on defense
- Excellent Leader already at 19 years old

Cons
- Gets beaten defensively by quicker PG's (Derek Rose/Curry took him to school several times)
- Makes the flashy pass when its not necessary, resulting in turnovers
- Not a good shooter (despite his hitting two jumpshots in the US game)...needs to be pretty wide open in order to take/make these shots

Overall, I think he'll be an excellent NBA player. Sort of Jason Kidd-like in his play making abilities (and reluctance to shoot), but still with a ways to go in some physical areas such as strength and quickness to get in front of the more shifty guards in the NBA.

I can see him being a 14/10apg/2-3spg guy. Not necessarily a franchise player, but someone that is just really good.

I agree with your assessment, St. Nick. I think those Cons can be remedied somewhat when we get him over here, though. He is working on his shot and it's getting better. I thought he looked pretty comfortable taking jumpshots in the US game, and in general. I also think he will cut down on the unnecessary flashy plays against consistently stiffer competition with some good coaching. IMO, those flashy plays are a huge portion of what makes him a marketable commodity, though.

I'm even OK with him aggressively going for steals/pestering the offense, as long as we develop a help defense system to cover for him (I'm looking at you, KLove!)

[Awoooga]

One major concern that is unaddressed in the posts here. Rubio does alot of his damage offensively off picks. From watching the Spain game however, many of those picks would be called moving screens in the NBA. I would be curious as to how he can create on his own or with regular nba legal picks.

Also, when Rubio gets by his man alot of times he passes up potential layups to make a pass. I am all about pass first point guards but man take the easy two if it is there.

[Worm Guts]

They call moving screens in the NBA?.

[Klomp]

Also, when Rubio gets by his man alot of times he passes up potential layups to make a pass. I am all about pass first point guards but man take the easy two if it is there.

Kidd did that last Olympics too...

[Ball Does Lie]

Hey guys, I wanted to clear up a couple misconceptions about athleticism and its impact on Rubio. The first thing to realize is the training and workouts in Europe are much more stamina based than quickness based. For instance, while in America players do suicide drills to gain quickness, in Europe players run up and down bleachers or run hiking trails to develop stamina. The game is different overseas and the training is used to prepare players for the European game. That's why, when a guy like Darko Milicic goes to Europe it is actually a bad thing for his NBA career. He'll have developed stamina but sacrificed foot speed and it takes him weeks into the season to get into shape. Plus, Rubio will probably start lifting weights much more often and bulk up, which will make him a monster-sized Point God.

Secondly, while Rubio will never be a phenomenal athlete like Derrick Rose, he'll end up being a decent or even above-average one. Keep in mind athleticism isn't just jumping high or running fast, it also includes stamina, change-of-direction speed, dexterity, and a host of other traits. So if he becomes above average at changing directions and has great stamina plus modest jumping ability and good foot speed, would that not signify a "decent" athlete? Sounds a lot like Steve Nash on roids.

I disagree with the Jason Kidd comparison. While Kidd is probably better than Nash (all-time), something about his game feels more Nash-like than Kidd-like. Plus, he realizes that for his biggest strength (attacking the rim) to remain his bread and butter, he'll need to develop a jumpshot of some sort (I'm praying something more than a spot-up) to open up the attacking drives. He's got good length, so he'll have no trouble getting his shot off (as long as he JUMPS on his jumper!). Defensively, I doubt he'll be able to pick up the opposing team's best perimeter player the way Kidd was, because he'll never carry the bulk Kidd was able to without it severely effecting his athleticism. Kidd was putting down sick dunks as a college athlete who as a PG towered over other teams' SG's...Rubio, I think, can dunk, but he doesn't have elite athleticism (obviously) and gaining 30-40lbs would do more harm than good I feel...

Think of him as a 6'4" version of Steve Nash in his prime.

[dansone]

I think the best thing is Ricky has a lot of potencial.
You can compare with the way Pau Gasol was becoming much stronger year after year to face the best power-forwards, Rubio can work his body and improve it, but for example, Rose can not improve his basketball IQ, that is innate in Rubio.

[guille_4]

I think that is a fair assessment too.

I'm not too worried about his defense. I would take concern about his offense in general. The consensus projects Rubio as a fantastic passer and playmaker once he arrives to the NBA. But what about scoring? I don't think he will be the type of player that can get 20 points on a consistent basis at the NBA-level. I don't think Rubio will develop a mentality to score high digits. His initial intent is to get his teammates involved by making plays. I wouldn't be surprised if he tops out around 14-17 points a game.

At all, that is actually what I am expecting from him. I doubt he is going to be a franchise man, but I think he will deff be a top squire as is Pau Gasol from Kobe Bryant. I expect him to do something like 15 points/10-12 assists at his prime, but if well surrounded, to be a real leader and a potential All Star player.
In his first season, I hope he gets 25-28 minutes per game with 7-9 points/6-8 assists, unless he improves a heck his jumper shot. Regarding his mentality to score high digits, when he played with his age group, he used to have that kind of mentality, he actually scored 51 points in the u-16 FIBA European Championship. He will never be in that aspect like OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay or Tyreke Evans, but I believe he will gradually increase his scoring digits.

[Saltine]

Ronzone on Rubio;
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/Ru ... 08_23.html

Tony Ronzone: He did a phenomenal job. I was so proud of him. In one eye, we had to win for the USA, but in my other eye I was cheering for Ricky. Of course he's property of the Minnesota Timberwolves. But Ricky handled himself very well, we're very guard-dominated with our USA team, we have Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Rajon Rondo, Chauncey Billups are very athletic. Our whole situation here, getting ready to win this World Championship is that we got to pressure the guards internationally. We put a lot of pressure on Ricky, and it did not bother him at all. He handled it very well, he drove on us, took it to the basket. You kind of look at him and you think to yourself, if he would of been put on our team with USA, how many more assists and opportunities he would've had because the Spanish team is not as athletic as we are. They don't have Rudy Gay and Kevin Durant on the wings, they have good players, but they're more of an organized structure type of game to their system. So what Ricky did out there was phenomenal, I'm very happy for him. It's exciting times knowing that we have this kid under our name.

Jonah Ballow: Now looking at Ricky Rubio from an X's and O's standpoint, what do you see out of him as far as what his game will translate at that next level. What will Ricky Rubio do in the next couple of years in the NBA that you saw maybe of glimpse of in that contest against the USA team.

Tony Ronzone: One to handle pressure, the pressure is not going to bother him. He started when he was 17 years old in the Olympic game against us in 2008 in China. He has a skill as an NBA player to handle pressure, to create opportunities for scoring opportunities. That's his job to create opportunities for his team to be successful. His plus-minus in that game was at plus-22, which is pretty amazing. As soon as he got in the game, we were up, and he totally took over the game. That's the skill level he has. He got bigger, he got stronger in that last year or two, he shoots the ball well, he's got a great release. Probably the one thing he has to get better on is he just has to be more consistent knocking down that three-ball.

Jonah Ballow: As far as how he fits into an NBA game, that up-tempo style. He could probably thrive in a fast break type of offense that Minnesota would like to execute in the next couple of years.

Tony Ronzone: No question, he's got that skill and talent already. If you think about it, you put any kid in college or anybody right now to go against Derrick Rose, the No. 1 pick in the draft, Stephen Curry, and Rajon Rondo, who has won an NBA championship, you think about it, how many people can compete at that type of level. Ricky Rubio competed and played well, and never backed down, and defensively he was a warrior. He had four steals against us, that's pretty amazing.

[C.lupus]

Nice to see praise like that coming from Ronzone. Thanks.

[Vin20]

Hey guys!

I don't know if this will interest you but I was in Madrid during the Spain vs. USA and Ricky and Love talked for a while before the game. I don't know what they were talking about but they were smiling and at the end they "hugged" each other. Love said he'd say something to Rubio about Minnesota in the game so...

And, about his scoring... Let' see. In his first years at pro level he played in Joventut with Rudy so he didn't need to score a lot. Rudy was a star in Europe and he scored like 20ppg. In 2008, when Rudy left to the NBA and Ricky was "alone" in Joventut, he needed to take that responsability and scored like 10ppg. That's also what happened when he played with kids of his age: he was the only one who did something And he averaged 23ppg I think.

In the Spanish Team he doesn't need to score cause we've got: Calderon (not anymore), Rudy, Navarro, Llull, Garbajosa... Now he'll be the starting PG and maybe Coach Scariolo will tell him to score more, cause we don't have Calderon's scoring...

And in FCBarcelona he doesn't need to score either: Navarro, Lorbek, Mickeal, Basile, Morris, Lakovic...

When it's "Rubio's scoring day", he'll take advantage of that (for example, he did 5/5 on 3 against Caja Laboral and 17pts). But Rubio's job is passing, running the offense, creating shots for his teammates... And yes, I think sometimes he's too unselfish. (The other day, he was alone in front of the basket but instead of scoring, he passed the ball to Llull to shoot a 3 and he missed it).

[pumunga]

I think that is a fair assessment too.

I'm not too worried about his defense. I would take concern about his offense in general. The consensus projects Rubio as a fantastic passer and playmaker once he arrives to the NBA. But what about scoring? I don't think he will be the type of player that can get 20 points on a consistent basis at the NBA-level. I don't think Rubio will develop a mentality to score high digits. His initial intent is to get his teammates involved by making plays. I wouldn't be surprised if he tops out around 14-17 points a game.

nash,2 time mvp, has never averaged 20 for a season, if we wanna get serious hes never averaged over 19 over the course of a season, so id have to agree with 14-17 ppg

[C.lupus]

I don't think scoring 20 ppg is a prerequisite to being a franchise player, either.

[Krapinsky]

Arguably the greatest NBA player of all time, Bill Russell, never averaged 20 ppg in a season, so yeah I would say that isn't a qualifier.

[john2jer]

Franchise players lead their teams to victory. When the game is on the line, you want the ball in their hands. Now if that means they're scoring the game winning bucket, or setting someone else for an easy shot, I don't care. Bottomline, you want that guy to have the ball and trust him to make the right decision.

For us, Rubio is that guy. You want him on that court, you NEED him on that court.

[Winter Wonder]

For us, Rubio is that guy. You want him on that court, you NEED him on that court.

Easy there Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI8Pefg