[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[Nick K]

“ Woj's business plan leak, which had #1, a number (171 million dollar salary projection) and #2, 3 legit sources.

If there were multiple budgets like some of you wish for, where are the counter leaks of those from Lore/Arod?
The budgets where they are paying the luxury tax don't exist.”

You also keep calling it a “budget” (and “business plan”). False. That was NOT the report.

Obviously, Lore / ARod don’t want to play Glen’s unethical, dirty leak game. They shouldn’t have to follow Glen into the mud.

“ Even if the sale goes through, they are barely going to be over 50% with an equity firm coming up with half of the last 40%.”

That’s not uncommon. Warriors, I believe. Lacob is worth 1.8 billion and his other partner 800M with six other stakes, including a venture capitalist firm. Lux tax and four championships.

And here is an article that explains how owners don’t pay player salaries themselves (revenue does). Please read it!

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/9/19/22650143/its-your-money-breaking-down-myth-of-nba-ownership-and-who-really-foots-the-bill-boston-celtics

“At the end of the day, they’re running a profitable business—one that puts money in their pockets instead of taking it out of them. So the next time you hear someone talk about an owner or a team spending money on a player, remember it’s your money they’re spending.“

Wolves revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196731/revenue-of-the-minnesota-timberwolves-since-2006/

259M last year. 271M the year before last.

Warriors lux tax bill for most recent year was 176M.

Hmmmm… how to afford the lux with revenues greater than the lux? Gee. We’ll never know. So sad that Lore and ARod don’t have the money to pay it.

Maybe be open to all this factual/data-based context of how NBA teams are actually run and financed.

I believe Dane Moore is providing more of this context than Woj, for example. ESPN is not a great news source. They make mistakes and use spin all the time.

Great post. What more can you say? I'ts amazing to me how little people know about how business' are financed and how they are run. How people can believe a pro forma report to the league is locked in stone, is simply ignorance.

[KGdaBom]

Do we know for a fact that they only submitted this one?

Is it possible they submitted numerous plans all based on different variables? And maybe this was the only one that Glen leaked because it was most beneficial to him?

And maybe Lore is hundredy hundred trillionaire, with a golden goose that lays Faberge eggs! Do we know for a fact he isn’t?

We KNOW Lore and ARod submitted THIS budget. We know that Woj reported on it. There is no evidence of multiple budgets presented, and even if there was, don’t you think Lore and ARod (or any other owner) would leak that out?

Come on guys. Wishful thinking is one thing, but let’s not invent pretend scenarios with absolutely no evidence to make ourselves feel better. We’re supposed to be RealGM here, let’s at least deal in real.

I think it’s real that Lore and ARod don’t want to get into mud-slinging. I think they may have even said something to that affect (recognizing the irony).

This won’t play out in the media.

The media doesn’t matter.

Winning the media battle accomplishes nothing.

That’s realer than real deal Holyfield copyright snoop dog.

PS. If we want to observe media, what about other non-sale-critical factors like the team’s perception? I sat almost courtside in Target seats last night (ridiculous seats) and Ant sure likes to point and have fun with ARod and Lore before, during, and after games. And remember when Ant got 50 and he proudly displayed KG on his hand? But who cares? The court of public opinion is just theatre. These things don’t have value to arbitrators.

The playing this out in the media and mud-slinging started with A Rod and Lore telling the press that Glen didn't think Connelly would come here and saying how Glen didn't want us to trade for Gobert. Neither of those things could have happened without Glen approving them in the end. Good for A Rod and Lore coming up with the Connelly for GM idea, but without Glen it doesn't get done. A Rod and Lore shouldn't be taking credit for all of the Wolves success.

[KGdaBom]

“ Woj's business plan leak, which had #1, a number (171 million dollar salary projection) and #2, 3 legit sources.

If there were multiple budgets like some of you wish for, where are the counter leaks of those from Lore/Arod?
The budgets where they are paying the luxury tax don't exist.”

You also keep calling it a “budget” (and “business plan”). False. That was NOT the report.

Obviously, Lore / ARod don’t want to play Glen’s unethical, dirty leak game. They shouldn’t have to follow Glen into the mud.

“ Even if the sale goes through, they are barely going to be over 50% with an equity firm coming up with half of the last 40%.”

That’s not uncommon. Warriors, I believe. Lacob is worth 1.8 billion and his other partner 800M with six other stakes, including a venture capitalist firm. Lux tax and four championships.

And here is an article that explains how owners don’t pay player salaries themselves (revenue does). Please read it!

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/9/19/22650143/its-your-money-breaking-down-myth-of-nba-ownership-and-who-really-foots-the-bill-boston-celtics

“At the end of the day, they’re running a profitable business—one that puts money in their pockets instead of taking it out of them. So the next time you hear someone talk about an owner or a team spending money on a player, remember it’s your money they’re spending.“

Wolves revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196731/revenue-of-the-minnesota-timberwolves-since-2006/

259M last year. 271M the year before last.

Warriors lux tax bill for most recent year was 176M.

Hmmmm… how to afford the lux with revenues greater than the lux? Gee. We’ll never know. So sad that Lore and ARod don’t have the money to pay it.

Maybe be open to all this factual/data-based context of how NBA teams are actually run and financed.

I believe Dane Moore is providing more of this context than Woj, for example. ESPN is not a great news source. They make mistakes and use spin all the time.

Great post. What more can you say? I'ts amazing to me how little people know about how business' are financed and how they are run. How people can believe a pro forma report to the league is locked in stone, is simply ignorance.

NOBODY here believes that. So your ignorance accusation is just name calling and applies to NOBODY.

[Nick K]

And maybe Lore is hundredy hundred trillionaire, with a golden goose that lays Faberge eggs! Do we know for a fact he isn’t?

We KNOW Lore and ARod submitted THIS budget. We know that Woj reported on it. There is no evidence of multiple budgets presented, and even if there was, don’t you think Lore and ARod (or any other owner) would leak that out?

Come on guys. Wishful thinking is one thing, but let’s not invent pretend scenarios with absolutely no evidence to make ourselves feel better. We’re supposed to be RealGM here, let’s at least deal in real.

I think it’s real that Lore and ARod don’t want to get into mud-slinging. I think they may have even said something to that affect (recognizing the irony).

This won’t play out in the media.

The media doesn’t matter.

Winning the media battle accomplishes nothing.

That’s realer than real deal Holyfield copyright snoop dog.

PS. If we want to observe media, what about other non-sale-critical factors like the team’s perception? I sat almost courtside in Target seats last night (ridiculous seats) and Ant sure likes to point and have fun with ARod and Lore before, during, and after games. And remember when Ant got 50 and he proudly displayed KG on his hand? But who cares? The court of public opinion is just theatre. These things don’t have value to arbitrators.

The playing this out in the media and mud-slinging started with A Rod and Lore telling the press that Glen didn't think Connelly would come here and saying how Glen didn't want us to trade for Gobert. Neither of those things could have happened without Glen approving them in the end. Good for A Rod and Lore coming up with the Connelly for GM idea, but without Glen it doesn't get done. A Rod and Lore shouldn't be taking credit for all of the Wolves success.

I wouldn't consider those comments mudslinging. They were factual. And yes, It informs us of the different management styles of the two parties. I like the Lo/Rod vision.

Glen ultimately approved it because Glen had given Lo/Rod wide latitude to move the Wolves in their vision because they were buying the team after all. Glen Taylor wanted the 3 year transition period and Lo/Rod acquiesced in a spirit of cooperation. Glen just had a last minute change of heart and welshed on a good faith deal. It has nothing to do with Lo'Rod money or lack of it. As the NBA commish Silver said, it's all about the technicality in the contract regarding performance. The arbiter will decide and hopefully soon.

[shrink]

Wolves revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196731/revenue-of-the-minnesota-timberwolves-since-2006/

259M last year. 271M the year before last.

Warriors lux tax bill for most recent year was 176M.

Hmmmm… how to afford the lux with revenues greater than the lux? Gee. We’ll never know. So sad that Lore and ARod don’t have the money to pay it.

Maybe be open to all this factual/data-based context of how NBA teams are actually run and financed.

Great post. What more can you say? I'ts amazing to me how little people know about how business' are financed and how they are run.

Truly! It’s amazing people don’t know that the only expenses an NBA franchise has are player salaries and lux taxes! Businesses run in imaginary, uninsured, debt free buildings where all the workers are volunteers!

Thanks for that gem!

[shrink]

The playing this out in the media and mud-slinging started with A Rod and Lore telling the press that Glen didn't think Connelly would come here and saying how Glen didn't want us to trade for Gobert. Neither of those things could have happened without Glen approving them in the end. Good for A Rod and Lore coming up with the Connelly for GM idea, but without Glen it doesn't get done. A Rod and Lore shouldn't be taking credit for all of the Wolves success.

I wouldn't consider those comments mudslinging. They were factual.

For the record, mudslinging and factual are not mutually exclusive.

What I was referring to was statements like, “yeah, lots of people told us that we shouldn’t trust Glen.”

I am sure that with all the questions nationally about Lore’s lack of wealth, that started on Day One, plenty of people were warning Taylor as well, that they might not be able to pay. Both could be true, and both were unnecessary to say to the media.

Taylor did not say that when he announced that the Wolves were no longer for sale. ARod did. In fact, as far as I know, Taylor said nothing bad about Lore or ARod, even after they slung some mud.

[BlacJacMac]

Wolves revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196731/revenue-of-the-minnesota-timberwolves-since-2006/

259M last year. 271M the year before last.

Warriors lux tax bill for most recent year was 176M.

Hmmmm… how to afford the lux with revenues greater than the lux? Gee. We’ll never know. So sad that Lore and ARod don’t have the money to pay it.

Maybe be open to all this factual/data-based context of how NBA teams are actually run and financed.

Great post. What more can you say? I'ts amazing to me how little people know about how business' are financed and how they are run.

Truly! Amazing people don’t know that the only expenses an NBA franchise has are player salaries and lux taxes! Businesses run in imaginary, uninsured, debt free buildings where all the workers are volunteers!

Thanks for that gem!

The Timberwolves are projected to break even this year, and could make $5 million to $10 million if they go deep in the playoffs, a source familiar with its finances said.

Next season, payroll for the team that goes into Monday’s action with 51 wins and 23 losses goes up from $163 million to a guaranteed $185 million. That would also put the Timberwolves over the luxury tax resulting in a roughly $24 million penalty, a January report said.

Without trades, the Timberwolves could easily lose $40 million next season, the source said.

https://nypost.com/2024/04/01/sports/a-rods-lack-of-cash-a-red-flag-in-timberwolves-sale-saga-source/

[BlacJacMac]

On Lore having enough money to buy the Wolves outright if not for Glen's insistence on a 3-year deal. Maybe if he dumped Wonder he could get there, but that doesn't sound like something he'd be willing to do.

The New York Times this month published a feature on Lore and his plans to make Wonder a $30 billion market cap company.

Wonder, as The Post reported exclusively, offered deep discounts to investors who bought convertible shares in the round valuing the company at $3.5 billion — the same valuation Wonder fetched when it last raised money in June 2022.

Lore owns more than half of the company, and it represents much of his net worth.

Under terms of the new offer, investors who bought the securities now will be granted the option of converting them into stock at a 50 percent discount to the company’s valuation during its next fund-raising round making this a down round.

Lore, who founded Diapers.com and famously sold his grocery start-up Jet.com to Walmart in 2016 for $3.3 billion, told Fox Business last month he now spends 100 hours a week on Wonder.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/28/sports/marc-lore-depended-too-much-on-alex-rodriguez-for-timberwolves-sources/

[shrink]

The Timberwolves are projected to break even this year, and could make $5 million to $10 million if they go deep in the playoffs, a source familiar with its finances said.

Next season, payroll for the team that goes into Monday’s action with 51 wins and 23 losses goes up from $163 million to a guaranteed $185 million. That would also put the Timberwolves over the luxury tax resulting in a roughly $24 million penalty, a January report said.

Without trades, the Timberwolves could easily lose $40 million next season, the source said.

https://nypost.com/2024/04/01/sports/a-rods-lack-of-cash-a-red-flag-in-timberwolves-sale-saga-source/

Good post. Note that with this year’s sellouts and increased merchandising with the success of this team and Anthony Edwards, the cost of maintaining this team barely breaks into the black. It has been rumored for years that the Wolves franchise, whose revenues were $100 mil less than the NBA average last year, have been operating at a loss for many years. When a club ties ticket prices to their spot in the lottery, you know they aren’t doing well.

It’s been rumored frequently that Taylor (and his limited partners) has been pumping his own cash into the team for a long time to make up annual revenue shortfalls. However, don’t put a halo on Taylor. While he may have been losing money every year, he would expect to get his money back and more when he sold the franchise at a significant increase down the road.

[Nick K]

On Lore having enough money to buy the Wolves outright if not for Glen's insistence on a 3-year deal. Maybe if he dumped Wonder he could get there, but that doesn't sound like something he'd be willing to do.

The New York Times this month published a feature on Lore and his plans to make Wonder a $30 billion market cap company.

Wonder, as The Post reported exclusively, offered deep discounts to investors who bought convertible shares in the round valuing the company at $3.5 billion — the same valuation Wonder fetched when it last raised money in June 2022.

Lore owns more than half of the company, and it represents much of his net worth.

Under terms of the new offer, investors who bought the securities now will be granted the option of converting them into stock at a 50 percent discount to the company’s valuation during its next fund-raising round making this a down round.

Lore, who founded Diapers.com and famously sold his grocery start-up Jet.com to Walmart in 2016 for $3.3 billion, told Fox Business last month he now spends 100 hours a week on Wonder.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/28/sports/marc-lore-depended-too-much-on-alex-rodriguez-for-timberwolves-sources/

Why do you keep going back to the Lo/Rod money question? The league isn't concerned with it. Why should you be?

In fact Silver came right out and said that it was just a contractual dispute on performance which will be decided by an arbiter. When the NBA comes out and suggests Lo/Rod doesn't have enough money that's when I'll believe it.

[BlacJacMac]

Maybe that’s part of why there is a contractual dispute.

And it does matter - even if they scrape together enough to buy the team. Look at the other article I posted (about the Wolves likely losing significant money next year and beyond) and Shrink followed up on. I know you think Schmidt will just bail them out and cut 50-100M checks every year, but not all of us believe that.

Taylor is the Devil, Lore walks on water…Whatever.

[BlacJacMac]

And this is not to say Taylor is in the right here either. But it may be coming down to the Devil we know vs the Devil we don't.

At this point I don't know which guy I want to win...

[shrink]

Why do you keep going back to the Lo/Rod money question? The league isn't concerned with it. Why should you be?

In fact Silver came right out and said that it was just a contractual dispute on performance which will be decided by an arbiter. When the NBA comes out and suggests Lo/Rod doesn't have enough money that's when I'll believe it.

Well, we don’t know the league isn’t concerned, but we do know they have enough concern to meet and have Lo/Rod present their projection, right? Even if it’s SOP, it’s hard to imagine that they don’t have a horse in this race. They need owners that invest in their teams, to float all their boats.

One thing I wanted to mention is what a weird position Silver is in. As NBA Commissioner, he has 30 bosses, and a current boss is squabbling with a potential future boss. He works at their pleasure, and they could fire him if they choose so he has to walk a fine line. I am sure he and the other owners are hoping that the arbiter takes this off his plate, and they don’t have to weigh in one side or the other. I have not heard in the contract what happens if one side disagrees with the arbiter, if that leads to legal action or if the arbiter’s decision is final. It sounds like the former - a legal battle where we all suffer.

Btw, I agree with the poster (it may have been you), that an arbiter might just split the baby down the middle. Have Lore and ARod pay more, but not full price, and they get the sale through. However at this point, with the egos involved, I don’t think Lore and ARod would accept it, even if it would be good for the team and fans to have this over.

[thinktank]

Do we know for a fact that they only submitted this one?

Is it possible they submitted numerous plans all based on different variables? And maybe this was the only one that Glen leaked because it was most beneficial to him?

And maybe Lore is hundredy hundred trillionaire, with a golden goose that lays Faberge eggs! Do we know for a fact he isn’t?

We KNOW Lore and ARod submitted THIS budget. We know that Woj reported on it. There is no evidence of multiple budgets presented, and even if there was, don’t you think Lore and ARod (or any of the 28 other owners) would leak that out?

Come on guys. Wishful thinking is one thing, but let’s not invent pretend scenarios with absolutely no evidence to make ourselves feel better. We’re supposed to be RealGM here, let’s at least deal in real.

Because ThinkTank is smart he has the imagination to see what isn't there.

Yeah, like a “budget”.

It’s amazing anyone would bother to own an NBA team with all the money they lose every year. Never being able to sell the team for billions more than what you paid. I’m sure that’s tough to use as financing collateral. Oh, those poor owners.

[Klomp]

The playing this out in the media and mud-slinging started with A Rod and Lore telling the press that Glen didn't think Connelly would come here and saying how Glen didn't want us to trade for Gobert. Neither of those things could have happened without Glen approving them in the end. Good for A Rod and Lore coming up with the Connelly for GM idea, but without Glen it doesn't get done. A Rod and Lore shouldn't be taking credit for all of the Wolves success.

WRONG.

“They wanted that private room for themselves down there,” Taylor told The Athletic. “I didn’t think that was a very good idea. But I OK’d it and paid for it and stuff like this. So I bent the corners a little bit and stuff like this here. But, I mean, that was more of their priority that they had that room than, ‘Who are we trading for?’”

"Lore told me he has been busy 24/7 with other projects. And ARod — he has a lot of people to meet when he's at a game."

Just two examples from his media tour the day the press release came out. All of the stuff from Alex and Marc didn't come until the next day.

[Klomp]

Taylor did not say that when he announced that the Wolves were no longer for sale. ARod did. In fact, as far as I know, Taylor said nothing bad about Lore or ARod, even after they slung some mud.

See my post above, in case you miss it.

[Nick K]

On Lore having enough money to buy the Wolves outright if not for Glen's insistence on a 3-year deal. Maybe if he dumped Wonder he could get there, but that doesn't sound like something he'd be willing to do.

The New York Times this month published a feature on Lore and his plans to make Wonder a $30 billion market cap company.

Wonder, as The Post reported exclusively, offered deep discounts to investors who bought convertible shares in the round valuing the company at $3.5 billion — the same valuation Wonder fetched when it last raised money in June 2022.

Lore owns more than half of the company, and it represents much of his net worth.

Under terms of the new offer, investors who bought the securities now will be granted the option of converting them into stock at a 50 percent discount to the company’s valuation during its next fund-raising round making this a down round.

Lore, who founded Diapers.com and famously sold his grocery start-up Jet.com to Walmart in 2016 for $3.3 billion, told Fox Business last month he now spends 100 hours a week on Wonder.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/28/sports/marc-lore-depended-too-much-on-alex-rodriguez-for-timberwolves-sources/

Come on man, you don't have any idea of Lore's financial balance sheet. Yet you pretend you do because you read an article in the paper? Those numbers posted in the NY Post are financially incomplete. They only give a glimpse into his finances. You are making assumptions based upon substantially incomplete information.

Anyway, it's moot here because the ONLY issue is the contract language which the arbiter will decide if the sale will or will not go through.

[Nick K]

Why do you keep going back to the Lo/Rod money question? The league isn't concerned with it. Why should you be?

In fact Silver came right out and said that it was just a contractual dispute on performance which will be decided by an arbiter. When the NBA comes out and suggests Lo/Rod doesn't have enough money that's when I'll believe it.

Well, we don’t know the league isn’t concerned, but we do know they have enough concern to meet and have Lo/Rod present their projection, right? Even if it’s SOP, it’s hard to imagine that they don’t have a horse in this race. They need owners that invest in their teams, to float all their boats.

One thing I wanted to mention is what a weird position Silver is in. As NBA Commissioner, he has 30 bosses, and a current boss is squabbling with a potential future boss. He works at their pleasure, and they could fire him if they choose so he has to walk a fine line. I am sure he and the other owners are hoping that the arbiter takes this off his plate, and they don’t have to weigh in one side or the other. I have not heard in the contract what happens if one side disagrees with the arbiter, if that leads to legal action or if the arbiter’s decision is final. It sounds like the former - a legal battle where we all suffer.

Btw, I agree with the poster (it may have been you), that an arbiter might just split the baby down the middle. Have Lore and ARod pay more, but not full price, and they get the sale through. However at this point, with the egos involved, I don’t think Lore and ARod would accept it, even if it would be good for the team and fans to have this over.

You might be right on that. If Lo/Rod wins the arbitration my guess is they try to find a way to buy Glen out completely. I don't know if they can though if Glen doesn't want to sell..

[shrink]

Deleted

[BlacJacMac]

On Lore having enough money to buy the Wolves outright if not for Glen's insistence on a 3-year deal. Maybe if he dumped Wonder he could get there, but that doesn't sound like something he'd be willing to do.

The New York Times this month published a feature on Lore and his plans to make Wonder a $30 billion market cap company.

Wonder, as The Post reported exclusively, offered deep discounts to investors who bought convertible shares in the round valuing the company at $3.5 billion — the same valuation Wonder fetched when it last raised money in June 2022.

Lore owns more than half of the company, and it represents much of his net worth.

Under terms of the new offer, investors who bought the securities now will be granted the option of converting them into stock at a 50 percent discount to the company’s valuation during its next fund-raising round making this a down round.

Lore, who founded Diapers.com and famously sold his grocery start-up Jet.com to Walmart in 2016 for $3.3 billion, told Fox Business last month he now spends 100 hours a week on Wonder.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/28/sports/marc-lore-depended-too-much-on-alex-rodriguez-for-timberwolves-sources/

Come on man, you don't have any idea of Lore's financial balance sheet. Yet you pretend you do because you read an article in the paper? Those numbers posted in the NY Post are financially incomplete. They only give a glimpse into his finances. You are making assumptions based upon substantially incomplete information.

Anyway, it's moot here because the ONLY issue is the contract language which the arbiter will decide if the sale will or will not go through.

That's exactly what you've been doing for pages and pages.