Don't speed it up: Wolves sign Slo-Mo Kyle Anderson (2yr/$18M)

[winforlose]

Paraphrasing Dane’s deep dive of Kyle Anderson’s offense. “Other than Shake Milton no Timberwolf is worse for scoring than Kyle. They are 6.1 points worse when Kyle is on the floor vs off the floor per 100 possessions.” This is not to suggest he has no value. This is just the statistical side of the conversation from yesterday’s game thread.

And yet...Finch had him on the floor in the critical closing moments of last night's game.

I didn’t realize last night, but Naz had fouled out and KAT was hurt. TBJ isn’t big enough. Kyle being out there wasn’t as meaningful as you might think. Despite it being Kyle’s best game of the season in terms of overall production. I am not trying to deny the man his flowers. He had some nice makes and even better defensive plays.

[younggunsmn]

The good version of Kyle Anderson is better than anything we can trade him for, I'm still hoping we've seen the worst of him this year and he will figure it out on offense. They eye injury is a bigger deal than anyone thought at the time, shooting is completely gone.

He's better at the 4, and if one of KAT, Rudy or Naz go down we are going to really really need him there.

Tyus is a nice thought, but he's not a starting PG and we can't afford both him and Mike next year, if we can even afford one of them.
I also don't know if he can play defense the way we need him to so there is no dropoff.
In a perfect world Mike and Tyus would be a great 1-2 punch, the cost is probably too high though, both with salary and Washington probably wants at least one first round pick back.

[winforlose]

The good version of Kyle Anderson is better than anything we can trade him for, I'm still hoping we've seen the worst of him this year and he will figure it out on offense. They eye injury is a bigger deal than anyone thought at the time, shooting is completely gone.

He's better at the 4, and if one of KAT, Rudy or Naz go down we are going to really really need him there.

Tyus is a nice thought, but he's not a starting PG and we can't afford both him and Mike next year, if we can even afford one of them.
I also don't know if he can play defense the way we need him to so there is no dropoff.
In a perfect world Mike and Tyus would be a great 1-2 punch, the cost is probably too high though, both with salary and Washington probably wants at least one first round pick back.

I hear you, but I don’t think you thought this all the way through. You saw how they loaded up on Ant tonight, they can do that because we use Kyle. It is even worse when Kyle shares the floor with Rudy. When Kyle plays the 4 Ant plays the one (assuming no Mike,) and he proved tonight that he is not ready. We had a 22 point lead begin to evaporate as soon as Mike sat down. We bring Mike back he stems the bleeding. He sits for a few minutes, boom they take off again. We simply cannot afford to not have someone behind Mike.

As for paying Tyus and Mike, as long as we have Rudy we are a super tax team! Next year we won’t have the resources to trade for another PG and even if Mike stays here and stays healthy 24-25 is probably the end of Mike in Minnesota (at least as a starting level PG.) We will have no choice but to trade one of our core to replace him unless we trade for a PG this year and pay them to stay. Before the Thursday game the pre game show said this is the most profitable year in franchise history. They cannot stock the merch (flying off the shelves,) selling out every game at higher than normal ticket prices, ect… We finish top in the west we get a bigger slice of the national tv money, not to mention hosting home playoff games in multiple series. Point being, we can find the money.

Tyus is going off in Washington. He can start or backup Conley this year and start next year (my preference.) You have to believe he wants to be here competing for a ring. You also have to believe endorsement deals and commercials will more than make up any pay cut he takes to be here. As for replacing Kyle at the PF, next year you got Miller, this year sign a buyout guy. Roco is likely available or Marcus smart, or someone else will be there. Trade Moore into cap space to make the money work. When healthy we only need 3 bigs in the rotation, if one goes down we can always convert Garza or use the buyout guy.


TLDR: We need Mike insurance far more than we need Kyle. We also need to plan for the rest of the Rudy window and post Mike years.

[younggunsmn]

It doesn't matter how much revenue we are bringing in, our current level of luxury tax is going to cost us 3-4 times the player's salary in tax for anyone we add or bring back beyond the players who already have guaranteed contracts for next year. More if Ant makes All-NBA.

The only way trading for Tyus makes sense is if we don't think Mike will be back, and MIke is Priority ONE this summer.
Plan B if he leaves/retires could be a NAZ/Tyus sign and trade which would be salary neutral and save us about 50 million dollars over just signing someone, as much as I'd hate to lose NAZ.
But I don't think Tyus is a starting caliber PG. Be wary of guys going off on bad teams.

Miller is not ready to play at the level we need him to this year, having Kyle is essential.
Even with as bad as he has been, FInch leans on him as his security blanket.

And FInch has supreme confidence in NAW, his defense is so important that FInch would rather go without a traditional PG on the 2nd unit than put a subpar defender out there. The balance on that unit isn't very good, but it would likely look worse without Kyle out there. Every team we play from here on out is going to load up on Ant regardless of who we put out there, it's on him to make the right decisions with the ball. I think we forget how limited Tyus is as a scorer, he's a great spot up shooter but he doesn't have an elite first step or get to the rim.

[winforlose]

It doesn't matter how much revenue we are bringing in, our current level of luxury tax is going to cost us 3-4 times the player's salary in tax for anyone we add or bring back beyond the players who already have guaranteed contracts for next year. More if Ant makes All-NBA.

The only way trading for Tyus makes sense is if we don't think Mike will be back, and MIke is Priority ONE this summer.
Plan B if he leaves/retires could be a NAZ/Tyus sign and trade which would be salary neutral and save us about 50 million dollars over just signing someone, as much as I'd hate to lose NAZ.
But I don't think Tyus is a starting caliber PG. Be wary of guys going off on bad teams.

Miller is not ready to play at the level we need him to this year, having Kyle is essential.
Even with as bad as he has been, FInch leans on him as his security blanket.

And FInch has supreme confidence in NAW, his defense is so important that FInch would rather go without a traditional PG on the 2nd unit than put a subpar defender out there. The balance on that unit isn't very good, but it would likely look worse without Kyle out there. Every team we play from here on out is going to load up on Ant regardless of who we put out there, it's on him to make the right decisions with the ball. I think we forget how limited Tyus is as a scorer, he's a great spot up shooter but he doesn't have an elite first step or get to the rim.

1. We are not in the repeater tax, so the tax penalty should be between 20-70 million. Variables include how much the cap grows (how high is the tax and 2nd apron lines,) how far we actually go over the tax line, and Ant’s all NBA. My understanding is that it scales, first 5, next 5 ect…

2. We can and MUST sign both Mike and Mike’s future replacement. Mike will be 37 and I don’t know that he will be able to play at 38, at least not at the level we need. But, I don’t think we can pay Mike 20+ million. He needs to take a haircut, and the better we do in the playoffs the more likely he will. As for Tyus, if we trade for him we get his bird rights. 12-13 will hurt but it is doable, especially if Mike comes down to around 10. The final numbers matter here, and I don’t know what guys will accept.

3. Miller is next years replacement for Kyle. This year we need a buyout guy. I already suggested maybe Roco. In any case, a 3 man rotation with Rudy, KAT, and Naz works when people are healthy. If we lose a big maybe we convert Garza, or use the buyout guy who we sign to replace Kyle. I honestly believe Finch understands that as nice as it is to have Kyle, he is unplayable in the playoffs. He is like having a cheaper, more dependable Ben Simmons. In that theory that sounds fine, but you would never pair Ben Simmons with a non shooter because of the effect it has on spacing.

4. You underestimate Tyus. That dude had come a long way. He is hooping out of his mind right now. His defense is not as bad as you fear it is, and he is no smaller than Mike. He is the best we can afford when you have Ant, Jaden, Karl, and Rudy beside him, and we must not break up this core before Rudy’s contract ends.

5. Without a traditional PG the ball gets sticky and we lose. Just that simple. Playoff series will be lost if we stand firm. The gap is too great and NAW, Ant, and Kyle cannot bridge it. This is the fatal flaw, Shake was meant to fix it, he failed, and we cannot ignore it.

[Zonarosa]

[firedavidkahn]

It doesn't matter how much revenue we are bringing in, our current level of luxury tax is going to cost us 3-4 times the player's salary in tax for anyone we add or bring back beyond the players who already have guaranteed contracts for next year. More if Ant makes All-NBA.

The only way trading for Tyus makes sense is if we don't think Mike will be back, and MIke is Priority ONE this summer.
Plan B if he leaves/retires could be a NAZ/Tyus sign and trade which would be salary neutral and save us about 50 million dollars over just signing someone, as much as I'd hate to lose NAZ.
But I don't think Tyus is a starting caliber PG. Be wary of guys going off on bad teams.

Miller is not ready to play at the level we need him to this year, having Kyle is essential.
Even with as bad as he has been, FInch leans on him as his security blanket.

And FInch has supreme confidence in NAW, his defense is so important that FInch would rather go without a traditional PG on the 2nd unit than put a subpar defender out there. The balance on that unit isn't very good, but it would likely look worse without Kyle out there. Every team we play from here on out is going to load up on Ant regardless of who we put out there, it's on him to make the right decisions with the ball. I think we forget how limited Tyus is as a scorer, he's a great spot up shooter but he doesn't have an elite first step or get to the rim.

1. We are not in the repeater tax, so the tax penalty should be between 20-70 million. Variables include how much the cap grows (how high is the tax and 2nd apron lines,) how far we actually go over the tax line, and Ant’s all NBA. My understanding is that it scales, first 5, next 5 ect…

2. We can and MUST sign both Mike and Mike’s future replacement. Mike will be 37 and I don’t know that he will be able to play at 38, at least not at the level we need. But, I don’t think we can pay Mike 20+ million. He needs to take a haircut, and the better we do in the playoffs the more likely he will. As for Tyus, if we trade for him we get his bird rights. 12-13 will hurt but it is doable, especially if Mike comes down to around 10. The final numbers matter here, and I don’t know what guys will accept.

3. Miller is next years replacement for Kyle. This year we need a buyout guy. I already suggested maybe Roco. In any case, a 3 man rotation with Rudy, KAT, and Naz works when people are healthy. If we lose a big maybe we convert Garza, or use the buyout guy who we sign to replace Kyle. I honestly believe Finch understands that as nice as it is to have Kyle, he is unplayable in the playoffs. He is like having a cheaper, more dependable Ben Simmons. In that theory that sounds fine, but you would never pair Ben Simmons with a non shooter because of the effect it has on spacing.

4. You underestimate Tyus. That dude had come a long way. He is hooping out of his mind right now. His defense is not as bad as you fear it is, and he is no smaller than Mike. He is the best we can afford when you have Ant, Jaden, Karl, and Rudy beside him, and we must not break up this core before Rudy’s contract ends.

5. Without a traditional PG the ball gets sticky and we lose. Just that simple. Playoff series will be lost if we stand firm. The gap is too great and NAW, Ant, and Kyle cannot bridge it. This is the fatal flaw, Shake was meant to fix it, he failed, and we cannot ignore it.

Tyus is a picture perfect replacement for Conley (realistic targets only). I hope he takes a discount to play here on a great team for a few years but idk if he will. Very high IQ player who will always make the right pass, takes care of the ball and can knock down open 3's. He's not as good as Conley...But you can't do much better with the money we got available.

[winforlose]

It doesn't matter how much revenue we are bringing in, our current level of luxury tax is going to cost us 3-4 times the player's salary in tax for anyone we add or bring back beyond the players who already have guaranteed contracts for next year. More if Ant makes All-NBA.

The only way trading for Tyus makes sense is if we don't think Mike will be back, and MIke is Priority ONE this summer.
Plan B if he leaves/retires could be a NAZ/Tyus sign and trade which would be salary neutral and save us about 50 million dollars over just signing someone, as much as I'd hate to lose NAZ.
But I don't think Tyus is a starting caliber PG. Be wary of guys going off on bad teams.

Miller is not ready to play at the level we need him to this year, having Kyle is essential.
Even with as bad as he has been, FInch leans on him as his security blanket.

And FInch has supreme confidence in NAW, his defense is so important that FInch would rather go without a traditional PG on the 2nd unit than put a subpar defender out there. The balance on that unit isn't very good, but it would likely look worse without Kyle out there. Every team we play from here on out is going to load up on Ant regardless of who we put out there, it's on him to make the right decisions with the ball. I think we forget how limited Tyus is as a scorer, he's a great spot up shooter but he doesn't have an elite first step or get to the rim.

1. We are not in the repeater tax, so the tax penalty should be between 20-70 million. Variables include how much the cap grows (how high is the tax and 2nd apron lines,) how far we actually go over the tax line, and Ant’s all NBA. My understanding is that it scales, first 5, next 5 ect…

2. We can and MUST sign both Mike and Mike’s future replacement. Mike will be 37 and I don’t know that he will be able to play at 38, at least not at the level we need. But, I don’t think we can pay Mike 20+ million. He needs to take a haircut, and the better we do in the playoffs the more likely he will. As for Tyus, if we trade for him we get his bird rights. 12-13 will hurt but it is doable, especially if Mike comes down to around 10. The final numbers matter here, and I don’t know what guys will accept.

3. Miller is next years replacement for Kyle. This year we need a buyout guy. I already suggested maybe Roco. In any case, a 3 man rotation with Rudy, KAT, and Naz works when people are healthy. If we lose a big maybe we convert Garza, or use the buyout guy who we sign to replace Kyle. I honestly believe Finch understands that as nice as it is to have Kyle, he is unplayable in the playoffs. He is like having a cheaper, more dependable Ben Simmons. In that theory that sounds fine, but you would never pair Ben Simmons with a non shooter because of the effect it has on spacing.

4. You underestimate Tyus. That dude had come a long way. He is hooping out of his mind right now. His defense is not as bad as you fear it is, and he is no smaller than Mike. He is the best we can afford when you have Ant, Jaden, Karl, and Rudy beside him, and we must not break up this core before Rudy’s contract ends.

5. Without a traditional PG the ball gets sticky and we lose. Just that simple. Playoff series will be lost if we stand firm. The gap is too great and NAW, Ant, and Kyle cannot bridge it. This is the fatal flaw, Shake was meant to fix it, he failed, and we cannot ignore it.

Tyus is a picture perfect replacement for Conley (realistic targets only). I hope he takes a discount to play here on a great team for a few years but idk if he will. Very high IQ player who will always make the right pass, takes care of the ball and can knock down open 3's. He's not as good as Conley...But you can't do much better with the money we got available.

Curry does Subway commercials and I got to believe makes millions. If he was the best player on a bad team does he get national ads? Not a chance. Ant gets local ads for Aura and makes supplemental income. Is it anywhere near Subway money, of course not. But it is extra money above the cap. Tyus going from the starting PG of a bad team or the backup PG of a good one (Grizzlies,) to the starting PG of the 24-25 Wolves after the 23-24 Wolves won a ring with him playing 20-25 minutes a game in the playoffs is going to get supplemental income. He also gets to live closer to his extended family, bring glory to his home state, live out his childhood dreams, and play next to guys like Ant and Jaden who are gonna make history. We have the makings of a dynasty, and he can get in on it. If this thing works this year, people will want to be here next year. If we keep it going for a while, when Rudy is done we will find replacements. Not to mention the ones we develop. Tyus has a lot of reasons for wanting to be here, the question is how much will he demand in actual NBA cap space.

[firedavidkahn]

1. We are not in the repeater tax, so the tax penalty should be between 20-70 million. Variables include how much the cap grows (how high is the tax and 2nd apron lines,) how far we actually go over the tax line, and Ant’s all NBA. My understanding is that it scales, first 5, next 5 ect…

2. We can and MUST sign both Mike and Mike’s future replacement. Mike will be 37 and I don’t know that he will be able to play at 38, at least not at the level we need. But, I don’t think we can pay Mike 20+ million. He needs to take a haircut, and the better we do in the playoffs the more likely he will. As for Tyus, if we trade for him we get his bird rights. 12-13 will hurt but it is doable, especially if Mike comes down to around 10. The final numbers matter here, and I don’t know what guys will accept.

3. Miller is next years replacement for Kyle. This year we need a buyout guy. I already suggested maybe Roco. In any case, a 3 man rotation with Rudy, KAT, and Naz works when people are healthy. If we lose a big maybe we convert Garza, or use the buyout guy who we sign to replace Kyle. I honestly believe Finch understands that as nice as it is to have Kyle, he is unplayable in the playoffs. He is like having a cheaper, more dependable Ben Simmons. In that theory that sounds fine, but you would never pair Ben Simmons with a non shooter because of the effect it has on spacing.

4. You underestimate Tyus. That dude had come a long way. He is hooping out of his mind right now. His defense is not as bad as you fear it is, and he is no smaller than Mike. He is the best we can afford when you have Ant, Jaden, Karl, and Rudy beside him, and we must not break up this core before Rudy’s contract ends.

5. Without a traditional PG the ball gets sticky and we lose. Just that simple. Playoff series will be lost if we stand firm. The gap is too great and NAW, Ant, and Kyle cannot bridge it. This is the fatal flaw, Shake was meant to fix it, he failed, and we cannot ignore it.

Tyus is a picture perfect replacement for Conley (realistic targets only). I hope he takes a discount to play here on a great team for a few years but idk if he will. Very high IQ player who will always make the right pass, takes care of the ball and can knock down open 3's. He's not as good as Conley...But you can't do much better with the money we got available.

Curry does Subway commercials and I got to believe makes millions. If he was the best player on a bad team does he get national ads? Not a chance. Ant gets local ads for Aura and makes supplemental income. Is it anywhere near Subway money, of course not. But it is extra money above the cap. Tyus going from the starting PG of a bad team or the backup PG of a good one (Grizzlies,) to the starting PG of the 24-25 Wolves after the 23-24 Wolves won a ring with him playing 20-25 minutes a game in the playoffs is going to get supplemental income. He also gets to live closer to his extended family, bring glory to his home state, live out his childhood dreams, and play next to guys like Ant and Jaden who are gonna make history. We have the makings of a dynasty, and he can get in on it. If this thing works this year, people will want to be here next year. If we keep it going for a while, when Rudy is done we will find replacements. Not to mention the ones we develop. Tyus has a lot of reasons for wanting to be here, the question is how much will he demand in actual NBA cap space.

Ya I'm going to paly devils advocate here and think most of that means nothing. We, as fans, always want to believe stuff like that is important...and it is to your average Joe. But if tens of millions of dollars are on the line? That would probably be 90% of the deciding factor.

I have no idea what kind of contract Tyus will even be able to get but don't we only have the MLE?

[winforlose]

Tyus is a picture perfect replacement for Conley (realistic targets only). I hope he takes a discount to play here on a great team for a few years but idk if he will. Very high IQ player who will always make the right pass, takes care of the ball and can knock down open 3's. He's not as good as Conley...But you can't do much better with the money we got available.

Curry does Subway commercials and I got to believe makes millions. If he was the best player on a bad team does he get national ads? Not a chance. Ant gets local ads for Aura and makes supplemental income. Is it anywhere near Subway money, of course not. But it is extra money above the cap. Tyus going from the starting PG of a bad team or the backup PG of a good one (Grizzlies,) to the starting PG of the 24-25 Wolves after the 23-24 Wolves won a ring with him playing 20-25 minutes a game in the playoffs is going to get supplemental income. He also gets to live closer to his extended family, bring glory to his home state, live out his childhood dreams, and play next to guys like Ant and Jaden who are gonna make history. We have the makings of a dynasty, and he can get in on it. If this thing works this year, people will want to be here next year. If we keep it going for a while, when Rudy is done we will find replacements. Not to mention the ones we develop. Tyus has a lot of reasons for wanting to be here, the question is how much will he demand in actual NBA cap space.

Ya I'm going to paly devils advocate here and think most of that means nothing. We, as fans, always want to believe stuff like that is important...and it is to your average Joe. But if tens of millions of dollars are on the line? That would probably be 90% of the deciding factor.

I have no idea what kind of contract Tyus will even be able to get but don't we only have the MLE?

We are not talking about the same thing. I am talking about trading Kyle and Shake for Tyus. That is why this is in the slo-mo thread, though it should be in the trade thread. If you respond do you mind doing it there. In any event, with that deal we get his bird rights. With those rights we can pay him what we want. So let’s say we pay Mike 10 and Tyus 12. Well that is gonna cost a bloody fortune. But how much would Kyle cost to resign. We cannot let him walk for nothing, we would be out of salary slots and out of moves. Maybe 6 or 7 if Kyle took a paycut. So now instead of having a legit replacement for Mike we have a Kyle who still cannot space the floor.

The real conversation is why would Tyus who can make 20 million on team X settle for 12 million on the Wolves, the answer is he might get another 2-6 in ads and be competing for rings. The more rings he wins the more ads he gets later and now he makes more money not on the cap sheet. It is a gamble, but a smart one. Why, because Mike is going to retire in 2 or 3 years, and need to slow down his minutes and games in 1 or 2 years. Tyus joins as a backup this year but transitions to starter next year. Mike gets to keep competing for rings and plays minutes more reasonable for his age. We pay a tax bill but make more money as a franchise. Win/win/win.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I will run this year with Slomo as PG when Mike sit. It's not the perfect option but he got a good passing ability. The point for me is that you need to put around player who can create space and able to shoot. When Slomo and Rudy play together, you absolutly need ANT or KAT + Naw or JAden. IF not we play as we see many games with no shooter. I think coach can find a way to make it works.
As i say not the best option but with our financial limitation.

[Guest84]

https://youtu.be/t0wrh6rw1d0?si=WrNrkBF7_DSfCjNc

[minimus]

With Anderson questionable for Game 2, I have just realised that he has been for us what Ben Simmons was supposed to be: big ballhanlder with versatile defense without jumpshot

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

With Anderson questionable for Game 2, I have just realised that he has been for us what Ben Simmons was supposed to be: big ballhanlder with versatile defense without jumpshot

Read on Twitter

I made that comparison earlier this season. Let’s just say the board did not like it.

[Note30]

With Anderson questionable for Game 2, I have just realised that he has been for us what Ben Simmons was supposed to be: big ballhanlder with versatile defense without jumpshot

Read on Twitter

I made that comparison earlier this season. Let’s just say the board did not like it.

Difference is Anderson has actually played this year.