Is Flip Saunders doing a good job as President ? (Poll)

[Merc_Porto]

Maybe another dumb thread, i dont know, but i'll give it a try.

So, give me your tought about this.
He makes the decisions since:

2013 / 2014 - President
2014 / 2015 - President / Coach

Bad decisions ? good decisions ?
What do you expect of the future with him ?
What are your perspectives ?

Discuss ...

[Calinks]

Have you seen this economy?

[Merc_Porto]

Have you seen this economy?

[slinky]

I might have chosen 'neutral' or 'jury is still out'...but based on what we know today...I voted yes..

This is as 'president only' list...with the caveat that hiring a coaching staff is equal parts President/GM and Head Coach responsibility...I think he has done good things as a head coach including force feedings Wiggins offensively and defensively.

Bad-
Chase Buddinger signing
Roster balance
Retreads on coaching staff(would have preferred at least 1 new blood, not recycled wolves blood or Flip blood)

Neutral-
Corey Brewer signing
Kevin Martin signing
Pekovic extension
Appointing himself as head coach
Thad Young for a 1st (becomes good value if he signs long term)
Zach Lavine and GRIII draft

Good-
Standing ground on Love trade(didn't jump at first offers)
Adding Wiggins, Bennett
Buyout JJ
Hired full time shooting coach
Mo Williams signing
Seemingly definitive roster philosophy(athleticsm, active defenders)
Signing Rubio to below max deal
Deal with Mayo Clinic for practice facility

[C.lupus]

I'd say good to very good so far. The Budinger, Brewer, and Martin signings were for Adelman. All three should have had a team option on the last year instead of a player option but otherwise I don't mind the signings that much because they were requests from the head coach. I like a leader who listens to and trusts the people under him and gives them the tools they need/want to succeed. It didn't turn out to be the best long-term for the franchise but it wasn't a bad management move.

Another thing I would add to Slinky's list under "Good" is trading down for Shabazz and Dieng. That's looking like a very good move atm.

I don't like the roster imbalance right now but I don't expect a complete rebuild to happen in one season, either. The long-term core isn't that imbalanced, he just needs to find a way to dump Budinger (sooner than later please) and Brewer. The biggest roster move head scratcher for me was the Hummel signing but he's a minimum guy who can be dumped/cut fairly easily so it isn't the end of the world.

The biggest thing, though, for me is that he's trying to change the culture here. The new practice/sports medicine facility, new scouts, and other things he's done are designed to bring a state of the art basketball mentality to the whole organization and that is a very, very good thing.

[guest81]

I'd say good to very good so far. The Budinger, Brewer, and Martin signings were for Adelman. All three should have had a team option on the last year instead of a player option but otherwise I don't mind the signings that much because they were requests from the head coach. I like a leader who listens to and trusts the people under him and gives them the tools they need/want to succeed. It didn't turn out to be the best long-term for the franchise but it wasn't a bad management move.

Another thing I would add to Slinky's list under "Good" is trading down for Shabazz and Dieng. That's looking like a very good move atm.

I don't like the roster imbalance right now but I don't expect a complete rebuild to happen in one season, either. The long-term core isn't that imbalanced, he just needs to find a way to dump Budinger (sooner than later please) and Brewer. The biggest roster move head scratcher for me was the Hummel signing but he's a minimum guy who can be dumped/cut fairly easily so it isn't the end of the world.

The biggest thing, though, for me is that he's trying to change the culture here. The new practice/sports medicine facility, new scouts, and other things he's done are designed to bring a state of the art basketball mentality to the whole organization and that is a very, very good thing.

It gets pretty annoying to blame Adelman for Flip's bad signings. It's not like Adelman was in on the negotiations for Bud. I don't doubt for a second that Adleman said he'd want Chase on the team, but people act like Adleman told Flip that you better sign Chase or else!

[C.lupus]

I don't know why you doubt that. It was pretty much reported at the time and Martin and Budinger are "Adelman guys". No one is saying Rick held a gun to Flip's head but I have no doubt he gave Flip a list of guys he'd like. And anyway, if you read what I wrote, I'm not "blaming" anybody.

[phonzadellika]

Flip has done a lot better job than I thought he was going to. I like where the team is heading.

Also, not going to give him demerits for Bud and Martin. They were 'win-now' moves to keep Kevin Love and give Adelman one last chance at a ring and they were probably the best moves that could have been made without crippling the rest of the franchise long-term.

I didn't like the Pek signing as much because of the extra year on the deal. I probably would have given Pek extra money per year instead. I think that's really the only bad move he's made so far.

[minimus]

Even if I'm still upset about Pek, Martin and Budinger contracts, I like Flip recent moves as GM.
1) Adrien, he is perfect fit, tough guy, rebounder and defender, knows how to draw contact. The best role player in our team.
2) Daniels, again perfect fit, 3pt shooter, high IQ player, very efficient in limited minutes
3) Hummel, I'd say that Robbie is acts like true veteran: he is always ready to play role that coach wants. He is self confident, always hustles
4) Mo Williams, much needed backup PG, who has to play a lot of minutes due to RR injury.
5) Shabazz development into one of the best 6th man in the league
+
Raduljica rumor. He can give us some presence under rim against true bigs.

To sum up. I like that Flip has been able to find role players who fit our need. Which is very important thing to build our team chemistry. I am eager to see how Flip will resolve issue with 15th roster spot and Raduljica. Hope that Adrien will not be cut. Also I hope to see 2nd year with team option in Adrien and Raduljica deal. Keeping low cost, but efficient role players on 2yrs contract makes absolutely sense.

Perfect scenario would be Thad or Bud (+GR3) trade to free open spot for Raduljica. We still need 3rd PG, who can defend quick PG and give us 10-15 minutes of solid play.But we can wait if RR recovers, since we have Mo and developing Zach.

P.S. I don't like much Flip as coach, because of a lot of mid range jumpers and ISOs, I believe that we should use more corners 3s, back door cut and PnR (see ATL offense/defense) But with 2 rookies and 2 sophomores in starting 5, it is hard to run any offense. Especially if your PG is rookie comboguard. We should wait until RR and Martin recover.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I'm relatively pleased so far.
Muhammad/Dieng is a way better draft than I could've hoped for.
Jury is still out on Lavine, but it seems to be a worthy gamble at the very least.
Love trade - even with Young and Bennett looking suspect and even with circumstance playing a big part, bottom line is we got Wiggins, got to give credit.
I'm ok w/ the Brewer and Martin contracts overall, they aren't bad value. Maybe Pekovic he should have seen it coming, but I know I didn't want to lose that dude for nothing. I was always optimistic that his injuries were bad luck since they weren't major. It's only this year that it's finally sinking in that this guy refuses to stay healthy.

Only one I dont like I was never comfortable with was Budinger. That was weird to get that contract with the injury circumstances. He was 100% unproven in Minnesota. And I remember being doubly WTF when Dunleavy signed a little while later for half the money.

I'm not thrilled with the on court product, and as a by product, the coaching - only guys that play with fire are Adrien and Shabazz and sometimes Wiggins - but at least he knows how to get Shabazz and Wiggins involved. I'd like to see more attacking the basket, but the post ups are a nice touch.

[theGreatRC]

Didn't read through the thread yet, but he's been a solid GM.

He had us scratching our heads with his first move in the draft: Burke (Player of the year) for Bazz (Supposed head case) and Dieng (known from his Louisville championship) ..but look at them now, both productive players and they would be great off our bench when we become a better team.

Got the best package he could have gotten for Love. a #1 draft pick from 2014 and a #1 draft pick from 2013. Even if Bennett doesn't pan out, everyone knew this trade was basically Wiggins for Love.

The whole Thad Young thing is still a mystery; I know going into the season, we had hopes of competing in the Western Conference and Thad was going to be a productive player on the team, but obviously things haven't gone as planned and he's been forced into a bigger role and is failing at it.

I can't remember if Flip was the one who signed K-Mart to his deal, but it was a good price in hindsight with what everyone else is getting paid.

Flip should have let the market decide Pek's contract, I think Big Pek is overpaid given that he's been injured every year since he's gotten significant minutes..but whatever.

[Basti]

The only thing I will mention that hasn't been mentioned is that while I have never been a big fan of him being the coach, if the Grizzlies' owner hadn't realized what a gem of a coach he has, we'd have our coach for the future. You can't blame Flip on that one.

But you can blame him for the country club coaching staff that he assembled afterwards.

[Merc_Porto]

I think he has doing a good job as president.

He made mistakes, like overpaying Pek (long contract) and Budinger.

Another thing with Flip is, he need to stop thinking he can win without defense.

But the major problem is, doesn't matter how bad he is doing as a coach ( he could have, Lebron - Davis - Cousins and doing a bad job) that is never going to fire himself.

He is president / minority owner, friend of the big dog ( G.Taylor) = talking about bad combinations.

[Feilong]

I have a slightly different opinion.
GM
a) Burke -> Bazz + Dieng looks like a very good trade (i preferred McCollum(POR))
b) Love -> Wig + Bennett + Young looks like a good trade (i preferred sending Bennett to PHI instead of MIA 1st)
c) Pek was a complete overpay. Flip was biding against himself. (i was arguing with MIN bit writers that the offer should have been 4/40M or 5/50M with 5year team option.)
d) Martin, Brewer, Budinger i understand why he did it.
Coach
a) I don't like his offensive philosophy (long 2s, few 3s etc)
b) I don't like that he can't inspire the team to play with energy
c) I don't like his rotations.
d) I don't like what he is doing on defense.
e) I don't like his staff. The first thing you do as a coach is to fire the idiots. Why Adelman's son is still his assistant? Why you hire your buddies? Your son? The best coach we had was Sikma. Where is he?
f) I like that he finally hired a shooting coach.

Conclusion.
As GM he is solid.
As coach he is pretty bad.
Fire yourself and find someone else to coach the team. Hey Malone is available. Hoiberg ship has sailed.

[TheZachAttack]

I think Flip has done a good job as President of the team, so to answer your question...Yes. I'll highlight a couple of moves alone that in terms of big picture, alone give Flip a passing grade.

1) Burke Trade

Burke may or may not develop into a solid player during his pro career, right now it's looking like leaning towards more towards the latter. But that fact is irrelevant to me. With Rubio on this team and looking like he's going to be the starter for the long term future means Burke really doesn't fit with this team. Or, at least...I think Shabazz Muhammed and Gorgui DIeng fit the Wolves better.

Trading a worse fit for 2 players who are arguably better fits and players? Good deal.

Shabazz and Gorgui have already shown enough skills to be rotation players on any NBA team and have looked, at times, like players that could flash some all star potential.


2) Kevin Love Trade

To be able to get Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett is a steal. Flip again nabs another long term starter in Wiggins and Bennett is at least showing that he looks like he can develop into a rotation guy.

3) Drafting Zach Lavine

He's now quite as new and shiny as he once was and is seemingly slowing down a little bit, but I think you have to remember he's only 19 years old and extremely skinny and weak playing against NBA vets at a position he didn't even play in in college. Zach's a big part of the future as well, at worst as a 6th man type of guy off the bench.

The majority of our core moving forward is because of moves by Flip.

If you consider our core Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Shabazz/Bennett/Gorgui. All but Rubio are Flip guys. And you can actually see how they could fit together in the future.

In reality most of Flip's bad moves are only bad moves judging by hindsight. For a couple years injuries created the allusion that if they could get everyone healthy we could make the playoffs.


However it's obvious that Flip, as a coach, is too close to the team for his own good. There's no need to berate your team and two players who have worked really hard this year--especially Bazz.

We're pretty obviously tanking. We're starting a 19 year old, who was a backup SG in college, at point guard. Another 19 year old at SG. And two guys who were know more than DNPs or in Bazz's case in the D-league at this time last year.

Not sure what Flip is trying to accomplish. Instead he should work on actually implementing some form of offensive or defensive system because I'm not sure we have one.

[Narf]

FlIp didn't overpay Pek. Market value is not overpaid.

Pek is oft injured and clearly a top 10 center when healthy. Fricking look around at what other lesser centers not on rookie contracts or taking a discount like Duncan get paid. A healthy Pek gets $16 mil a year not $12. With the new TV deal coming, Pek is going to be underpaid his last 2 years and you lot are mad about it.

2 years Pek said he could have played through some of his injuries, but the Wolves were tanking. You guys should know that, even if everyone else doesn't. His injury risk is overblown. And I wonder if he'd be playing now if we were competing for anything other then a high lotto pick.

[Klomp]

Not only that, but people talk about letting the market decide Pek's contract. Ultimately, it's Pek that decides Pek's contract.

Just because you think we should've offered him 7 mil/year doesn't mean Pek has to agree to that deal.

[Mattya]

FlIp didn't overpay Pek. Market value is not overpaid.

Pek is oft injured and clearly a top 10 center when healthy. Fricking look around at what other lesser centers not on rookie contracts or taking a discount like Duncan get paid. A healthy Pek gets $16 mil a year not $12. With the new TV deal coming, Pek is going to be underpaid his last 2 years and you lot are mad about it.

2 years Pek said he could have played through some of his injuries, but the Wolves were tanking. You guys should know that, even if everyone else doesn't. His injury risk is overblown. And I wonder if he'd be playing now if we were competing for anything other then a high lotto pick.

I agree. People want to rip Pek for his injuries, but want us to have guys sit out even longer. We don't know what is going on with Pek. I would guess since we have heard so little they are sitting him for the tank.

[minimus]

I agree. People want to rip Pek for his injuries, but want us to have guys sit out even longer. We don't know what is going on with Pek. I would guess since we have heard so little they are sitting him for the tank.

I am affraid that it is not smartest solution either. If Pek is healthy enough then keep him playing, increase his value across the league and trade him for long term project, draft pick etc, because we are tanking. Otherwise we have 12 mil C who doesn't earn his money, who loses trade value with every DNP without clear reason. And yes, he is overpaid. It's not only about 12 mil per year, it is about 60 mil fully guaranteed in 5 years.

[PZiv]

I agree. People want to rip Pek for his injuries, but want us to have guys sit out even longer. We don't know what is going on with Pek. I would guess since we have heard so little they are sitting him for the tank.

I am affraid that it is not smartest solution either. If Pek is healthy enough then keep him playing, increase his value across the league and trade him for long term project, draft pick etc, because we are tanking. Otherwise we have 12 mil C who doesn't earn his money, who loses trade value with every DNP without clear reason. And yes, he is overpaid. It's not only about 12 mil per year, it is about 60 mil fully guaranteed in 5 years.

From what I searched around we can always "flip" him for Sanders(personal behavior issues) might even get 2015 pick if they make playoffs, Lopez(contract+injury concerns) or something else. People are aware of his value and aware that his injury treatment has been prolonged for "tanking" reasons. I mean why would you rush a guy for a lost season. Makes no damn sense. What is currently done with Pek and with both Martin and Rubio can be pictured like this: "GASOL DNP-VERTIGO" reasons.


as for Flip GM he needs to get rid of coach Flip.