Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[minimus]

I don't know what caused Garland to fall off so hard, but he was pretty decent the previous 2 seasons.
Are the injuries starting to limit his athleticism?
I know coming into the draft injuries were the big question with him.

The problem for Cleveland is Mitchell plays no defense either. I don't care how good your frontcourt is on that end, you can't win with two undersized poor defenders in the backcourt.

I have seen multiple reports saying that Garland is a solid defender when he gives effort. I also think that he will be just fine in defense playing within MIN defensive group in place of Conley. I think outside of PoA defense his major contribution in defense might be 50/50 balls, long rebounds, screens etc. I also truly believe that he is an ideal fit in offense: ballhandler, passer and elite shooter next to Edwards. His presence alone will make opponent think twice before double teaming Edwards.

[BlacJacMac]

I don't know what caused Garland to fall off so hard, but he was pretty decent the previous 2 seasons.
Are the injuries starting to limit his athleticism?
I know coming into the draft injuries were the big question with him.

The problem for Cleveland is Mitchell plays no defense either. I don't care how good your frontcourt is on that end, you can't win with two undersized poor defenders in the backcourt.

I have seen multiple reports saying that Garland is a solid defender when he gives effort. I also think that he will be just fine in defense playing within MIN defensive group in place of Conley. I think outside of PoA defense his major contribution in defense might be 50/50 balls, long rebounds, screens etc. I also truly believe that he is an ideal fit in offense: ballhandler, passer and elite shooter next to Edwards. His presence alone will make opponent think twice before double teaming Edwards.

He's tiny. He's short and skinny with short arms. Not a good defensive profile.

And he misses too many games every single year.

Not interested.

[life_saver]

I am getting more and more reluctant to trade KAT even if we lose this series..Jokic is not gonna go away quickly and if you wanna win West in near future, you are likely gonna go through Jokic. You need personnel to slow down Jokic. KAT despite his flaws, still does a good job defending Jokic. KAT also has improved this playoffs when it comes to his decision making, foul trouble. He is still gonna attract attention offensively and in games like yesterday where he made quick decisions, it just made the whole offense lot better. Like unless Wolves have a chance of getting a long term PG as part of trade which is an incredibly hard thing to find, it's probably better to keep KAT atleast for another year

[Note30]

You want to Sign and Trade a guy who has regressed so badly he's going to have a really hard time finding more than a vet minimum?

We can't afford to invest any money in backup PG and Tyus Jones isn't going to help us beat anyone.
In case you missed how Finch pretty much flatly refuses to play anyone he doesn't consider as being able to play plus plus defense in the playoffs.

With rumors Garland wants out if Mitchell extends, KAT to cleveland for Garland is intriguing.
Although they will have serious questions about his supermax with Mobley needing an extension.

Kenny Smith actually had a good point about how when Ant is playing wing and attacking from the wings, there are fewer eyes on him.
Conley is more of a corner PG. If we added a PG who was a legit threat from the top of the floor the way Garland is, it could help unlock Ant.

I do not want Garland on this team. A corner PG is more who we need. I rather have a legitimate other scoring wing to pair with Ant than a short PG.

Tyus is one of the few PGs on the market available. If we can draft a better player with the pick I'm game and have Alvarado (from the above trade) be the hound on defense that he is.

Tyus is way too expensive where we already have a roster full of players who are already too expensive.

Only possible path to Tyus is S/T for Naz and not only do I not want to pay Tyus at the MLE+, I don't like that trade.

Like I said, I don't need Tyus on this team. I rather draft a guard.

[younggunsmn]

Having a 2nd player that can demand a double team is a big deal, which is why it's hard to trade KAT.
They don't just give those guys away.

I just wish he played more often like in game 6, making quick decisions and using the doubles to open stuff up for his teammates.

So many many times he's trying to take the whole defense on with the force of his own will, especially when we get down.

If he were a max player and not a supermax it would be a whole lot easier to fit him into the long term picture as Ant gets better and better and more and more touches.

You can't have a 50+ million role player. You just can't.

[life_saver]

I do not want Garland on this team. A corner PG is more who we need. I rather have a legitimate other scoring wing to pair with Ant than a short PG.

Tyus is one of the few PGs on the market available. If we can draft a better player with the pick I'm game and have Alvarado (from the above trade) be the hound on defense that he is.

Tyus is way too expensive where we already have a roster full of players who are already too expensive.

Only possible path to Tyus is S/T for Naz and not only do I not want to pay Tyus at the MLE+, I don't like that trade.

Like I said, I don't need Tyus on this team. I rather draft a guard.

I just don't understand Tyus obsession...have people looked at his playoff shooting numbers ? Teams won't respect his shot and dude shot like crap in playoffs despite being left open. If you are looking for a long term PG option, it has to be someone who atleast is somewhat of a scoring threat beyond perimeter, someone whose shooting is respected by opponents.

[shrink]

Tyus is way too expensive where we already have a roster full of players who are already too expensive.

Only possible path to Tyus is S/T for Naz and not only do I not want to pay Tyus at the MLE+, I don't like that trade.

Like I said, I don't need Tyus on this team. I rather draft a guard.

I just don't understand Tyus obsession...have people looked at his playoff shooting numbers ? Teams won't respect his shot and dude shot like crap in playoffs despite being left open. If you are looking for a long term PG option, it has to be someone who atleast is somewhat of a scoring threat beyond perimeter, someone whose shooting is respected by opponents.

I hadn’t looked at his playoff number, and with MEM they were pretty bad. But he has greatly improved his shooting the last three years in the regular season, and his 3P% are 39%, 37.1%, and 41.4% last year. I like Tyus because of his attitude, the fact that he usually leads the league in assist/turnover percentage, and that he’s from here, so it might be easier to keep him.

However, Monte Morris is a similar player, and maybe we don’t need to worry so much about being a place no one wants to play. The biggest issue though is Tyus’ size, and if we want to be a team whose identity is defense, Tyus would get attacked constantly. Add in the cost, and I suspect he is no longer near the top of Tim Connelly’s acquisition list.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonesty01.html

[Note30]

Having a 2nd player that can demand a double team is a big deal, which is why it's hard to trade KAT.
They don't just give those guys away.

I just wish he played more often like in game 6, making quick decisions and using the doubles to open stuff up for his teammates.

So many many times he's trying to take the whole defense on with the force of his own will, especially when we get down.



If he were a max player and not a supermax it would be a whole lot easier to fit him into the long term picture as Ant gets better and better and more and more touches.

You can't have a 50+ million role player. You just can't.

What about a 42 million dollar one?

Fwiw, I don't disagree with a single thing you're saying here.

[Note30]

Tyus is way too expensive where we already have a roster full of players who are already too expensive.

Only possible path to Tyus is S/T for Naz and not only do I not want to pay Tyus at the MLE+, I don't like that trade.

Like I said, I don't need Tyus on this team. I rather draft a guard.

I just don't understand Tyus obsession...have people looked at his playoff shooting numbers ? Teams won't respect his shot and dude shot like crap in playoffs despite being left open. If you are looking for a long term PG option, it has to be someone who atleast is somewhat of a scoring threat beyond perimeter, someone whose shooting is respected by opponents.

Used to be on the team, is a Minnesota native, doesn't turn over the ball. I understand the obsession. It's not rational.

[life_saver]

Like I said, I don't need Tyus on this team. I rather draft a guard.

I just don't understand Tyus obsession...have people looked at his playoff shooting numbers ? Teams won't respect his shot and dude shot like crap in playoffs despite being left open. If you are looking for a long term PG option, it has to be someone who atleast is somewhat of a scoring threat beyond perimeter, someone whose shooting is respected by opponents.

Used to be on the team, is a Minnesota native, doesn't turn over the ball. I understand the obsession. It's not rational.

I do like Tyus but not as a starter but more of a backup PG. But with Wolves current cap situation, I just don't think it makes sense to spend $15M+ on a backup PG who is not a reliable 3 pt scoring threat

[Baseline81]

Folks are still brining up Jones as a potential target...

[winforlose]

Folks are still brining up Jones as a potential target...

Jones stopped being a target when we traded for Morris. Also Tyus came out and said he wants to stay in Washington in exchange for a promise that they will keep him as a starter for the length of his contract. Real GM had a wiretap article about it back around the day or two after the deadline. The key is keeping Monte around and getting him back to form.

[Note30]

I just don't understand Tyus obsession...have people looked at his playoff shooting numbers ? Teams won't respect his shot and dude shot like crap in playoffs despite being left open. If you are looking for a long term PG option, it has to be someone who atleast is somewhat of a scoring threat beyond perimeter, someone whose shooting is respected by opponents.

Used to be on the team, is a Minnesota native, doesn't turn over the ball. I understand the obsession. It's not rational.

I do like Tyus but not as a starter but more of a backup PG. But with Wolves current cap situation, I just don't think it makes sense to spend $15M+ on a backup PG who is not a reliable 3 pt scoring threat

I agree.

[BlacJacMac]

Like I said, I don't need Tyus on this team. I rather draft a guard.

I just don't understand Tyus obsession...have people looked at his playoff shooting numbers ? Teams won't respect his shot and dude shot like crap in playoffs despite being left open. If you are looking for a long term PG option, it has to be someone who atleast is somewhat of a scoring threat beyond perimeter, someone whose shooting is respected by opponents.

I hadn’t looked at his playoff number, and with MEM they were pretty bad. But he has greatly improved his shooting the last three years in the regular season, and his 3P% are 39%, 37.1%, and 41.4% last year. I like Tyus because of his attitude, the fact that he usually leads the league in assist/turnover percentage, and that he’s from here, so it might be easier to keep him.

However, Monte Morris is a similar player, and maybe we don’t need to worry so much about being a place no one wants to play. The biggest issue though is Tyus’ size, and if we want to be a team whose identity is defense, Tyus would get attacked constantly. Add in the cost, and I suspect he is no longer near the top of Tim Connelly’s acquisition list.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonesty01.html

I get hung up on this one a bit. In principle it sounds fantastic, but I'm not so sure in reality.

Great PGs turn the ball over. Rubio and Kidd were 3-1 guys. Jokic is 3-1 in his "best" years - and has often been lower.

When I see 6-1, 7-1 whatever, my first thought is "This guy plays it super safe. He doesn't push the issue. He's probably not playing with a lot of pace either". Guys like Tyus, Morris and even Haliburton live off of throwing the simplest, most basic passes. Its almost Flip Saunders ball - where the open guy takes the shot every time. They live off throwing the ball to the open man.

I prefer an aggressive PG that will break down a defense and get guys dunks, layups and mismatches - even if it leads to a few more turnovers.

I love Monte Morris and he was the guy I wanted at the deadline, but I've never seen him as the heir apparent to Conley. I think (when healthy) he's a fantastic bench guy. But not a starter on a contender.

[shrink]

That seemed interesting, so I looked it up

Tyus Jones

2023-24. 7.3 ATO (#1 in NBA). (MacLaughlin was #3 at 5.3!). 7.35 APG. (#9 in NBA)
2022-23. 5.4 ATO (#1 tie, Monte Morris!). 5.1 APG (#40)
2021-22. 6.4 ATO (#1). 4.45 APG (#44)
2020-21. 5.5 ATO (#1). 3.45 APG (#71)
2019-20. 5.2 ATO (#1). 4.38 APG (#49)
2018-19. 7.0 ATO (#1). 4.81 APG (#32)

I think you definitely have a point about only making safe passes, and we don’t know if last season is repeatable.

[BlacJacMac]

Yeah. As a defense, guys like Tyus and Morris don't scare me. They aren't going to put pressure on me. They don't need to be doubled and they aren't going to rack up fouls on the bigs behind me because I don't need to funnel them into them.

You don't actually have to gameplan to stop them. You're more concerned with not giving up good shots to the guys they pass to.

[cmoss84]

Bruce Brown and Scottie Barnes for KAT + ?

[winforlose]

Bruce Brown and Scottie Barnes for KAT + ?

That is very interesting. I doubt they give up Barnes, but I would be mighty tempted.

[BlacJacMac]

Bruce Brown and Scottie Barnes for KAT + ?

They’re not giving up Barnes for anything less than Ant.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Bruce Brown and Scottie Barnes for KAT + ?

They would never do it in a million years. But with the off chance they do, we take it and ruuuuuuun.


Barnes and Ant would dominate together on the court, and Barnes would rival Ants funny charm with his goofy almost autistic foolishness he exudes off the court.