Game 35: Timberwolves @ Mavericks 1-7-24 Record 25-9

[FrenchMinnyFan]

The DUMB strikes again and costs us the game.

We went up 106-100 and gave up 13 consecutive points.

Two brutally awful Gobert stone hands turnovers lead to Kyrie open 3's.
KAT goes full on chucker mode.

We trap Luka and get the ball out of his hands and Gobert refuses to help and boxes out Powell (for maybe the first time the whole game) while Jones is flying down the lane for a dunk. Meanwhile Ant is playing the trap halfheartedly instead of trying to force a difficult pass.

The trap is a good concept against a team like the Mavericks with 2 really good players and a bunch of below average players, but it's only going to work if you play it well. Rotate, make the passes difficult. Make weak players make good plays with the ball.
It's also not going to work if only 2 guys are playing the concept and Gobert is doing his own thing.

Bigs did a terrible job in the pick and roll when we were playing it straight up, not helping on the shooters and giving too much respect to Jones and Powell who were not offensive threats. So it was smart to go to the trap.

Jaden has just been flat out awful and KAT has been out of control and fouling like crazy all season.
Those 2 guys need to come to the party and start playing better because they are starting to emerge as the guys playing the furthest below their potential. I would add Gobert but sadly I think this is his new normal.

I love the efficiency and smart play from Mike, but sometimes I think we would really benefit if he took a little more control of the offense.

I agree with most of that. Still also did not understand why Finch sit Mike a cpl of min the the fourth. KAT and Rudy stupid plays at crutch time did not help. ANt was great, Jaden was terrible. Overall, we were not far. We have a tough schedule this week.

[Calinks]

Need to find ways to improve the offense as the season goes on. Middle of the pack wont cut it aginst the elite teams.

[Calinks]

I also hate how continually the other teams PF or big seems to be able to play super physical against us and get both of our bigs into serious foul trouble. It is happening over and over again.

[TimberKat]

Where is the offensive genius that Finch is supposed to be? It's time to dial up the offense. They need to raise the current avg score of 113 to 116.

[Biff Cooper]

Jaden 0-5 from 3-pt. Looked like he was scared to let it fly in the second half. He can't be thinking about it. We need him to shoot it automatically when we get him an open shot.

[Colbinii]

Where is the offensive genius that Finch is supposed to be? It's time to dial up the offense. They need to raise the current avg score of 113 to 116.

When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is.

[Calinks]

Where is the offensive genius that Finch is supposed to be? It's time to dial up the offense. They need to raise the current avg score of 113 to 116.

When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is.

They make mistakes but I also don't think that's totally fair. They still can be put in better positions for success.

Problems has been there all season, we just aren't a great offensive team. We are ok to good on any given night but we have not been able to develop any kind of top tier offense and we are going to lose if we get into a shootout with a team that can produce elite offense.

For years I have been saying its not a good thing if a big is your go guy in clutch situations. Unless you are Embiid or Giannis, you pretty much want that guy to be a wing or a guard because bigs are too easy to game plan out of clutch moments. Having to stop a hot Kyrie and Luka is a very tough position to be in during a clutch game and in the NBA Elite offense beats Elite defense.

KAT hit some big time shots himself to get us a lead but Dallas took over after that. Ant is the key for us but its hard to do it alone. We need more help from our guards and wings and Jaden/Naw were crap.

The team has to improve a lot on offense, its something we need to work on for the next 60 percent or so of the season. All of these other teams that are competing in ther west, OKC, Denver, Dallas, Clippers, they can get buckets. They have players who will hit open shots and knock down timely baskets. We have been doing that too of course but we will need to do it at a higher and more consistent rate because there will be nights where our defense will not be able to lock down some players and we will have to rely on a higher caliber of offense to get us through.

That's what makes Boston so dangerous, they can get you with defense and offense at elite levels. I don't think we can be a top 3 offensive team but we got to get in the under top 10 range to be a serious contender threat and we are probably around 17th right now which is a no go.

[thinktank]

Where is the offensive genius that Finch is supposed to be? It's time to dial up the offense. They need to raise the current avg score of 113 to 116.

When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is.

I’m not following that leap of logic.

A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling.

[Colbinii]

Where is the offensive genius that Finch is supposed to be? It's time to dial up the offense. They need to raise the current avg score of 113 to 116.

When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is.

I’m not following that leap of logic.

A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling.

Sure. But look at the teams with better offenses.

Pacers--Haliburton and Pace
Celtics--5-out with shooters, elite scorers and playmakers up and down the roster
Bucks--Lillard/Giannis and shooters like Malik Beasley shooting 45% from 3
OKC--MVP candidate in SGA with 5-out offense
76ers--Embiid
Hawks--Trae and shooters
Nuggets--Jokic and Murray
Clippers--Harden/PG13/Kawhi
Knicks--Brunson/Randle with solid shooters
Mavericks--Luka and now Kyrie is back>> Top 5 offense incoming
Warriors--Curry makes everyone 10x better with his gravity
Suns--Booker/KD
Pelicans--Zion/Ingram/Trey Murphy/McCollum, offensive center
Kings--Top 5 offense last year

This is where things get confusing, I admit--Raptors/Cavaliers/Heat/Nets. None of these teams have more offensive talent or juice than we do.

I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively. We don't take a ton of 3's, we don't make a ton of 3's, ect. We are Top 5 in shots at the rim and Top 5 in 3P%, but we aren't Top in 3PA so our 3P% isn't as impactful.

I will say this, our team is built for the post-season more-so than the regular season. Our offense isn't easy to stop. Sure, it may be quite mediocre night-to-night, since we don't have a Haliburton/Harden/Trae/Brunson/Luka/Embiid/SGA/Jokic/Lillard/Giannis/Booker, ect. But, we have an offense with a good floor that is hard to stop completely, and that makes our offense an effective post-season offense, especially with how good our defense is.

[thinktank]

When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is.

I’m not following that leap of logic.

A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling.

Sure. But look at the teams with better offenses.

Pacers--Haliburton and Pace
Celtics--5-out with shooters, elite scorers and playmakers up and down the roster
Bucks--Lillard/Giannis and shooters like Malik Beasley shooting 45% from 3
OKC--MVP candidate in SGA with 5-out offense
76ers--Embiid
Hawks--Trae and shooters
Nuggets--Jokic and Murray
Clippers--Harden/PG13/Kawhi
Knicks--Brunson/Randle with solid shooters
Mavericks--Luka and now Kyrie is back>> Top 5 offense incoming
Warriors--Curry makes everyone 10x better with his gravity
Suns--Booker/KD
Pelicans--Zion/Ingram/Trey Murphy/McCollum, offensive center
Kings--Top 5 offense last year

This is where things get confusing, I admit--Raptors/Cavaliers/Heat/Nets. None of these teams have more offensive talent or juice than we do.

I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively. We don't take a ton of 3's, we don't make a ton of 3's, ect. We are Top 5 in shots at the rim and Top 5 in 3P%, but we aren't Top in 3PA so our 3P% isn't as impactful.

I will say this, our team is built for the post-season more-so than the regular season. Our offense isn't easy to stop. Sure, it may be quite mediocre night-to-night, since we don't have a Haliburton/Harden/Trae/Brunson/Luka/Embiid/SGA/Jokic/Lillard/Giannis/Booker, ect. But, we have an offense with a good floor that is hard to stop completely, and that makes our offense an effective post-season offense, especially with how good our defense is.

I'm following everything you said.

You started saying "But look at the teams with better offenses" and then gave me a list of teams and your quick summary of... what exactly?

Then after the list you said "I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively". Ok.

But we started with "When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is."

To which I said, "A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling."

Therefore, I infer you don't think Finch can get Ant and KAT to be better on offense. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

That's all I can take away from this.

[Colbinii]

I’m not following that leap of logic.

A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling.

Sure. But look at the teams with better offenses.

Pacers--Haliburton and Pace
Celtics--5-out with shooters, elite scorers and playmakers up and down the roster
Bucks--Lillard/Giannis and shooters like Malik Beasley shooting 45% from 3
OKC--MVP candidate in SGA with 5-out offense
76ers--Embiid
Hawks--Trae and shooters
Nuggets--Jokic and Murray
Clippers--Harden/PG13/Kawhi
Knicks--Brunson/Randle with solid shooters
Mavericks--Luka and now Kyrie is back>> Top 5 offense incoming
Warriors--Curry makes everyone 10x better with his gravity
Suns--Booker/KD
Pelicans--Zion/Ingram/Trey Murphy/McCollum, offensive center
Kings--Top 5 offense last year

This is where things get confusing, I admit--Raptors/Cavaliers/Heat/Nets. None of these teams have more offensive talent or juice than we do.

I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively. We don't take a ton of 3's, we don't make a ton of 3's, ect. We are Top 5 in shots at the rim and Top 5 in 3P%, but we aren't Top in 3PA so our 3P% isn't as impactful.

I will say this, our team is built for the post-season more-so than the regular season. Our offense isn't easy to stop. Sure, it may be quite mediocre night-to-night, since we don't have a Haliburton/Harden/Trae/Brunson/Luka/Embiid/SGA/Jokic/Lillard/Giannis/Booker, ect. But, we have an offense with a good floor that is hard to stop completely, and that makes our offense an effective post-season offense, especially with how good our defense is.

I'm following everything you said.

You started saying "But look at the teams with better offenses" and then gave me a list of teams and your quick summary of... what exactly?

Then after the list you said "I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively". Ok.

But we started with "When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is."

To which I said, "A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling."

Therefore, I infer you don't think Finch can get Ant and KAT to be better on offense. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

That's all I can take away from this.

I think Finch has gotten a lot out of KAT and ANT. I am not as high on KAT and ANT as you are, clearly, but ANT is already hitting his 99 Percentile Outcome, which is crazy.

Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have.

[thinktank]

Sure. But look at the teams with better offenses.

Pacers--Haliburton and Pace
Celtics--5-out with shooters, elite scorers and playmakers up and down the roster
Bucks--Lillard/Giannis and shooters like Malik Beasley shooting 45% from 3
OKC--MVP candidate in SGA with 5-out offense
76ers--Embiid
Hawks--Trae and shooters
Nuggets--Jokic and Murray
Clippers--Harden/PG13/Kawhi
Knicks--Brunson/Randle with solid shooters
Mavericks--Luka and now Kyrie is back>> Top 5 offense incoming
Warriors--Curry makes everyone 10x better with his gravity
Suns--Booker/KD
Pelicans--Zion/Ingram/Trey Murphy/McCollum, offensive center
Kings--Top 5 offense last year

This is where things get confusing, I admit--Raptors/Cavaliers/Heat/Nets. None of these teams have more offensive talent or juice than we do.

I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively. We don't take a ton of 3's, we don't make a ton of 3's, ect. We are Top 5 in shots at the rim and Top 5 in 3P%, but we aren't Top in 3PA so our 3P% isn't as impactful.

I will say this, our team is built for the post-season more-so than the regular season. Our offense isn't easy to stop. Sure, it may be quite mediocre night-to-night, since we don't have a Haliburton/Harden/Trae/Brunson/Luka/Embiid/SGA/Jokic/Lillard/Giannis/Booker, ect. But, we have an offense with a good floor that is hard to stop completely, and that makes our offense an effective post-season offense, especially with how good our defense is.

I'm following everything you said.

You started saying "But look at the teams with better offenses" and then gave me a list of teams and your quick summary of... what exactly?

Then after the list you said "I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively". Ok.

But we started with "When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is."

To which I said, "A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling."

Therefore, I infer you don't think Finch can get Ant and KAT to be better on offense. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

That's all I can take away from this.

I think Finch has gotten a lot out of KAT and ANT. I am not as high on KAT and ANT as you are, clearly, but ANT is already hitting his 99 Percentile Outcome, which is crazy.

Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have.

"Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have"

I agree with this.

I'm not high on KAT. I'm high on Ant.

I just think Finch COULD make both Ant and KAT better. Will he? We'll find out. BUT, a good coach can always make their players better.

[Colbinii]

I'm following everything you said.

You started saying "But look at the teams with better offenses" and then gave me a list of teams and your quick summary of... what exactly?

Then after the list you said "I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively". Ok.

But we started with "When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is."

To which I said, "A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling."

Therefore, I infer you don't think Finch can get Ant and KAT to be better on offense. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

That's all I can take away from this.

I think Finch has gotten a lot out of KAT and ANT. I am not as high on KAT and ANT as you are, clearly, but ANT is already hitting his 99 Percentile Outcome, which is crazy.

Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have.

"Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have"

I agree with this.

I'm not high on KAT. I'm high on Ant.

I just think Finch COULD make both Ant and KAT better. Will he? We'll find out. BUT, a good coach can always make their players better.

Finch already has made them better, that's my point.

[thinktank]

Finch already has made them better, that's my point.

Yes, you're saying no coach could ever improve this duo offensively.

I'm saying that's BS, to be clear.

[Colbinii]

Finch already has made them better, that's my point.

Yes, you're saying no coach could ever improve this duo offensively.

I'm saying that's BS, to be clear.

I never said that.

You can't read.

I said Finch has gotten close to the maximum out of their potential offensively.

You can start reading, or quit replying. Upto you

[twolves31]

Sure. But look at the teams with better offenses.

Pacers--Haliburton and Pace
Celtics--5-out with shooters, elite scorers and playmakers up and down the roster
Bucks--Lillard/Giannis and shooters like Malik Beasley shooting 45% from 3
OKC--MVP candidate in SGA with 5-out offense
76ers--Embiid
Hawks--Trae and shooters
Nuggets--Jokic and Murray
Clippers--Harden/PG13/Kawhi
Knicks--Brunson/Randle with solid shooters
Mavericks--Luka and now Kyrie is back>> Top 5 offense incoming
Warriors--Curry makes everyone 10x better with his gravity
Suns--Booker/KD
Pelicans--Zion/Ingram/Trey Murphy/McCollum, offensive center
Kings--Top 5 offense last year

This is where things get confusing, I admit--Raptors/Cavaliers/Heat/Nets. None of these teams have more offensive talent or juice than we do.

I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively. We don't take a ton of 3's, we don't make a ton of 3's, ect. We are Top 5 in shots at the rim and Top 5 in 3P%, but we aren't Top in 3PA so our 3P% isn't as impactful.

I will say this, our team is built for the post-season more-so than the regular season. Our offense isn't easy to stop. Sure, it may be quite mediocre night-to-night, since we don't have a Haliburton/Harden/Trae/Brunson/Luka/Embiid/SGA/Jokic/Lillard/Giannis/Booker, ect. But, we have an offense with a good floor that is hard to stop completely, and that makes our offense an effective post-season offense, especially with how good our defense is.

I'm following everything you said.

You started saying "But look at the teams with better offenses" and then gave me a list of teams and your quick summary of... what exactly?

Then after the list you said "I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively". Ok.

But we started with "When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is."

To which I said, "A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling."

Therefore, I infer you don't think Finch can get Ant and KAT to be better on offense. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

That's all I can take away from this.

I think Finch has gotten a lot out of KAT and ANT. I am not as high on KAT and ANT as you are, clearly, but ANT is already hitting his 99 Percentile Outcome, which is crazy.

Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have.

You think this is Ants 99% percentile and he wont improve beyond what we are seeing now?

[Colbinii]

I'm following everything you said.

You started saying "But look at the teams with better offenses" and then gave me a list of teams and your quick summary of... what exactly?

Then after the list you said "I think we just aren't elite at anything offensively". Ok.

But we started with "When you have ANT and KAT as your primary offensive pieces, it doesn't really matter how good the coach is."

To which I said, "A good coach reaches players and lifts their ceiling."

Therefore, I infer you don't think Finch can get Ant and KAT to be better on offense. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

That's all I can take away from this.

I think Finch has gotten a lot out of KAT and ANT. I am not as high on KAT and ANT as you are, clearly, but ANT is already hitting his 99 Percentile Outcome, which is crazy.

Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have.

You think this is Ants 99% percentile and he wont improve beyond what we are seeing now?

I think he is on that trajectory.

[TimberKat]

I think Finch has gotten a lot out of KAT and ANT. I am not as high on KAT and ANT as you are, clearly, but ANT is already hitting his 99 Percentile Outcome, which is crazy.

Most of the teams above have--objectively--far better offensive players than the Timberwolves have.

You think this is Ants 99% percentile and he wont improve beyond what we are seeing now?

I think he is on that trajectory.

This team currently rank 22nd in points score. If Finch can't improve that with the current group, it's time to find a new coach. Even if all the players had peaked, we still can be more efficient, add a few plays, etc to get better.

Towns may had peaked. I think Ant is only 80% peak (at max). He still can get better with the stutter steps and passing the ball.

We are playing at 22nd rank in scoring but I can't see we are that low with the talent on this team.

[minimus]

Watching the game now, what happened to our ability to lock down opponent in 3rd, 4th quarter?