Jordan McLaughlin - JMAC

[Jedzz]

Excuse me if there is already a thread. Can't find it.

First season playing NBA games. From Gleague. Showed fast progression and because of other's injuries we got to see him get pretty good burn this season considering the path he had to take. The games over 20 minutes and specifically two starts over 30 mins were amazing displays of skill/effort for a rook or a vet.

Results If we focus on the 11 games of at least 20 minutes:

53.1% FG
41.7% 3FG (3.5 avg/att, range of 2-6)
6 avg assists
12.3pts

Also, what seemed like more successful dunks then we saw from Wiggins in 6 seasons and maybe any PG here. Bounce and aggression. He's a terror with minutes.

The two starts?
Clippers (including Kawhi): 73% FG, 50% 3FG, 4 boards, 11 assists, 24pts
Nuggets: 56% FG, 50% 3FG, 3/3 100% FT, 4 boards, 10 assists, 15 pts

Does the small sample size bother you, or does the ramping increased output as minutes increase intrigue you as it does me? Many have comments of signing him cheap on a 1+3. Is that reasonable given what he's shown or is that just homer hope? How high would you draft to get those kinds of results? Please try to be honest, but I won't jerk your chain if you aren't impressed.

[Jedzz]

SIZE: The elephant in the room. 5-11. This is probably the reason for going undrafted as he was a little beast in college as well.

Examples exist of productive short gamers. How about Isaiah Thomas (5-9) and his 9 years in the league averging 29 minutes/g, all star games maybe when with Boston(?), drafted 60th overal(Rd2). What I want to know is how did a player drafted that low start 37 games his first season and maintain starting roles? Did injuries give him the chance like JMac, or did someone with SAC just recognize his abilities early? Should JMac get that kind of recognition from a team?

I think size can be offset by BBIQ, skills, effort. I suppose I should add Bounce for him. What say you? Could JMAC maintain the numbers we saw if playing that much often?

[ClarkeW]

I really liked what JMac did with his minutes last year, particularly as the season progressed. I am definitely hoping to see in a Timberwolves uniform again next year.

At the same time, I’m not opposed to bringing in another ball handling guard. I think both JMac and DLo are capable of playing off ball (they did great in the limited sample size on the court with each other) and would like to maximize this type of lineup. For me, Killian Hayes is still the ideal prospect for us for this reason. If we’re in the top five, that seems like a really natural fit.

[winforlose]

JMAC is a mixed bag. His defense is weak, his size is a hinderance for rebounding (we were one of the worst teams in the league at rebounding.) His 3 point shooting got hot in the back half of the season, but in the front half he was cold as ice. His passing is between above average and good. Overall he is a decent second string option, but more practically a cheap third string.

[minimus]

The best JMac skill is his decision making. He has perfect balance between scoring and involving others. This balance has been missing for many years here in MIN. I love Rubio, but watching him not taking those open shots was painful, I was mad at Teague when he did not pass the ball to open KAT. That is why he is essential part of our roster. JMac shoots in rhythm, makes extra pass without overpassing, drives to the rim when he sees an open lane, he dumps off the ball to rolling man when defense collapses.

[Calinks]

Funny to see this thread was watching a Timberwovles game for the fist time in months, a game where they played the Pelicans and was just noticing that Jmac was playing better than Russell. The guy has huge heart and can get hot. I really like him to be back, he seems like an amazing 3rs string PG and a capable back up.

[Jedzz]

Funny to see this thread was watching a Timberwovles game for the fist time in months, a game where they played the Pelicans and was just noticing that Jmac was playing better than Russell. The guy has huge heart and can get hot. I really like him to be back, he seems like an amazing 3rs string PG and a capable back up.

Interesting thought.
I'm not going to knock on Dlo because I like the confident and calm game he brings to Wolves, he was effective and he had just got here. But I think if we are honest with ourselves about what JMac showed in some of these +20/+30 minutes games we would be hard pressed to find any PG in the Wolves recent years that ever did anything like he did.

[Calinks]

The question with Jmac is consistency. Could he keep that up over a season? Over years? He also had some bad games too, right now he seems like an amazing third-string guy, if he can be more consistent, he could be a really good back up, maybe more. I would really want to see him back next season, I hope we pursue him for a longer deal.

I'll tell you what, I am already more impressed/happy with him than Tyus. I know Tyus has some greatly advanced stats but Jordan just has that extra gear and energy, he's like a JJ Barea outside of a wolves uniform.

[Jedzz]

The question with Jmac is consistency. Could he keep that up over a season? Over years? He also had some bad games too, right now he seems like an amazing third-string guy, if he can be more consistent, he could be a really good back up, maybe more. I would really want to see him back next season, I hope we pursue him for a longer deal.

I'll tell you what, I am already more impressed/happy with him than Tyus. I know Tyus has some greatly advanced stats but Jordan just has that extra gear and energy, he's like a JJ Barea outside of a wolves uniform.

I don't want to argue with people in this topic but if you are looking for a counter to a consistency point for me it would be I think he showed tremendous consistency once those minutes went over 20 in games. 10 of 11 of those coming from Christmas on after his second return to NBA level. To ask for consistency from bigtime draft rookies is even a bit much to ask. JMac was clearly underwater and even visibly distressed the first few games making that initial adjustment from G to NBA. But the guy who came back after a small injury and second moment in G was transformed. I'm not sure. Is it better to see them struggle at first to transition and then take off running later in rookie year, or is it better to see them play alright early and then totally tank or hit a wall much of the rest of season? Culver comes to mind as opposite from JMac. Both cases could just be typical rookie transitioning. However Culver never showed the high level yet that JMac already has.

JJ Barea point. I like some of this comparison, then in some ways not. Obviously size comparison,undrafted, and his staying power in the league is another example of a short guy getting it done. Also just being a constant terror on the court and though typically playing off bench, capable of filling in as a starter and producing. Like he's done in playoffs for teams. I think his teams have a 7-4 w/l record in the playoffs with him starting. However, might have to point out some fairly large physical differences too.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

JMac bounces true for real slams over real defenders, these aren't Barea pregame attempts that fail. JMac finishes above rim as smoothly as from layups. This also could mean he could develop defensively better than some expect. Also, Barea didn't start averaging 2.5 attempts or more from 3 until his sixth season. Like Barea, I could easily see Jmac playing a backup role and being ready at a moments notice to fill in as starting PG if needed and hold down the fort well, even surprise us. I could see him playing along with a starting PG here at times and having the BBIQ to switch off quickly. JJ Barea did some of that with his Wolves stint.

I am concerned that you threw in the "third string" guy comment that so many are maintaining in each post. Positive comment/third string comment seems to be equation for many posts. I so wish a few of you might start showing us what the difference is to starting or direct backup PGs from what this rookie already has shown that leaves you thinking 3rd string. Because without that from anyone yet and I'm getting the impression this is entirely based on his height/draft and an imaginary limit people are attributing to him. Is that unfair of me to state? Because if it's true then I'm not sure people are being honest with themselves on this player.

The health and staying power for full seasons might be a really valid argument against the starting PG role for a team heading into a season. JJ Barea again comes in as a good example. Maybe Rubio as well when he was a scrawny punk. These little guys have to play harder to be successful and I think they likely do get beat up some each season. Of course larger players are missing games just as much lately. I would say giving up 20-60 pounds to everyone else on court is dangerous at times. Especially when I see JMac dunking over guys like Capela. An occasional injury may result. However, I don't think that should at all rule him out of direct backup PG off the bench duties. If we are hoping to have exceptional starter level players playing first backup PG here the expectations are probably wishful thinking. And yet, maybe JMac offers that starter skilset level from a first backup point role and we get away with it purely on the reality of his size and Gleague entrance. I'm just a little surprised people aren't seeing what he has as a high level skillset already.

[Norseman79]

The question with Jmac is consistency. Could he keep that up over a season? Over years? He also had some bad games too, right now he seems like an amazing third-string guy, if he can be more consistent, he could be a really good back up, maybe more. I would really want to see him back next season, I hope we pursue him for a longer deal.

I'll tell you what, I am already more impressed/happy with him than Tyus. I know Tyus has some greatly advanced stats but Jordan just has that extra gear and energy, he's like a JJ Barea outside of a wolves uniform.

I don't want to argue with people in this topic but if you are looking for a counter to a consistency point for me it would be I think he showed tremendous consistency once those minutes went over 20 in games. 10 of 11 of those coming from Christmas on after his second return to NBA level. To ask for consistency from bigtime draft rookies is even a bit much to ask. JMac was clearly underwater and even visibly distressed the first few games making that initial adjustment from G to NBA. But the guy who came back after a small injury and second moment in G was transformed. I'm not sure. Is it better to see them struggle at first to transition and then take off running later in rookie year, or is it better to see them play alright early and then totally tank or hit a wall much of the rest of season? Culver comes to mind as opposite from JMac. Both cases could just be typical rookie transitioning. However Culver never showed the high level yet that JMac already has.

JJ Barea point. I like some of this comparison, then in some ways not. Obviously size comparison,undrafted, and his staying power in the league is another example of a short guy getting it done. Also just being a constant terror on the court and though typically playing off bench, capable of filling in as a starter and producing. Like he's done in playoffs for teams. I think his teams have a 7-4 w/l record in the playoffs with him starting. However, might have to point out some fairly large physical differences too.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

JMac bounces true for real slams over real defenders, these aren't Barea pregame attempts that fail. JMac finishes above rim as smoothly as from layups. This also could mean he could develop defensively better than some expect. Also, Barea didn't start averaging 2.5 attempts or more from 3 until his sixth season. Like Barea, I could easily see Jmac playing a backup role and being ready at a moments notice to fill in as starting PG if needed and hold down the fort well, even surprise us. I could see him playing along with a starting PG here at times and having the BBIQ to switch off quickly. JJ Barea did some of that with his Wolves stint.

I am concerned that you threw in the "third string" guy comment that so many are maintaining in each post. Positive comment/third string comment seems to be equation for many posts. I so wish a few of you might start showing us what the difference is to starting or direct backup PGs from what this rookie already has shown that leaves you thinking 3rd string. Because without that from anyone yet and I'm getting the impression this is entirely based on his height/draft and an imaginary limit people are attributing to him. Is that unfair of me to state? Because if it's true then I'm not sure people are being honest with themselves on this player.

The health and staying power for full seasons might be a really valid argument against the starting PG role for a team heading into a season. JJ Barea again comes in as a good example. Maybe Rubio as well when he was a scrawny punk. These little guys have to play harder to be successful and I think they likely do get beat up some each season. Of course larger players are missing games just as much lately. I would say giving up 20-60 pounds to everyone else on court is dangerous at times. Especially when I see JMac dunking over guys like Capela. An occasional injury may result. However, I don't think that should at all rule him out of direct backup PG off the bench duties. If we are hoping to have exceptional starter level players playing first backup PG here the expectations are probably wishful thinking. And yet, maybe JMac offers that starter skilset level from a first backup point role and we get away with it purely on the reality of his size and Gleague entrance. I'm just a little surprised people aren't seeing what he has as a high level skillset already.

Yes, I would prefer a bigger PG. However, I think JMac has earned the backup PG spot and minutes, and am happy with him going forward. I like him paired with Culver in 2nd unit.

[Klomp]

I am concerned that you threw in the "third string" guy comment that so many are maintaining in each post. Positive comment/third string comment seems to be equation for many posts. I so wish a few of you might start showing us what the difference is to starting or direct backup PGs from what this rookie already has shown that leaves you thinking 3rd string. Because without that from anyone yet and I'm getting the impression this is entirely based on his height/draft and an imaginary limit people are attributing to him. Is that unfair of me to state? Because if it's true then I'm not sure people are being honest with themselves on this player.

Here's the thing.....I don't think it has to do with any imaginary limits. It's about creating the best possible team depth top to bottom. McLaughlin did great in the time that he had...but how was the team's record?

The simple fact is that practically everyone on this team needs to be upgraded if this is going to be a title-contending team. It's not an insult on anyone's ability, it's just a fact of how far a 19-45 team has to go in order to compete in the West. If we're happy staying a lottery team, McLaughlin is a fine starter or second-stringer. I'm sorry for wanting more success out of my favorite basketball team.

[Klomp]

Interesting look-back from a few years ago

Read on Twitter

[Jedzz]

I'd like to briefly give an example of what seems like reasonless differences in imagined ceilings for players each season, specifically unkown rookies.

Example:

Culver. Draft hype, team drafts him top 6. best player on college team so the team relied on him to move the ball and set players up often.
\__>Consensus second-team All-American (2019)
\__>Big 12 Player of the Year (2019)
\__>First-team All-Big 12 (2019)

Translation for many Wolves fans: This guy could be our savior at point guard, has great size, and instantly we start seeing his name listed as starting PG some time in rookie season by hundreds of posts and different fan posters. Sure enough, not only did he get 33 starts of 63 games played, but he was also thrust into a starting PG role by an NBA team that should have noticed by then he was not ready for all that entails.

Contrary example.

JMac: No Draft hype, undrafted, instant Gleague result 2018. No NBA games that year. Joins Wolves Gleague after a good summer showing in 2019.
\__>First-team All-Pac-12 (2018)

Translation for many Wolves fans: "worth a two-way signing" and Gleague career.
After what turned into significant minutes on the main team's roster for a Gleague player and some truly outstanding showings, some Wolves fans are thinking, possible third string PG.


After all that has played out, people are still limiting JMac in their minds to third string at best. What should that mean of their thoughts on Culver now given where beliefs initially laid and what occured. Shouldn't JMac's play on the court speak for itself already and have more believers in him even if they didn't see it before the season? By Now?

[Jedzz]

I am concerned that you threw in the "third string" guy comment that so many are maintaining in each post. Positive comment/third string comment seems to be equation for many posts. I so wish a few of you might start showing us what the difference is to starting or direct backup PGs from what this rookie already has shown that leaves you thinking 3rd string. Because without that from anyone yet and I'm getting the impression this is entirely based on his height/draft and an imaginary limit people are attributing to him. Is that unfair of me to state? Because if it's true then I'm not sure people are being honest with themselves on this player.

Here's the thing.....I don't think it has to do with any imaginary limits. It's about creating the best possible team depth top to bottom. McLaughlin did great in the time that he had...but how was the team's record?

Well I'm not sure your post says anything to confront the reality of imaginary limits imposed on JMac.

JMac progressed and went on to show a higher top end this spring than I think anyone was expecting. I think if they can hold on to him he solves one depth issue going forward without question in my mind.

The simple fact is that practically everyone on this team needs to be upgraded if this is going to be a title-contending team. It's not an insult on anyone's ability, it's just a fact of how far a 19-45 team has to go in order to compete in the West. If we're happy staying a lottery team, McLaughlin is a fine starter or second-stringer. I'm sorry for wanting more success out of my favorite basketball team.

I really think this is an incorrect paragraph any way I look at it! This teams record really has nothing to do with the roster of today.

IIf your singular focus is now making Booker happen here and flipping the entire roster to make that happen, that's another way to go. But if it is, you better hope JMac is stil around on the cheap playing PG2.

[UnFadeable21]

If we keep the Brooklyn pick. I wouldn’t mind Tre Jones. He’d be a solid back up PG who can defend and facilitate.

Jmac is ideal 3rd pg

[Jedzz]

If we keep the Brooklyn pick. I wouldn’t mind Tre Jones. He’d be a solid back up PG who can defend and facilitate.

Jmac is ideal 3rd pg

What is an ideal 2nd PG?

What is an ideal 1st PG?

One day someone will be able to say. Tre does have a reputation for defense I see. His 3pt shot was horrid his first season and then jumped all the way to 36% on slightly higher volume this past season. Looks like something he really worked on improving. I would have to see more improvement there however given this systems needs. Overall I see another person here annointing draft rookies to play before a proven player. To each his own.

[old school 34]

I'd like to see JMac back for sure, but definitely don't want us to bring him back & say...good, set, & nothing else @ PG done. I don't see the 3rd PG on this team being A. Brooks season with Thibs....with DLo & out wings being relatively limited currently....i envision a lot of 2 PG lineups...Napier was the 3rd PG with Nets that year with DLo & Dinwiddie, but was still a significant piece of the rotation. JMac doesn't need something handed to him...if he's to become the next FVV...even if he gets the 3rd PG...he'll earn his minutes.

The other thing that is part of the evaluation with him that I consider (but don't want to take anything away from where he's come from)...is the serious factor of the NBA players themselves? My son's an undersized pg soph in HS working up thru varsity program....been doing well in workouts to the point that finally senior pg guards him in pickup to put clamps down on him....good thing right & real prove yourself moment cause now they're taking you serious and that's the true evaluation of where you're at? Has JMac gotten there yet? Could anyone have gotten to that point last year that late in the year with where we were at? Again, not to take anything away....cause he did everything he could've hoped for with the minutes he earned....but fair to say...he might still have work to do to 100% establish what he's started.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

I'd like to see JMac back for sure, but definitely don't want us to bring him back & say...good, set, & nothing else @ PG done. I don't see the 3rd PG on this team being A. Brooks season with Thibs....with DLo & out wings being relatively limited currently....i envision a lot of 2 PG lineups...Napier was the 3rd PG with Nets that year with DLo & Dinwiddie, but was still a significant piece of the rotation. JMac doesn't need something handed to him...if he's to become the next FVV...even if he gets the 3rd PG...he'll earn his minutes.

The other thing that is part of the evaluation with him that I consider (but don't want to take anything away from where he's come from)...is the serious factor of the NBA players themselves? My son's an undersized pg soph in HS working up thru varsity program....been doing well in workouts to the point that finally senior pg guards him in pickup to put clamps down on him....good thing right & real prove yourself moment cause now they're taking you serious and that's the true evaluation of where you're at? Has JMac gotten there yet? Could anyone have gotten to that point last year that late in the year with where we were at? Again, not to take anything away....cause he did everything he could've hoped for with the minutes he earned....but fair to say...he might still have work to do to 100% establish what he's started.

I've thought about this too.....not just the undersized thing, but even being an undrafted two-way player too. Opponents defend with a little different sense of urgency depending on a player's reputation. It might not be right to do, but it does happen quite often. Even just looking at who a defense asks to guard a player can change based on that player's reputation.

I thought it was interesting at the deadline though, we traded away vets in front of both McLaughlin and Reid. I think they wanted to see how the young guys would respond, and they responded well. They did nothing that would cause them to lose their backup roles, that's for sure. If they lose the role, it's not because of anything they did or didn't do.

[shrink]

Danny LeRoux from Dunc’d On and RealGM Radio hopes we bring him back, so he can refer to our backcourt as the “McLaughlin Group.”

I was curious if anyone besides me was old and square enough to get this reference without looking it up?

Gooooooooood Bye!

[karch34]

Danny LeRoux from Dunc’d On and RealGM Radio hopes we bring him back, so he can refer to our backcourt as the “McLaughlin Group.”

I was curious if anyone besides me was old and square enough to get this reference without looking it up?

Gooooooooood Bye!

More the SNL sketch with Dana Carvey than the actual PBS show, but totally got it.

I like JMac and have been happy with Rosas working every angle to improve. Does he deserve a chance? Yes. Should that prevent us from looking at other options? No. If Brooklyn or 2nd round pick is a PG that's a great value and no brainer potential than do it and let pieces fall as they should. Same with any other position. Two unicorn centers make it work or use one to help make best possible roster.
Let's get talent and keep adjusting until its right mix.