Rubio Thread Siete

[White Wolf]

Some stats about Ricky:

- Wiggins has scored 101 field throws, 27 from Ricky's assists.
- KAT has scored 87 field throws, 24 from Ricky's assists.
- Ricky's matches has 3% less of % FT's when he's deffending them.
- When he is on the court, Minnesota recives 91,3 points per 100 possessions, when he is out 108,3 points (almost 20 points of difference)

Source: Marca Newspaper (Spanish): http://www.marca.com/2015/11/25/baloncesto/nba/noticias/1448433586.html#comentarios

[guest81]

Take away his career game against the Lakers and Rubio has hit just 15 of his last 51 shots. Several mathematicians are working around the clock to see just how bad of percentage that really is

Your trolling is tiresome and boring. Please stop.

THANK YOU

As for the comparably tiresome shooting discussion. Many of the guys were shooting poorly so far. Why pick on the one whose shooting is least relevant? How about KG's shooting, Kevin gdmn Martin's slump, Shabbazzzz, Gorgui and Bjelica's 3 pt drama? I watched rondo play the other day, he had loads of assists, granted he made a few points at the basket but his long range shooting was no better than ricky's. still the fans seemed to be able to apprechiate what they have in him instead of focussing on that one weakness he has. Maybe its a Minnesota thing to expect the worst? I believe that with the exception of one (Orlando) game, Ricky made the team better and successful. That is all that matters. As long as they keep winning when he's playing i dont give a damn about his shooting.

First of all, plenty of people have criticized those other people's shooting woes, not just Rubio.

2nd, this is a Rubio specific thread, so no duh people are only going to talk about all things Rubio in it and not other people's problems.

3rd, Rubio is not the only person to ever have his weaknesses pointed out. I believe every player who has ever played has had something about their weaknesses talked about. Don't know why you seem to think it's just Rubio.

Lastly, the point is, the Wolves haven't won with Rubio as their starting point guard. Their record is under .500 and they have never made the playoffs. Part of the reason why is because of his injuries. Another has to do with him being the worst shooting player of all time percentage wise. Those aren't minor issues. Has he made the team better? Yes. Better then 15 other starting point guards would have if they replaced Rubio? I don't think so. It certainly a debate and to think you don't think so is silly

[LesGrossman]

Your trolling is tiresome and boring. Please stop.

THANK YOU

As for the comparably tiresome shooting discussion. Many of the guys were shooting poorly so far. Why pick on the one whose shooting is least relevant? How about KG's shooting, Kevin gdmn Martin's slump, Shabbazzzz, Gorgui and Bjelica's 3 pt drama? I watched rondo play the other day, he had loads of assists, granted he made a few points at the basket but his long range shooting was no better than ricky's. still the fans seemed to be able to apprechiate what they have in him instead of focussing on that one weakness he has. Maybe its a Minnesota thing to expect the worst? I believe that with the exception of one (Orlando) game, Ricky made the team better and successful. That is all that matters. As long as they keep winning when he's playing i dont give a damn about his shooting.

First of all, plenty of people have criticized those other people's shooting woes, not just Rubio.

2nd, this is a Rubio specific thread, so no duh people are only going to talk about all things Rubio in it and not other people's problems.

3rd, Rubio is not the only person to ever have his weaknesses pointed out. I believe every player who has ever played has had something about their weaknesses talked about. Don't know why you seem to think it's just Rubio.

Lastly, the point is, the Wolves haven't won with Rubio as their starting point guard. Their record is under .500 and they have never made the playoffs. Part of the reason why is because of his injuries. Another has to do with him being the worst shooting player of all time percentage wise. Those aren't minor issues. Has he made the team better? Yes. Better then 15 other starting point guards would have if they replaced Rubio? I don't think so. It certainly a debate and to think you don't think so is silly

The shooting issues are simply blown up out of proportion. There is no evidence for your claim that the shooting has cost us a single game.

Ypur weakest argument is that they havent won with Rubio; that is obviously a silly point to make considering its a team game. Which point guard wolud have carried these rosters to the playoffs, in the few games rubio was able to stay healthy? I wont say the t word again but you should make up your mind wether you want to have a discussion or just want to piss off people.

The reason why this team wasnt able to make the playoffs were
-lack of talent
-injuries
-poor coaching
-repeated tank mode seasons

This season there is a realistic chance that the wolves make the playoffs; there is enough talent on board if things go well.

[guest81]

THANK YOU

As for the comparably tiresome shooting discussion. Many of the guys were shooting poorly so far. Why pick on the one whose shooting is least relevant? How about KG's shooting, Kevin gdmn Martin's slump, Shabbazzzz, Gorgui and Bjelica's 3 pt drama? I watched rondo play the other day, he had loads of assists, granted he made a few points at the basket but his long range shooting was no better than ricky's. still the fans seemed to be able to apprechiate what they have in him instead of focussing on that one weakness he has. Maybe its a Minnesota thing to expect the worst? I believe that with the exception of one (Orlando) game, Ricky made the team better and successful. That is all that matters. As long as they keep winning when he's playing i dont give a damn about his shooting.

First of all, plenty of people have criticized those other people's shooting woes, not just Rubio.

2nd, this is a Rubio specific thread, so no duh people are only going to talk about all things Rubio in it and not other people's problems.

3rd, Rubio is not the only person to ever have his weaknesses pointed out. I believe every player who has ever played has had something about their weaknesses talked about. Don't know why you seem to think it's just Rubio.

Lastly, the point is, the Wolves haven't won with Rubio as their starting point guard. Their record is under .500 and they have never made the playoffs. Part of the reason why is because of his injuries. Another has to do with him being the worst shooting player of all time percentage wise. Those aren't minor issues. Has he made the team better? Yes. Better then 15 other starting point guards would have if they replaced Rubio? I don't think so. It certainly a debate and to think you don't think so is silly

The shooting issues are simply blown up out of proportion. There is no evidence for your claim that the shooting has cost us a single game.

Ypur weakest argument is that they havent won with Rubio; that is obviously a silly point to make considering its a team game. Which point guard wolud have carried these rosters to the playoffs, in the few games rubio was able to stay healthy? I wont say the t word again but you should make up your mind wether you want to have a discussion or just want to piss off people.

The reason why this team wasnt able to make the playoffs were
-lack of talent
-injuries
-poor coaching
-repeated tank mode seasons

This season there is a realistic chance that the wolves make the playoffs; there is enough talent on board if things go well.

It's ironic that you say that it's a team game when it comes to Rubio winning games argument, yet it's the same one you used to explain why you thought Rubio was better then Kevin Love. Which point guards would of taken the Wolves to the playoffs if they had them instead of Rubio all this time? My opinion,

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Wall
Parker
Dragic
Lawson
Conley
Teauge
Irving

So I take it back. There's 11 point guards who I think would of done a better job then Rubio all this time.

Again, all those reasons are correct as to why they have the record that they do with Rubio. But you claim that Rubio isn't responsible for any of the losses, only the wins, which is ridiculous. There were plenty of games during Love's last season, if Rubio was an average shooter, they would of won more games. They had zero go to scoring in the 4th besides Love, who was pretty much triple teamed.

[moski44]

First of all, plenty of people have criticized those other people's shooting woes, not just Rubio.

2nd, this is a Rubio specific thread, so no duh people are only going to talk about all things Rubio in it and not other people's problems.

3rd, Rubio is not the only person to ever have his weaknesses pointed out. I believe every player who has ever played has had something about their weaknesses talked about. Don't know why you seem to think it's just Rubio.

Lastly, the point is, the Wolves haven't won with Rubio as their starting point guard. Their record is under .500 and they have never made the playoffs. Part of the reason why is because of his injuries. Another has to do with him being the worst shooting player of all time percentage wise. Those aren't minor issues. Has he made the team better? Yes. Better then 15 other starting point guards would have if they replaced Rubio? I don't think so. It certainly a debate and to think you don't think so is silly

The shooting issues are simply blown up out of proportion. There is no evidence for your claim that the shooting has cost us a single game.

Ypur weakest argument is that they havent won with Rubio; that is obviously a silly point to make considering its a team game. Which point guard wolud have carried these rosters to the playoffs, in the few games rubio was able to stay healthy? I wont say the t word again but you should make up your mind wether you want to have a discussion or just want to piss off people.

The reason why this team wasnt able to make the playoffs were
-lack of talent
-injuries
-poor coaching
-repeated tank mode seasons

This season there is a realistic chance that the wolves make the playoffs; there is enough talent on board if things go well.

It's ironic that you say that it's a team game when it comes to Rubio winning games argument, yet it's the same one you used to explain why you thought Rubio was better then Kevin Love. Which point guards would of taken the Wolves to the playoffs if they had them instead of Rubio all this time? My opinion,

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Wall
Parker
Dragic
Lawson
Conley
Teauge
Irving

So I take it back. There's 11 point guards who I think would of done a better job then Rubio all this time.

Again, all those reasons are correct as to why they have the record that they do with Rubio. But you claim that Rubio isn't responsible for any of the losses, only the wins, which is ridiculous. There were plenty of games during Love's last season, if Rubio was an average shooter, they would of won more games. They had zero go to scoring in the 4th besides Love, who was pretty much triple teamed.

you serious? you really think Dragic, Teague, Conley, Lawson and even Parker (the present Parker) would do a better job than Rubio in our team? You are really serious?

[Tensten]

Yeah you can easily cut that list to Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Lillard, Wall. 5 elite level PGs who can carry their team. No disrespect to Conley and Parker, but they are in very good stable teams. Others aren't huge improvements over Rubio.

[guest81]

The shooting issues are simply blown up out of proportion. There is no evidence for your claim that the shooting has cost us a single game.

Ypur weakest argument is that they havent won with Rubio; that is obviously a silly point to make considering its a team game. Which point guard wolud have carried these rosters to the playoffs, in the few games rubio was able to stay healthy? I wont say the t word again but you should make up your mind wether you want to have a discussion or just want to piss off people.

The reason why this team wasnt able to make the playoffs were
-lack of talent
-injuries
-poor coaching
-repeated tank mode seasons

This season there is a realistic chance that the wolves make the playoffs; there is enough talent on board if things go well.

It's ironic that you say that it's a team game when it comes to Rubio winning games argument, yet it's the same one you used to explain why you thought Rubio was better then Kevin Love. Which point guards would of taken the Wolves to the playoffs if they had them instead of Rubio all this time? My opinion,

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Wall
Parker
Dragic
Lawson
Conley
Teauge
Irving

So I take it back. There's 11 point guards who I think would of done a better job then Rubio all this time.

Again, all those reasons are correct as to why they have the record that they do with Rubio. But you claim that Rubio isn't responsible for any of the losses, only the wins, which is ridiculous. There were plenty of games during Love's last season, if Rubio was an average shooter, they would of won more games. They had zero go to scoring in the 4th besides Love, who was pretty much triple teamed.

you serious? you really think Dragic, Teague, Conley, Lawson and even Parker (the present Parker) would do a better job than Rubio in our team? You are really serious?

Over Rubio's tender here, not just this year, sorry if there was confusion. and absolutely yes they would

[LesGrossman]

OK i see you are just out to troll and provoke. Enjoy, i wont respond to ANY of your posts any more, not even those which seem to contain traces of sense.

[Nitroglycerin]

Rubio needs to rethink his shooting. Like he should think it like passing the ball to the basket

Hopefully his ankle is ok so he can work with Penberthy again during the California roadtrip

[Devilzsidewalk]

Rubio needs to rethink his shooting. Like he should think it like passing the ball to the basket

Hopefully his ankle is ok so he can work with Penberthy again during the California roadtrip

I've given up on him being a good shooter. There has been literally zero improvement from his rookie season.

I still like his net benefit and I still want him on the team, but it's seeming less and less likely that any positive progression in his shooting is going to take place.

[RocketsHero]

His shot looks good, he has no legs under him though (due to his hamstring and ankle)

[Nirv]

He is at 359 FG% right now, not his best season, but not his worse either. I expect it will raise a bit, because right now he is having some really bad nights after the injury. If healthy, he should be at 370 after allstar game. Let's pray.

[LesGrossman]

I also think its a physical thing. He usually starts with two or three short jumpers that look really good and often go in. Lets also not forget that he takes comparably few shots and many of those are forced late game clock attempts. Those are statistically neglectable with volume shooters but if you take only ten per game and two are "get inbound pass, two dribble half court heave" attempts then they will really impact your numbers. From the early game shots i can tell that he has actually made huge improvement in form. However the more exhausted he gets the more he compromises his form. Still work in progress. Other things come easy to him, shooting isnt one of them.

[Hisa]

Someone looking to pass first is always going to have problems with scoring, just watch Lavine when he is trying to structure the offense and ends up shooting himself it usually ends uo in bad misses. But Ricky has taken a step back, first because of the lingering injuries and for me because a lot of times he tries to get a foul rather than score while shooting. I always have to cringe at those possesions, because it looks really bad and i hate that Ricky is doing that. I have noticed that a lot of times this season he has started out well shooting the ball and then after he tries to jump into the defender and create a foul, he usually ends up missing almost all his shots. Sure it is also because of fatigue, but i wish he would stop this.

[Sugarless]

Forget about his shooting. If it comes, great. If not, he's still one of the most valuable PGs in the league for his defense, playmaking and intangibles "alone".

As for PGs who are bad at scoring and team success in the playoffs (which we haven't reached yet and won't be doing this year), it's another debate filled with vacuous arguments, usually from people who can't understand this is a TEAM sport. Both past and recent history show that not only it's possible to advance in the playoffs with inefficient, low-scoring PGs, it's actually quite feasible to win it all. Just ask Derek Fisher, Jason Williams, Jason Kidd or Rajon Rondo who have served as starting PGs in championship winning teams, and that's only in the last decade.

[Mattya]

All those players could make a basket in some way at better percentages than Rubio though. Kidd in Dallas/NJ, Williams in Miami, Fisher were all better 3 point shooters on more shots than Ricky. Rondo was better at finishing at the rim than Rubio as well. Even though he has a huge impact on both sides of the floor if he doesn't improve somewhere then it could be a problem come playoff time. We need to hope that Rubio makes a Jason Kidd like improvement after he left PHX.

[Sugarless]

Jason Williams was a starter in every game for the Miami Heat during their championship run with a subpar .522 TS% on 9 points per game and 3.3 FGM in 30 minutes, with his only positive being his FT shooting, as he shot 40% from the field and barely 27% beyond the 3 point line. His scoring was not a factor, and he was a complete liability on defense plus not the playmaker that he once was. He just happened to be Miami's best option to start at PG in a team that also featured a declining Gary Payton over 24 MPG with a TS% of .524 on less than 6 PPG and 2.1 FGM. And you know what's best? Miami even had those two "scoring threats" at their guards positions sharing the court for more than 5 minutes per game throughout the playoffs!

- Yeah man, but that's only a one-time thing, far from the norm.

- Oh, but we haven't finished...

Jason Kidd won a championship ring posting 9 points and 3FGM in over 35MPG for the playoffs. He also made it to the finals twice with the Nets posting Rubioesque TS%'s as low as .492, but on nearly 18 attempts per game, which is by all means detrimental to any team and the best example of a terrible scorer.

- OK, you might have an argument there, but I'm still not sold. I mean, look at Damian Lillard! Or Russell Westbrook!

- Well, Lillard has never had playoff success and is now facing the struggles of leading a bad, young team like Ricky has over the past few years, and Westbrook has only made it to the Finals once and never won the thing despite playing with a certain Kevin Durant by his side. However, let me go on with another name...

Derek Fisher has made it to the Finals quite a few times, and won 5 rings shooting as bad as .500 (again, TS%) in two of those championship runs. He will allways be remembered for making the .4 shot, but his occasional 3 pointer and lack of scoring ability (he was a terrible finisher as well) are certainly not why he run the point for the Lakers all those years and now has a hand full of rings.

- Alright, now I'm starting to think this whole "different roles in a team" thing might actually be important. But, you know, it's only three guys...

- Yep, three guys with a bunch of rings and NBA Finals appearances among them. All champions over the last *decade*, four times to be exact. And we haven't even gone into other finalists, those are all winners. Remember Cavs unsung hero Matthew Dellavedova from last year and his .476 TS% for the playoffs, which is actually *below Rubio's career average*? But, wait, let me get back to the champions, cause that's what we're aiming for, right? Did I say 4 times out of the last 10 championships? That's my bad, I was forgetting about that other guy...

Rajon Rondo had a TS% of .454 for the playoffs on his championship year. You know how bad that is? That's as bad as Rubio's TS% last season, on one leg, and clearly the worst of his career.

You know, I might not be too good at making up stories (or maybe I am... It wasn't that bad, right?), but if those *facts* don't make anyone and everyone think twice before they try to connect PG scoring with playoff success (to the championship level, nonetheless), nothing will. For some it will always be a matter of refusing to face reality and be convinced.

[Mattya]

Jason Williams was a starter in every game for the Miami Heat during their championship run with a subpar .522 TS% on 9 points per game and 3.3 FGM in 30 minutes, with his only positive being his FT shooting, as he shot 40% from the field and barely 27% beyond the 3 point line. His scoring was not a factor, and he was a complete liability on defense plus not the playmaker that he once was. He just happened to be Miami's best option to start at PG in a team that also featured a declining Gary Payton over 24 MPG with a TS% of .524 on less than 6 PPG and 2.1 FGM. And you know what's best? Miami even had those two "scoring threats" at their guards positions sharing the court for more than 5 minutes per game throughout the playoffs!

- Yeah man, but that's only a one-time thing, far from the norm.

- Oh, but we haven't finished...

Jason Kidd won a championship ring posting 9 points and 3FGM in over 35MPG for the playoffs. He also made it to the finals twice with the Nets posting Rubioesque TS%'s as low as .492, but on nearly 18 attempts per game, which is by all means detrimental to any team and the best example of a terrible scorer.

- OK, you might have an argument there, but I'm still not sold. I mean, look at Damian Lillard! Or Russell Westbrook!

- Well, Lillard has never had playoff success and is now facing the struggles of leading a bad, young team like Ricky has over the past few years, and Westbrook has only made it to the Finals once and never won the thing despite playing with a certain Kevin Durant by his side. However, let me go on with another name...

Derek Fisher has made it to the Finals quite a few times, and won 5 rings shooting as bad as .500 (again, TS%) in two of those championship runs. He will allways be remembered for making the .4 shot, but his occasional 3 pointer and lack of scoring ability (he was a terrible finisher as well) are certainly not why he run the point for the Lakers all those years and now has a hand full of rings.

- Alright, now I'm starting to think this whole "different roles in a team" thing might actually be important. But, you know, it's only three guys...

- Yep, three guys with a bunch of rings and NBA Finals appearances among them. All champions over the last *decade*, four times to be exact. And we haven't even gone into other finalists, those are all winners. Remember Cavs unsung hero Matthew Dellavedova from last year and his .476 TS% for the playoffs, which is actually *below Rubio's career average*? But, wait, let me get back to the champions, cause that's what we're aiming for, right? Did I say 4 times out of the last 10 championships? That's my bad, I was forgetting about that other guy...

Rajon Rondo had a TS% of .454 for the playoffs on his championship year. You know how bad that is? That's as bad as Rubio's TS% last season, on one leg, and clearly the worst of his career.

You know, I might not be too good at making up stories (or maybe I am... It wasn't that bad, right?), but if those *facts* don't make anyone and everyone think twice before they try to connect PG scoring with playoff success (to the championship level, nonetheless), nothing will. For some it will always be a matter of refusing to face reality and be convinced.

What did Jason Williams shoot on the season from 3?

[guest81]

Those guys were just role players who made zero impact though. All of those guys were surrounded by 3 hall of famer's, minus Kidd. Wolves are looking to Rubio to be a lot more then just a Derrick Fisher or a Jason Williams. He's the second highest paid player on the team for crying out loud.

[Sugarless]

Jason Williams was a starter in every game for the Miami Heat during their championship run with a subpar .522 TS% on 9 points per game and 3.3 FGM in 30 minutes, with his only positive being his FT shooting, as he shot 40% from the field and barely 27% beyond the 3 point line. His scoring was not a factor, and he was a complete liability on defense plus not the playmaker that he once was. He just happened to be Miami's best option to start at PG in a team that also featured a declining Gary Payton over 24 MPG with a TS% of .524 on less than 6 PPG and 2.1 FGM. And you know what's best? Miami even had those two "scoring threats" at their guards positions sharing the court for more than 5 minutes per game throughout the playoffs!

- Yeah man, but that's only a one-time thing, far from the norm.

- Oh, but we haven't finished...

Jason Kidd won a championship ring posting 9 points and 3FGM in over 35MPG for the playoffs. He also made it to the finals twice with the Nets posting Rubioesque TS%'s as low as .492, but on nearly 18 attempts per game, which is by all means detrimental to any team and the best example of a terrible scorer.

- OK, you might have an argument there, but I'm still not sold. I mean, look at Damian Lillard! Or Russell Westbrook!

- Well, Lillard has never had playoff success and is now facing the struggles of leading a bad, young team like Ricky has over the past few years, and Westbrook has only made it to the Finals once and never won the thing despite playing with a certain Kevin Durant by his side. However, let me go on with another name...

Derek Fisher has made it to the Finals quite a few times, and won 5 rings shooting as bad as .500 (again, TS%) in two of those championship runs. He will allways be remembered for making the .4 shot, but his occasional 3 pointer and lack of scoring ability (he was a terrible finisher as well) are certainly not why he run the point for the Lakers all those years and now has a hand full of rings.

- Alright, now I'm starting to think this whole "different roles in a team" thing might actually be important. But, you know, it's only three guys...

- Yep, three guys with a bunch of rings and NBA Finals appearances among them. All champions over the last *decade*, four times to be exact. And we haven't even gone into other finalists, those are all winners. Remember Cavs unsung hero Matthew Dellavedova from last year and his .476 TS% for the playoffs, which is actually *below Rubio's career average*? But, wait, let me get back to the champions, cause that's what we're aiming for, right? Did I say 4 times out of the last 10 championships? That's my bad, I was forgetting about that other guy...

Rajon Rondo had a TS% of .454 for the playoffs on his championship year. You know how bad that is? That's as bad as Rubio's TS% last season, on one leg, and clearly the worst of his career.

You know, I might not be too good at making up stories (or maybe I am... It wasn't that bad, right?), but if those *facts* don't make anyone and everyone think twice before they try to connect PG scoring with playoff success (to the championship level, nonetheless), nothing will. For some it will always be a matter of refusing to face reality and be convinced.

What did Jason Williams shoot on the season from 3?

The fact that all you can ask after those numbers is a single question, about a single player, during the regular season, should tell you all you need to know about whether those assumptions are right or wrong.

And, BTW, the whole point of the argumentation was that Ricky Rubio can be a (huge) positive during the regular season, but you need scoring from your PG in the playoffs.

PS: If the only intention is to cherry-pick, I can tell you Rajon Rondo's 3-pt shooting for the season if you want. Here's a hint for those willing to guess: he only made *5 threes* during the whole year, so don't aim too high.