ImageImageImage

The Official Chris Finch Thread

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

winforlose
General Manager
Posts: 8,663
And1: 3,526
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#281 » by winforlose » Mon Jan 29, 2024 10:36 pm

frankenwolf wrote:
winforlose wrote:
guest81 wrote:
Yea newsflash, every team who has ever played in nba history has had games where they should of won but didn't. They aren't a perfect team for sure, but no team is. Their best player is 22, of course there's going to be mistakes


You’re missing the point. When you are head and shoulders better than anyone else (like we are,) the standard is higher. We keep melting down in the fourth. This is something that needs to improve and is not. Lack of improvement is a sign of poor coaching. Twice this week we lost while blowing double digits leads in the fourth. Likewise, we almost lost the Nets game in the same way. At what point do you want Finch to actually do something about it?


To address the bold part of your comment, what can Finch do? It has been pointed out that our losses recently have been with out, or with a minimum performance from, Minnesota Mike. The lineup he put out there to start the 4th qtr of the Spurs game was indeed questionable, but he quite possibly is showing TC that we need another MC, someone who will see the game for what it is and stop the bleeding. Also, but I since I am not in the coach's inner circle, maybe he's drilling some lessons into these guys who think they can just cruise along.

IDK, I am upset that the Wolves have not done as well as I thought they would recently, but Finch is not 100% responsible for the construction of this team. If you had told me that Shake would be as bad as he has been, I would not have not agreed with you at all, yet here we are.


Finch solutions:

1. Bench Ant when he plays too much hero ball.
2. Call more plays, and have NAW or JMAC run the offense.
3. Run more of Naz, Karl, and Rudy together, especially when the offense is dead and the defense is leaking like a sieve.
4. Maybe come out and say I take responsibility for my poor rotations to start the 2nd and 4th quarters. If I am going to put my players on blast, I need to acknowledge my own failures when they happen.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,373
And1: 14,833
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#282 » by shrink » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:36 pm

Didn’t last night’s win make Chris Finch the NBA All Star Coach for the West?

They announce the reserves tonight, and I think they announce the coach at the same time, right? Or am I missing something, because I haven’t seen any news on it.
winforlose
General Manager
Posts: 8,663
And1: 3,526
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#283 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:41 pm

shrink wrote:Didn’t last night’s win make Chris Finch the NBA All Star Coach for the West?

They announce the reserves tonight, and I think they announce the coach at the same time, right? Or am I missing something, because I haven’t seen any news on it.


They said 3 games last night was 1. If we beat the Magic and Rockets it’s 100%. If we lose 1 but the Thunder lose 1 then I think we still get it. If we lose 2 then we don’t
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,373
And1: 14,833
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#284 » by shrink » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:50 pm

winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:Didn’t last night’s win make Chris Finch the NBA All Star Coach for the West?

They announce the reserves tonight, and I think they announce the coach at the same time, right? Or am I missing something, because I haven’t seen any news on it.


They said 3 games last night was 1. If we beat the Magic and Rockets it’s 100%. If we lose 1 but the Thunder lose 1 then I think we still get it. If we lose 2 then we don’t

Thanks w4l!
winforlose
General Manager
Posts: 8,663
And1: 3,526
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#285 » by winforlose » Thu Feb 1, 2024 9:58 pm

shrink wrote:
winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:Didn’t last night’s win make Chris Finch the NBA All Star Coach for the West?

They announce the reserves tonight, and I think they announce the coach at the same time, right? Or am I missing something, because I haven’t seen any news on it.


They said 3 games last night was 1. If we beat the Magic and Rockets it’s 100%. If we lose 1 but the Thunder lose 1 then I think we still get it. If we lose 2 then we don’t

Thanks w4l!


Just checked hoopshype and saw this.

“ Tim MacMahon: Anthony Edwards on the All-Star reserve selections: “I can give two f—s, but I want Rudy [Gobert] to make it for sure.” He makes case that Timberwolves deserve at least two All-Stars as the West’s No. 1 team. Wolves are a win away from coach Chris Finch claiming All-Star bid. 48 mins ago – via Twitter espn_macmahon
All-Star, Chris Finch, Anthony Edwards, Rudy Gobert, Minnesota Timberwolves”
winforlose
General Manager
Posts: 8,663
And1: 3,526
Joined: Feb 27, 2020

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#286 » by winforlose » Wed Feb 7, 2024 7:36 am

I am so torn about Finchy. On the one hand the players love him. He has overseen the defensive transformation of Karl from useless to high wall to PF. Finchy has been Ant’s only real coach (replacing Ryan half way through the rookie year,) and Finchy seems to know about basketball. His BBIQ is definitely high enough to coach this team. But, he cannot get the players to listen. He is terrible at managing games (loses most challenges, doesn’t call the right timeouts, makes bad mistakes with rotations, plays favorites, is afraid to sit guys down when they don’t listen, I could go on and on.) Finch cannot seem to motivate the guys to play a full 48, and he cannot get them to follow the gameplan. I mean it is one thing to tell Karl to shoot at least 8 3s a game and be disappointed when he only shoots 3 or 4, but it is another when he tells them to play physical defense or box out and they don’t. Worse, his offensive schemes leave a lot to be desired. He doesn’t account for non shooters or spacing, and his organized chaos frequently devolves to disorganized chaos often see at the local rec center.

I get that coaching in the NBA is a delicate balance between managing egos and not being too soft or too firm. I get that coaches can only give instructions and not play for the players. But at some point when the same disasters keep happening, do we look at Finch and say maybe you just cannot right the ship, and maybe we need someone who can. Assuming of course the ship can be righted and isn’t just doomed to continue crashing into the rocks.
User avatar
m2002brian
Veteran
Posts: 2,996
And1: 1,126
Joined: May 29, 2009
     

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#287 » by m2002brian » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:11 pm

I’m starting to think any coach would have been better than Ryan. It’s like having a F1 car but Ryan was a 16 year old driver, couldn’t even drive a regular car very well, much less compete in f1. Then we get finch and he’s done some f3 work, raw driver, gets the basics, but has no plan when it comes to taking lines and holding off the cars behind him.

Getting a coach who will run an actual offensive system could be the next major step. We need our Lewis Hamilton, some one who knows how to drive and handle the car that is already full of star power.

Besides some insurance behind Mike, maybe what’s missing isn’t a particular player, it’s the need to upgrade to a more organized and disciplined coach.
BLUEGREENRED
Baseline81
Starter
Posts: 2,354
And1: 1,283
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#288 » by Baseline81 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:35 pm

m2002brian wrote:I’m starting to think any coach would have been better than Ryan. It’s like having a super car but Ryan was a 6 year old driver, couldn’t even reach the pedals. Then we get finch and he’s 16, raw driver, gets the basics, but has no plan when it comes to taking lines and holding off the cars behind him.

Getting a coach who will run an actual offensive system could be the next major step. We need our Lewis Hamilton, some one who knows how to drive and handle the super car that is our star power.

Besides some insurance behind Mike, maybe what’s missing isn’t a particular player, it’s the need to upgrade to a more organized and disciplined coach.

Image

Ryan left the bar on the floor. Finch, as I see him, is a transitional coach. He, as you say, righted the ship, but like the Bucks, see a different coach is needed.
guest81
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,963
And1: 1,500
Joined: Jun 26, 2014

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#289 » by guest81 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:49 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
m2002brian wrote:I’m starting to think any coach would have been better than Ryan. It’s like having a super car but Ryan was a 6 year old driver, couldn’t even reach the pedals. Then we get finch and he’s 16, raw driver, gets the basics, but has no plan when it comes to taking lines and holding off the cars behind him.

Getting a coach who will run an actual offensive system could be the next major step. We need our Lewis Hamilton, some one who knows how to drive and handle the super car that is our star power.

Besides some insurance behind Mike, maybe what’s missing isn’t a particular player, it’s the need to upgrade to a more organized and disciplined coach.

Image

Ryan left the bar on the floor. Finch, as I see him, is a transitional coach. He, as you say, righted the ship, but like the Bucks, see a different coach is needed.


The Bucks haven't exactly set the world on fire since bringing in Doc
User avatar
m2002brian
Veteran
Posts: 2,996
And1: 1,126
Joined: May 29, 2009
     

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#290 » by m2002brian » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:54 pm

Head coaching changes mid season are not easy. New system, no training camp. Relearning rotations. Setting new roles.

If Finch goes it will be after we lose our playoff series. A series in which we blew 4th quarter leads in a majority of the games. Where the offense stagnates and the coach just stands by and watches the other team go on double digit runs.
BLUEGREENRED
Baseline81
Starter
Posts: 2,354
And1: 1,283
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#291 » by Baseline81 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 2:21 pm

guest81 wrote:The Bucks haven't exactly set the world on fire since bringing in Doc

Agree, however, that doesn't mean the decision to move on was wrong. Milwaukee may have chose poorly in Rivers.

Please note I do not believe Finch is in any danger of losing his job, at least not this season.
TimberKat
Analyst
Posts: 3,219
And1: 1,562
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#292 » by TimberKat » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:15 pm

Finch better change things up after all star break and with the newly traded players. I also hope Ant makes the Olympic team. It will be really good for him to play under the shadows of great players ( not all star bs game) and see how to work with other players. Teams are stacking up on him and his passes are mostly inaccurate, late, or forcing the issues too much. I don't see Finch or any coach to could get him playing the right way or he is a dam slow learner.
guest81
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,963
And1: 1,500
Joined: Jun 26, 2014

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#293 » by guest81 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 5:19 pm

TimberKat wrote:Finch better change things up after all star break and with the newly traded players. I also hope Ant makes the Olympic team. It will be really good for him to play under the shadows of great players ( not all star bs game) and see how to work with other players. Teams are stacking up on him and his passes are mostly inaccurate, late, or forcing the issues too much. I don't see Finch or any coach to could get him playing the right way or he is a dam slow learner.


He's 22, an all star, and is the best player on the best team in the the most stacked west ever. What are you talking about?
User avatar
Domejandro
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 18,565
And1: 27,153
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
Location: San Diego, California

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#294 » by Domejandro » Wed Feb 7, 2024 5:34 pm

I actually thought that Ryan Saunders was a fine coach, he was a clever playcaller. The issue is that, with Gersson Rosas coming in, he was forced to completely nuke his offensive gameplan in favour of a more free-flowing offense, which really didn't suit him well. Just a bad fit for the moment, and the nepotism optics were poor.
Baseline81
Starter
Posts: 2,354
And1: 1,283
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#295 » by Baseline81 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:00 pm

Domejandro wrote:I actually thought that Ryan Saunders was a fine coach, he was a clever playcaller. The issue is that, with Gersson Rosas coming in, he was forced to completely nuke his offensive gameplan in favour of a more free-flowing offense, which really didn't suit him well. Just a bad fit for the moment, and the nepotism optics were poor.

Image

If what you say is true, he'd likely have gotten another chance by now.

His fourth quarter collapses were legendary.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,373
And1: 14,833
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#296 » by shrink » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:01 pm

Domejandro wrote:I actually thought that Ryan Saunders was a fine coach, he was a clever playcaller. The issue is that, with Gersson Rosas coming in, he was forced to completely nuke his offensive gameplan in favour of a more free-flowing offense, which really didn't suit him well. Just a bad fit for the moment, and the nepotism optics were poor.

I agree, and I would add that MIN really needed to appease KAT after Thibs and Jimmy threw him under the bus. I respect Towns for never saying anything negative about the organization while his reputation was taking a huge hit. He had also just had his best season ever (#2 in NBA in Win Shares) despite everyone giving Jimmy all the credit. Towns commented often about his great respect for Flip Saunders and the Saunders family, so I think getting a new coach who had a good relationship with their star player was smart.

Moreover, Gersson Rosas demanded that the team play his way, and that he didn’t want changes, wanting “other teams to adjust to us.” A more veteran coach would have resisted Rosas demands, especially with the youth and limited talent MIN had on the roster (spacey Wiggins and injured LaVine) at the time. Saunders was selected to follow orders and take losses until Rosas could put his own guy in place.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,373
And1: 14,833
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#297 » by shrink » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:03 pm

Baseline81 wrote:If what you say is true, he'd likely have gotten another chance by now.

He became an assistant coach for the Nuggets 15 months after the firing (so he has a ring), and Saunders is still just 37. I think many of these coaching re-treads will be gone in the next 5-10 years, and I expect Saunders will get other head coaching opportunities.
Baseline81
Starter
Posts: 2,354
And1: 1,283
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#298 » by Baseline81 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:08 pm

shrink wrote:Moreover, Gersson Rosas demanded that the team play his way, and that he didn’t want changes, wanting “other teams to adjust to us.” A more veteran coach would have resisted Rosas demands, especially with the youth and limited talent MIN had on the roster at the time. Saunders was selected to follow orders and take losses until Rosas could put his own guy in place.

Every Wolves fan could see Saunders was on borrowed time that last season. And yet, he refused to change, which doesn't make sense. If you are to be fired, go down the way you want. Yet young Ryan was nothing more than a peon throughout.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,373
And1: 14,833
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#299 » by shrink » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:09 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
shrink wrote:Moreover, Gersson Rosas demanded that the team play his way, and that he didn’t want changes, wanting “other teams to adjust to us.” A more veteran coach would have resisted Rosas demands, especially with the youth and limited talent MIN had on the roster at the time. Saunders was selected to follow orders and take losses until Rosas could put his own guy in place.

Every Wolves fan could see Saunders was on borrowed time that last season. And yet, he refused to change, which doesn't make sense. If you are to be fired, go down the way you want. Yet young Ryan was nothing more than a peon throughout.

I hear you, but remember, it’s NBA GMs that hire you for your next job, not fans. If you’re 34 and want a career in the NBA, you certainly risk getting another job if you demonstrate you’re unwilling to follow your GM’s orders.

For the record, the losing didn’t seem to permanently stain either Saunders or Rosas, who both have new jobs on other clubs.
TimberKat
Analyst
Posts: 3,219
And1: 1,562
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: The "Fire Chris Finch" Thread 

Post#300 » by TimberKat » Wed Feb 7, 2024 8:06 pm

guest81 wrote:
TimberKat wrote:Finch better change things up after all star break and with the newly traded players. I also hope Ant makes the Olympic team. It will be really good for him to play under the shadows of great players ( not all star bs game) and see how to work with other players. Teams are stacking up on him and his passes are mostly inaccurate, late, or forcing the issues too much. I don't see Finch or any coach to could get him playing the right way or he is a dam slow learner.


He's 22, an all star, and is the best player on the best team in the the most stacked west ever. What are you talking about?


In 2024 the Timberwolves are: 11-9, third in turnovers per game, lead the league in clutch losses (3-7 in clutch games in that time), have the third worst clutch net rating in the NBA, and blew 4th quarter leads in their most recent 7 losses. Rewind and watch the games. We are trending in the wrong direction.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves