Identity crisis?

[Isegrim]

Found this in the last BR Power Ranking and thougt it would fit the topic:

"The resilience of this group may be its hallmark. And the further we get into this season, the easier it is to take Minnesota seriously as a title contender.

The Wolves have, by a pretty significant margin, the best defense in the league."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10101860-nba-power-rankings-how-all-30-teams-stack-up-ahead-of-christmas

If I could pick any Identity characteristics for my team in any teamsport it would be camaraderie and resilience - espcially as I believe that both characteristics go hand in hand.

And defese. Oh I love you defense, as we all know what it wins you...

Happy Holidays for all of you!

[minimus]

One question. Let me know if my logic is off:

1) MIN is playing well when Conley is both highly efficient 3pt shooter, elite passer WHILE being a low usage player

2) we cant replace him with high volume, high usage offensive minded player because we don't have possessions for such player, we don't have assets and salary cap to acquire and keep such player (offensive minded players cost more). For instance, Clarkson. Unless we trade Towns...

3) we can't replace with Conley with 3&D players like Suggs, Cason Wallace or Caruso, because it will make our 20th offense even worse

4) we can't just add a movement shooter such as Huerter because we have invested in Edwards and McDaniels means usually a movement shooter plays SG/SF position

5) the only viable way to replace Conley is to get a fringe starter level PG such as Tyus Jones or Monte Morris and hope that new owners will keep current roster

Am I correct?

Another question: look at Edwards stats in last 12 games

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Aside from turnovers problems is this a near to maxed out version of Edwards? Let me explain why I am asking this. It looks like the main problem now is where MIN can get more offense from.

Based on my previous post it cant be Conley, who basically is already a hyper efficient player in his role. It cant be Edwards who has been playing at highest level (increased FTs attempts and 3PT%). It cant be Naz Reid who has been already hyper efficient in shot selection AND depends on pace, ball movement.

Read on Twitter

It cant be Gobert. So obvious answers are McDaniels and Towns. I have noticed that Finch at the beginning of couple of last few games want team to run plays for both McDaniels and Towns with purpose to get them going earlier. So it looks like our coaching staff sees and understand problem. I wonder if the biggest positive thing for this group is that during this tough stretch of games against strong team, all players are healthy and can battle through this slump. Because it is not simplest way to transform our offense, it is not so easy to distribute shots, making Edwards, McDaniels and Towns more efficient scorers. I am particularly concerned about turnovers which I think is more a system issue, let me explain, I see some contradictory points here:

- fans and media guys want more structure on offense
- Finch was brought here as free flow offense master
- more structured offense does NOT mean more complex: I think here is the main point where some misunderstood happens. More structured means more actions with purpose, for instance: cut harder, run back in defense to avoid cross match, set good screens. I do think you can play free flow offense with more structure, the biggest question for me is whether it is possible without a great shooter. Look at elite offenses: DEN with MPJ, Murray, look at SAC with Huerter, Fox, Murray, PHO with KD, Booker and Beal, MIL with Dame, MIA with Robinson and Herro. An elite shooter on the floor means one more gravity point on perimeter, one more dimension to offense, more passing, more ball movement. And more importantly: an elite shooter simplifies decision making for others - when a shooter gets the ball he will shoot. Many fans are questioning why Towns is not shooting 8-10 threes per game, but if you watch him playing this season you notice that he is not passing those wide open shots, he usually takes them, the problem is that he is NOT a movement shooter. Towns can shoot some pull up threes, but kind of prefer not to rush his shots. We can run more plays for him as a shooter, for instance: split action with Anderson in post, and Towns getting screen and shooting a three, or little horns action when he pops out. But it looks more as a secondary action.

The obvious paths to improve our offense will be:

1) acquiring a shooter to simplify our offense
2) acquiring a first pass backup PG, who can execute within team flow

[TimberKat]

Aside from turnovers problems is this a near to maxed out version of Edwards? Let me explain why I am asking this. It looks like the main problem now is where MIN can get more offense from.

So obvious answers are McDaniels and Towns. I have noticed that Finch at the beginning of couple of last few games want team to run plays for both McDaniels and Towns with purpose to get them going earlier. So it looks like our coaching staff sees and understand problem.

- more structured offense does NOT mean more complex: I think here is the main point where some misunderstood happens. More structured means more actions with purpose, for instance: cut harder, run back in defense to avoid cross match, set good screens. I do think you can play free flow offense with more structure, the biggest question for me is whether it is possible without a great shooter.

Towns can shoot some pull up threes, but kind of prefer not to rush his shots. We can run more plays for him as a shooter, for instance: split action with Anderson in post, and Towns getting screen and shooting a three, or little horns action when he pops out. But it looks more as a secondary action.

The obvious paths to improve our offense will be:

1) acquiring a shooter to simplify our offense
2) acquiring a first pass backup PG, who can execute within team flow

That is a great post with lots of insight and I couldn't agree more. I was thinking about posting similar comments about structure and Towns.

1. From stats point of view, this is likely the max Ant. I think he still can be better passer and help defender (when to come over, angle to double team, etc.)
2. Absolutely agree a better 3 pt shooter would help a lot. Ant is our best spot up right now. This is also where Markki has an advantage over Towns. We had to play JMcL with Conley so Conley can be the spot up guy that is a little desperate.
3. Better structure would minimize the need for KA. He is the glue guy in Finch's offense but can't shoot. Maybe allow us to swap him for Luke Kennard or play TBJr ahead of KA, unlock Milton, and better lob to Gobert (see how Cavs use Allen)
4.JMcD's slow start and Milton's no show had really compounded our problem.
5. From a minor trade point of view - Jones, Kennard, and Bogdan Bogdanivic are prime. I can't imagine we give up Conley (salary match) for them, so has to be KA + Milton + WAS 2nd round. Can we do some sort of conditional on Wolves' 2024 1st (maybe under the table )
6. If no trade, pray JMcD get his game together ( not foul out every other game), cut down the turn overs, put more structure in place, better at double team opponent star players. Naz and Towns need to play "stronger" again guys like Zion and Randle.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

I wonder if going through adversity as team will pay off at the end of the season. I mean look how he played through Edwards, McDaniels, Towns and McLaughlin injuries, look how many meaningful games played Edwards this season and last season. We play well despite problems with bench production and backup PG, we play through Anderson shooting issues.

[Colbinii]

I see us winning 27 more games. This puts us at 53-29.

[TimberKat]

I see us winning 27 more games. This puts us at 53-29.

I was thinking around the same number earlier but given Wolves now have the easiest schedule and assuming we will make a trade to improve before the deadline, I think we can keep the same pace of .718 which would be 59 games. That is 1 game better than the all time Wolves season.

[life_saver]

I don't see how people think this is close to max version of Ant. He has lot of room to improve with his playmaking/decision making...not to mention 1-2 careless turnovers he has every game. Cutting these down alone would make our offense even more efficient

[Guest84]

How close/similar is Kyle to Dramond? Green never really shot the ball at all but was a key player in that GS dynasty. What made him so effective? Can Kyle be just as effective? If so, what does he have to do?

I believe Shrink mentioned in another thread that Kyle may be a "morale" player and involving him in a trade could backfire if the return doesn't help.

[Klomp]

How close/similar is Kyle to Dramond? Green never really shot the ball at all but was a key player in that GS dynasty. What made him so effective? Can Kyle be just as effective? If so, what does he have to do?

He's definitely in that mold.

I think what worries so many (not necessarily me, for the record) is when that is paired on the team with Gobert, who also cannot space the floor with a jump shot. However, Gobert's willingness to attack the rim when unguarded, while a bit clumsy at times, forces defenses to stay somewhat attached to him.

[TimberKat]

How close/similar is Kyle to Dramond? Green never really shot the ball at all but was a key player in that GS dynasty. What made him so effective? Can Kyle be just as effective? If so, what does he have to do?

He's definitely in that mold.

I think what worries so many (not necessarily me, for the record) is when that is paired on the team with Gobert, who also cannot space the floor with a jump shot. However, Gobert's willingness to attack the rim when unguarded, while a bit clumsy at times, forces defenses to stay somewhat attached to him.

The only way this team could improve in a bigger way is by trading one (or more) of KA, Conley, Naz or JMcD. So what's the lesser of all evil? We can shop the buyout market but there is no guarantees we will get anything. I also don't think LAC will trade Hyland to Wolves for anything less than a #1 pick because they have no interest in helping the Wolves get better. I am sure some wants to trade Gobert or Towns before the deadline but that is not going to happen.

[Klomp]

The only way this team could improve in a bigger way is by trading one (or more) of KA, Conley, Naz or JMcD. So what's the lesser of all evil? We can shop the buyout market but there is no guarantees we will get anything. I also don't think LAC will trade Hyland to Wolves for anything less than a #1 pick because they have no interest in helping the Wolves get better. I am sure some wants to trade Gobert or Towns before the deadline but that is not going to happen.

We are the No. 1 team in the Western Conference. It's really not even close right now, either. We aren't stockpiling our wins against the East like other teams, either. We are 21-6 against the West. No other West team has less than 10 losses within the conference. Since the third game of the season, the worst team we've lost to is the 22-18 Phoenix Suns, on the back end of an emotionally charged back-to-back.

[Guest84]

The only way this team could improve in a bigger way is by trading one (or more) of KA, Conley, Naz or JMcD. So what's the lesser of all evil? We can shop the buyout market but there is no guarantees we will get anything. I also don't think LAC will trade Hyland to Wolves for anything less than a #1 pick because they have no interest in helping the Wolves get better. I am sure some wants to trade Gobert or Towns before the deadline but that is not going to happen.

We are the No. 1 team in the Western Conference. It's really not even close right now, either. We aren't stockpiling our wins against the East like other teams, either. We are 21-6 against the West. No other West team has less than 10 losses within the conference. Since the third game of the season, the worst team we've lost to is the 22-18 Phoenix Suns, on the back end of an emotionally charged back-to-back.

While I’m not opposed to making a bigger move, I just don’t know if the deadline is the time for it. But we’ll see what management wants to do.

[minimus]

We need a backup for Conley it is an obvious issue, because when he is tired our offense strugglles mightly. I am kind of optimistic that he re-signs here, because other strong competitors either don't have money to sign him as FA, or don't have opportunity for him to play a big role. In MIN at least he has some kind of continuity and defined high level starting job. So I think he resigns here.

From what I see, I assume that our opponents will use more and more same tactics as OKC:

- they will wear Conley down with physical plays such as screens, fouls etc

- they will aggressively attack our main decision makers with double teams (as long as one of Gobert or Anderson is on the floor)

- as season progresses Conley availability will be decreased since he needs some rest before playoffs

Many referenced DEN offense brilliance, the secret of their success is that their offense is both simple, yet effective AND they run it at highest speed w/o high turnover rate.

As many others I was wondering when TBJ fell out of rotation, the reason is simple: we need both ballhandling/decision making and devensive versatility that Anderson offers. So our problems in offense are direct consequences of our roster build and defensive identity. Today game against OKC is a perfect example: we put all our chips on defense and we could have won if our offense was not so awful.

As for Finch, I can see how our young players had been growing because often Finch uses play through adversity principle: in our case games such losses against OKC, BOS are perfect playoff level games. The biggest achievement for me is that we play such games in January, not in April. Edwards needs to commit his mistakes now, to have time and opportunity to learn it.

I really think that it is time for TC to make his magic, I do believe that his job to make this team stronger is close to impossible now, but I hope that latest news about new owner group with ARod, Lore, Schmidt etx, will clarify priorities for TC going into trade deadline. Will he get a permission to spend, make last minute trade? I don't see Tyus coming home, I think that ship sailed long ago. My hope is that after insertion of Ivey in DET rotation as PG, Monte Morris will be available AND somehow ended up in MIN. Monte is a good shooter, disciplined, played in high level offense in DEN and has connection with TC. And unlike Tyus he is not considered as low level starting PG in NBA, he is clearly a backup PG.

[Loaf_of_bread]

Worrying about a back up point guard is a moot point. We can get to the second round of the western conference playoffs.. but is a backup point guard holding us back from a championship?? No it's not.

[winforlose]

Worrying about a back up point guard is a moot point. We can get to the second round of the western conference playoffs.. but is a backup point guard holding us back from a championship?? No it's not.

It cost us the Dallas, Boston, and OKC games at the very least. Each of them is a playoff team, and with those 3 wins we would be much more secure in the best record in the NBA. Not having a backup PG means point Ant which is a very bad idea and a very serious contribution to our blowing leads. Even the leads we keep like the Thunder can be traced back to our problems with Ant at the point in the last 5 minutes. With a backup PG in the non Conley minutes the ball moves better, we score more, turn it over less, and if Mike is playing poorly we finish with a different look.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I agree about Minimus analysis. It was quite surprising ( and wll coached) to see how they block Mike to handle the ball ( double team him several times) and force him to do lot of efforts which affect clearly his shooting. We definitly need a good back up PG.

[minimus]

Worrying about a back up point guard is a moot point. We can get to the second round of the western conference playoffs.. but is a backup point guard holding us back from a championship?? No it's not.

You are absolute right! The ceiling of this team is mostly on starters: Towns can play better, Edwards, can play better, McDaniels can play A LOT better. However, when we think about ceiling it is about fulfilling potential, so mainly we speak about young guys Edwards, McDaniels, Reid. Our floor is more about veterans such as Gobert and Conley, who keep this team in games against bad teams such as DET, MEM.

However, my concern is mainly about:

1) Conley availability in playoff. IMO we are depend too much on Conley even in regular season games. Can we preserve him, making possible only 20-25 mpg in regular season? It does not sound critical but it is indeed very critical when time of playoff comes

2) playoff is very matchup depended. My worry is that we have enough tools to make opponents pay. I like our chances when Naz Reid and McLaughlin are running fast paced five-out offense against opponent small ball units. But we need to test our players, lineups and schemes in regular season. I would love to see more minutes for TBJ with Naz Reid.

[Dewey]

Must remove limiting factors in order to be excel… less turnovers and backup PG are two different types of needs.

I’m confident we’ll address these issues more than I’m confident out elite players will rise up in the PO’s … not trying to be negative, just realistic

[winforlose]

Must remove limiting factors in order to be excel… less turnovers and backup PG are two different types of needs.

I’m confident we’ll address these issues more than I’m confident out elite players will rise up in the PO’s … not trying to be negative, just realistic

That like saying if we lower the disease rate our economy will improve. But, at the same time we don’t need more vaccines we just need more social distancing as the two are not related. We both know that with a vaccine social distancing is more effective. Likewise with a backup PG, the ball will move better, shots get easier, and turnovers go down. You want a good example of this, compare JMAC minutes to non JMAC minutes when Conley is on the bench. We just need a better backup PG than JMAC.

[Loaf_of_bread]

I could be wrong, but feel this team in the playoffs is lacking a 3 point threat to add to the mix in the forth quarter.. even if said guy isn't a good defender..