Are Timberwolves fans pissed about Kris Dunn over Jamal Murray because I am!

[Krapinsky]

I remain dumbfounded why Dunn isn't getting 30 + minutes in all of these remaining meaningless games. Makes me think Thibs plans on Rubio being his point guard next year, since he is certainly not investing playing time in developing Dunn right now.

[King Malta]

Both Dunn and Murray are likely going to be just role players for their careers. I just can't view this as a major mistake.

This sums it up for me. We passed on an average player to get an average player. On the scale of terrible things this franchise has done this is barely worth flinching about.

[Merc_Porto]

Why Murray ?

Buddy Hield is the one that looks to be the real deal. And he was in the discussion as well.

And don't bring stats please, this is my opinion by watching these guys. I know Murray and Hield have almost the same stats.

[Sugarless]

Please stop it. Right now you ask around the league and no one is taking Dunn before Murray. The future is not set in stone and both could still end up having similar careers in terms of role, but right now you have a 20 yo who can light it up and has a better feel for the game, and a 23 year old who can defend but can't create for others or for himself, which is the most serious knock for a PG.

How many of those other teams already have three 21-year olds who can light it up already on the roster?

It doesn't matter how many (even the Wolves could have used Murray despite their 3 scorers. The team has still lacked scoring off the bench and outside shooting). Murray's season has still been better and more promising than Dunn's, and that's what you look for in a young guy that's just had his first year on the league.

[Sugarless]

Why Murray ?

Buddy Hield is the one that looks to be the real deal. And he was in the discussion as well.

And don't bring stats please, this is my opinion by watching these guys. I know Murray and Hield have almost the same stats.

I think the reason is plenty of guys on this board bought the idea that Murray was a PG, and that he was only playing SG because of Cal having Tyler Ulis at PG (despite Murray clearly not having the skillset to be a floor general in the NBA). So now he's the one being compared to Dunn.

But you're right, Hield has had the best season of the three in my opinion, he had a clear role and had the body and the skills to step into it right away (which is the reason he was my top choice if we kept the pick), and that's what he's done. As a scorer who doesn't need the ball in his hands he's been excellent in Sacramento, although he also needs to get better in terms of moving the ball and definitely on defense. It's still not a given that a younger guy like Murray won't end up having a better career, but Buddy has been the best of the three with these last couple of months (he's also had a better opportunity after the trade, that's undeniable), and he really fit the Wolves needs coming into the season.

[Klomp]

Murray's season has still been better and more promising than Dunn's, and that's what you look for in a young guy that's just had his first year on the league.

Actually, I look for a young guy who projects to have a better career, not just one who projects to have a better rookie year.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Dunn has nba level defense right now and most certainly offers just as much on the offensive end as rush. I dont thimk it hurts to start dunn (as the sg) for a couple of games to see how he looks for extended minutes.

[Sugarless]

Murray's season has still been better and more promising than Dunn's, and that's what you look for in a young guy that's just had his first year on the league.

Actually, I look for a young guy who projects to have a better career, not just one who projects to have a better rookie year.

Precisely my point.

[Killboard]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend. Pick Dunn when offensive talent is available is like pick Markannen when Isaac still on board.
Isnt anything bad per se, but it makes harder to fit the roster spots beside them to make a good all around unit. Dunn should at least make a leap shooting the 3 in the next couple of seasons to fit easily on a any given rotation.

[Sugarless]

Dunn has nba level defense right now and most certainly offers just as much on the offensive end as rush. I dont thimk it hurts to start dunn (as the sg) for a couple of games to see how he looks for extended minutes.

I don't think it'd be a bad idea to start Kris with no shot at the playoffs, but let's not get too carried away: as bad as Rush has been offensively, he's a career 40% 3-pt shooter who helps space the floor for a team very much in need of that, plus he doesn't need the ball in his hands and doesn't turn it over. That's a better fit and more than you can say about Dunn right now, unfortunately. But yes, why not start the rookie and give him half an hour since there's nothing in play anymore and you're not gonna help build the team these last two games. It's always good to give a rookie the chance to end on a positive note.

[Klomp]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend.

So Karl-Anthony Towns goes against the league trend?

[Mattya]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend. Pick Dunn when offensive talent is available is like pick Markannen when Isaac still on board.
Isnt anything bad per se, but it makes harder to fit the roster spots beside them to make a good all around unit. Dunn should at least make a leap shooting the 3 in the next couple of seasons to fit easily on a any given rotation.

Ridiculous claim. I find it hilarious reading comments like this after hearing for since Ricky entered the league how valuable his defense was. If Dunn can improve his shooting and as he gets more accustomed to his role on offense(which is significantly different than the role he had at providence, especially compared to Murray) then he becomes a very valuable player.

[ace625214]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend.

So Karl-Anthony Towns goes against the league trend?

I'm not agreeing with his statement, but KAT was picked for his potential to be elite at both ends, not his offensive skills. He was supposed to be raw offensively and a great defender immediately. If the pick was based solely on offense it would have been Okafor.

[Killboard]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend. Pick Dunn when offensive talent is available is like pick Markannen when Isaac still on board.
Isnt anything bad per se, but it makes harder to fit the roster spots beside them to make a good all around unit. Dunn should at least make a leap shooting the 3 in the next couple of seasons to fit easily on a any given rotation.

Ridiculous claim. I find it hilarious reading comments like this after hearing for since Ricky entered the league how valuable his defense was. If Dunn can improve his shooting and as he gets more accustomed to his role on offense(which is significantly different than the role he had at providence, especially compared to Murray) then he becomes a very valuable player.

Ricky was always a two way player. He never was a scorer, but his offensive game was at very good level even as a rookie. His defense was always good too, but he never had the struggles Dunn has running a NBA offense.

And I never said Dunn can't be valuable, just like a offensive big can, but is not the trend in the league.

[Mattya]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend. Pick Dunn when offensive talent is available is like pick Markannen when Isaac still on board.
Isnt anything bad per se, but it makes harder to fit the roster spots beside them to make a good all around unit. Dunn should at least make a leap shooting the 3 in the next couple of seasons to fit easily on a any given rotation.

Ridiculous claim. I find it hilarious reading comments like this after hearing for since Ricky entered the league how valuable his defense was. If Dunn can improve his shooting and as he gets more accustomed to his role on offense(which is significantly different than the role he had at providence, especially compared to Murray) then he becomes a very valuable player.

Ricky was always a two way player. He never was a scorer, but his offensive game was at very good level even as a rookie. His defense was always good too, but he never had the struggles Dunn has running a NBA offense.

And I never said Dunn can't be valuable, just like a offensive big can, but is not the trend in the league.

Who cares about the trend of the league. The thing that never goes out of style in the NBA is defense. If you can bring that, you have a role in the NBA, and Dunn still has potential on offense.

[Killboard]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend.

So Karl-Anthony Towns goes against the league trend?

Towns was considered an elite defensive prospect after the historical season in Kentucky. That's why I quoted Markannen and not him.

Towns isn't able to defend at good level playing in the the perimeter, and is far from being considered elite as a rim protector. He has the tools and the background, and looked good witj KG who is a excellent communicator, so at least there is hope.

[Killboard]

Ridiculous claim. I find it hilarious reading comments like this after hearing for since Ricky entered the league how valuable his defense was. If Dunn can improve his shooting and as he gets more accustomed to his role on offense(which is significantly different than the role he had at providence, especially compared to Murray) then he becomes a very valuable player.

Ricky was always a two way player. He never was a scorer, but his offensive game was at very good level even as a rookie. His defense was always good too, but he never had the struggles Dunn has running a NBA offense.

And I never said Dunn can't be valuable, just like a offensive big can, but is not the trend in the league.

Who cares about the trend of the league. The thing that never goes out of style in the NBA is defense. If you can bring that, you have a role in the NBA, and Dunn still has potential on offense.

Sure, if he develops a 3pt shot he will fit well with any lineup (at Sg at least) like I said earlier. The only importance I give to the league trend is that it defines how teams are succeeding. There will be outliers, but by definition there will be less teams that can succeed on alternative strategies. That means is harder to build teams in that way, but certainly possible.

[Worm Guts]

Pick a Guard by his defensive skills is like pick a big for his offensive skills. It goes against the league trend. Pick Dunn when offensive talent is available is like pick Markannen when Isaac still on board.
Isnt anything bad per se, but it makes harder to fit the roster spots beside them to make a good all around unit. Dunn should at least make a leap shooting the 3 in the next couple of seasons to fit easily on a any given rotation.

Ridiculous claim. I find it hilarious reading comments like this after hearing for since Ricky entered the league how valuable his defense was. If Dunn can improve his shooting and as he gets more accustomed to his role on offense(which is significantly different than the role he had at providence, especially compared to Murray) then he becomes a very valuable player.

I would actually consider it a generally accurate statement, although that obviously doesn't mean you shouldn't value good defensive guards or good offensive bigs, but I think in general I'd prefer the opposite.

[TheProdigy]

Ridiculous claim. I find it hilarious reading comments like this after hearing for since Ricky entered the league how valuable his defense was. If Dunn can improve his shooting and as he gets more accustomed to his role on offense(which is significantly different than the role he had at providence, especially compared to Murray) then he becomes a very valuable player.

Ricky was always a two way player. He never was a scorer, but his offensive game was at very good level even as a rookie. His defense was always good too, but he never had the struggles Dunn has running a NBA offense.

And I never said Dunn can't be valuable, just like a offensive big can, but is not the trend in the league.

Who cares about the trend of the league. The thing that never goes out of style in the NBA is defense. If you can bring that, you have a role in the NBA, and Dunn still has potential on offense.

An elite defensive big man can completely change the overall defense of a team. Take a look at Utah for example - on defense their perimeter players are able to be more aggressive defending jump shots because they know Rudy Gobert is waiting behind them. Take Gobert off their roster, and their defense would be much different. A weak offensive big man can be hidden to some extent because they aren't expected to handle the ball much.

For a point guard, I would much rather have a player that is better on offense than defense. A team can't function properly when the primary ball handler is a turnover machine.

Of course we would all rather have 2 way players at every position. I think the point he's trying to make is that some positions have special responsibilities that differentiate those positions from other positions. Even though Dunn may end up being the best defending pg in the league, he won't last long if he doesn't figure out how to distribute and limit turnovers. That being said, I still think he figures things out.

[Mattya]

Ricky was always a two way player. He never was a scorer, but his offensive game was at very good level even as a rookie. His defense was always good too, but he never had the struggles Dunn has running a NBA offense.

And I never said Dunn can't be valuable, just like a offensive big can, but is not the trend in the league.

Who cares about the trend of the league. The thing that never goes out of style in the NBA is defense. If you can bring that, you have a role in the NBA, and Dunn still has potential on offense.

Sure, if he develops a 3pt shot he will fit well with any lineup (at Sg at least) like I said earlier. The only importance I give to the league trend is that it defines how teams are succeeding. There will be outliers, but by definition there will be less teams that can succeed on alternative strategies. That means is harder to build teams in that way, but certainly possible.

He doesn't even need to improve his outside percentage that much. Especially considering how little attempts he has. Teams should focus on getting their players their most efficient shots. A 33% shooter on more attempts isn't going to make me regret anything. Now if Dunn doesn't improve and Murray does, then it is a different discussion. You can always build teams around defenders.