Wolves v Celtics 1/10 Game Thread

[thinktank]

KAT is 28 years-old in his 9th season, and you're admitting he's made changes to help us win this year. But Ant, at age 22 is a finished product?

Ant has a long ways to go with his decision making, but that's one of the last things to come. He's made huge strides every year of his career and there is no reason to think "maturity" isn't on the horizon.

I rewatched Michael Jordan's rookie season game against the Lakers last weekend and first think I noticed was how much better a passer he was compared with Ant (at one year younger). It's the same tunnel vision since College, so don't expect it to be "fixed" or "mature" anytime soon. My best hope is if we can contain it. I like the basic rules you guys proposed. In addition, maybe don't give him the ball (or not as often) until later in the clock (look for offense elsewhere first, ex: Towns post up,), make his move earlier in the clock, simplify his 1 on X (which we already did and teams are catching up to it). Overall, if we can "contain" the error rate and with one good trade like last year, Wolves are a top 4 team in the West.

Comparing anyone to Jordan is unfair.

But compare him to Kobe or Tatum at 22 and you'll see two guys just as lost with their decision making.

Ant is the same age Dwayne Wade was as a rookie (4.5 Assists, 3.2 Turnovers).

Jordan was a black hole too.

[guest81]

Wolves were the number 1 clutch team just a few games ago, biggest part of that is ant. He's 22, we're holding him to mj standards. People need to calm down. They were on a back to back and flew in last minute against the best team in the league.

[Calinks]

Wolves were the number 1 clutch team just a few games ago, biggest part of that is ant. He's 22, we're holding him to mj standards. People need to calm down. They were on a back to back and flew in last minute against the best team in the league.

Yep, we need to get better but that doesn't mean we are abysmal. We are a really good team this season so far we just got work to do to be truly great. It might not happen at all this year but if we can keep the core together I think we can get there, I just don't know if we can keep it together with the new tax rules so this season is really important because it may be the last time we have these guys together.

[Colbinii]

I feel bad for Towns, because often times he is tasked with shooting shots from incredibly awkward angles because he touches it late in the shot-clock. He is clearly Minnesota’s best offensive weapon, and he’s basically relegated to garbage man at the end of games. Just a waste of his extraordinary offensive talent, he shouldn’t be relegated to being the secondary scorer. It’s total bull.

I think that more has to do with how the game is played. I think its just much easier to play through a guard elite guard (Ant) for offense than it is to play through an elite Big (Towns). Bigs don't get the calls guards get, Bigs are easier to stop and stifle, guards can get through defense. As we saw tonight and against Dallas, having elite scoring guards/wings are pretty much the trump card in clutch games. If you have a Tatum, Luka, or Kyrie you can go to who can get you buckets at a drop of a hat your team can win any close game. It's way harder for Towns to get offense off like that.

That still doesn't mean we can't use Towns far more effectively. I have been saying we need to get him way more shots than we are. I still think Ant should be our go to guy but Towns should be getting feed like crazy from the opening tip IMO. I'd go to Ant to close out games but I'd rely on Towns to carry me for quarters 1-4 until the last 5 minutes or so.

I think we should be having him gun it, especially from the corner.

All of the best players in the league are bigs. Giannis, Embiid, Jokic. They have all of the MVP’s and 2 of the titles the last 5 years.

Who has the other titles?

Curry, Kawhi and LeBron

Who were the other NBA Finals teams led by?

Tatum, Butler, Booker/CP3, Curry, Butler

[A1FromDay1]

Someone here said Towns is getting called for so many offensive fouls just because he's double and triple teamed a lot. That's ridiculous. He's leading the league in offensive fouls along with Giannis for like 9 years, we can't really believe he's the most double and triple teamed player in the NBA for the past 9 years.

Ant clearly cost us this game but as someone else said, we wouldn't have even made it to overtime without him. He's 22 and contrary to what people here have said, that he's not likely to improve like Towns did or that he plays just as in college, I do see constant improving in him and I am very positive he will pass better every year. I haven't seen this drive to get better in many players (Butler is one) and I'm glad at least opposing players, coaches and fans appreciate him more than some here, who still believe Karl is the Wolves' best offensive weapon.

We finished the hellish 16 games stretch 9-7. I'd have been happy with just 8-8 before it started. What I saw is a very good team that's just not ready for the championship yet. Boston is way better and our position in the standings owes a lot to opponents' injuries too, not just skill. Yet we took them to OT without 2 starters (the floor general's absence mattered the most) and could've traveled home with the W if not for some young mistakes or Finch not challenging the double foul.

We're growing and we'll get where we want pretty soon. I don't think we're ready just yet but we lead the West for some months now. Mike will not refuse to resign with us like some here suggested. That's ridiculous. We're close to something very special.

[TimberKat]

Wolves were the number 1 clutch team just a few games ago, biggest part of that is ant. He's 22, we're holding him to mj standards. People need to calm down. They were on a back to back and flew in last minute against the best team in the league.

MJ, Tatum, Kobe, Mitchell, etc are all self centric shoot first players. We are only talking about their decision making ability and not overall basketball skills. I can compare Ant's decision making to Steve Kerr's if you want, but the real question is how should we close out games?

We did basically the same thing vs DAL and BOS. Regardless of circumstances, we had a chance to win but we fumbled it away the same way. So, do you want to do the same again - 'Live Die Repeat' and expect a different result next time? Or do something a little different? Maybe the league has catch up to us.

We aren't talking about let's trade Ant for Quickley. I still think Ant is the best closer option but just not the way he close out the last two games. Mitchell came up big today for Cavs. There were a few critical possessions the ball never left his hands but I think he made better decisions.

[TimberKat]

Someone here said Towns is getting called for so many offensive fouls just because he's double and triple teamed a lot. That's ridiculous. He's leading the league in offensive fouls along with Giannis for like 9 years, we can't really believe he's the most double and triple teamed player in the NBA for the past 9 years.

Ant clearly cost us this game but as someone else said, we wouldn't have even made it to overtime without him. He's 22 and contrary to what people here have said, that he's not likely to improve like Towns did or that he plays just as in college, I do see constant improving in him and I am very positive he will pass better every year. I haven't seen this drive to get better in many players (Butler is one) and I'm glad at least opposing players, coaches and fans appreciate him more than some here, who still believe Karl is the Wolves' best offensive weapon.

We finished the hellish 16 games stretch 9-7. I'd have been happy with just 8-8 before it started. What I saw is a very good team that's just not ready for the championship yet. Boston is way better and our position in the standings owes a lot to opponents' injuries too, not just skill. Yet we took them to OT without 2 starters (the floor general's absence mattered the most) and could've traveled home with the W if not for some young mistakes or Finch not challenging the double foul.

We're growing and we'll get where we want pretty soon. I don't think we're ready just yet but we lead the West for some months now. Mike will not refuse to resign with us like some here suggested. That's ridiculous. We're close to something very special.

Agree with most of it. I was expecting we get blown away by Q2 like in PHX. I actually think we are a lot closer to champion level after the game. If we figure out how to close games better, we could be11-5. Maybe one trade for the right player will give us more cushion to play with. Make the run when you have a chance. Don't wait for next year. Just ask Dan Marino about it.

[minimus]

Just watched the game. I liked the effort, however in clutch low IQ mistakes were main reason of losing this game. I wonder if NAW can grow in Derrick White type of player. Overall Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens have done a excellent job and build an excellent team around very specific players such as Tatum and Brown.

[Klomp]

Wolves were the number 1 clutch team just a few games ago, biggest part of that is ant. He's 22, we're holding him to mj standards.

Not only that, but even let's think about the comparisons to Tatum and Shai. What were they doing at 22?

[FrenchMinnyFan]

The issue is that ANT is not a rookie. He is in NBA now for years and did not improve this part of the game. Finch is nice but the polite speach "" This is part of learning process'' is a bit of sweat talk. If no improvement, there is no chance we pass Denver, Clippers or Boston as same mistake bring always the same result. But season still long, maybe i'm wrong and ANT improve at crutch time. Hope so.
I see KAT annoyed a cpl of times with that. KAT change a lot because he wants to win. Not sure things will not getting worse if ANT ( and JAden) still show too much immaturity, I'm also not sure Mike will be willing to sign new contract. AS he say before, the only things that matter for him is to win a title before retired. Let's see.

KAT is 28 years-old in his 9th season, and you're admitting he's made changes to help us win this year. But Ant, at age 22 is a finished product?

Ant has a long ways to go with his decision making, but that's one of the last things to come. He's made huge strides every year of his career and there is no reason to think "maturity" isn't on the horizon.

I'm not saying ANT cannot improve, i am saying he did not improve yet , big difference.
I think comparing MJ tyo ANT does not make sense too, MJ is the goat ( at least for me) and he was smart enough to surround him by players who contribute to his legacy.

I follow Mike since he got trade, know him quite well ( have the chance to meet him in Memphis). When I look at Mike stat, he was never a TO guy, start at 2TO for 4.2 Assist and spend most of his career at 6/1....I think ANT can improve but he will never be elite .
Which is not a problem for me. Solution come from the coach. Who run the offense at crutch time, Who get green light to shoot....? Finch get the answwer, not ANT.
As i say before, ANT going for 30 every night and providing elite defense will make him an All NBA and make us win. No need to play the hero ball.

[guest81]

Wolves were the number 1 clutch team just a few games ago, biggest part of that is ant. He's 22, we're holding him to mj standards. People need to calm down. They were on a back to back and flew in last minute against the best team in the league.

MJ, Tatum, Kobe, Mitchell, etc are all self centric shoot first players. We are only talking about their decision making ability and not overall basketball skills. I can compare Ant's decision making to Steve Kerr's if you want, but the real question is how should we close out games?

We did basically the same thing vs DAL and BOS. Regardless of circumstances, we had a chance to win but we fumbled it away the same way. So, do you want to do the same again - 'Live Die Repeat' and expect a different result next time? Or do something a little different? Maybe the league has catch up to us.

We aren't talking about let's trade Ant for Quickley. I still think Ant is the best closer option but just not the way he close out the last two games. Mitchell came up big today for Cavs. There were a few critical possessions the ball never left his hands but I think he made better decisions.

Do you think those players have made the best decisions in clutch time, everytime in their careers?

[winforlose]

Wolves were the number 1 clutch team just a few games ago, biggest part of that is ant. He's 22, we're holding him to mj standards. People need to calm down. They were on a back to back and flew in last minute against the best team in the league.

MJ, Tatum, Kobe, Mitchell, etc are all self centric shoot first players. We are only talking about their decision making ability and not overall basketball skills. I can compare Ant's decision making to Steve Kerr's if you want, but the real question is how should we close out games?

We did basically the same thing vs DAL and BOS. Regardless of circumstances, we had a chance to win but we fumbled it away the same way. So, do you want to do the same again - 'Live Die Repeat' and expect a different result next time? Or do something a little different? Maybe the league has catch up to us.

We aren't talking about let's trade Ant for Quickley. I still think Ant is the best closer option but just not the way he close out the last two games. Mitchell came up big today for Cavs. There were a few critical possessions the ball never left his hands but I think he made better decisions.

Do you think those players have made the best decisions in clutch time, everytime in their careers?

This is the argument. Some people point to this as our best season and our year to win the championship. Others point to this as a growth year and recognize the growing pains. The truth is we do have a KAT prime timeline and an Ant prime timeline and they are in conflict right now. Ant will continue to develop, but as he does so he will cost us games. If Finch cannot hold him accountable he will not develop into the player we all want him too. Ant must learn that when he makes these mistakes his team loses games that could/should be won. Meanwhile the fan base needs to acknowledge that Ant is 22, and while quite talented, is far from a finished product ready to lead a team.

[KGdaBom]

MJ, Tatum, Kobe, Mitchell, etc are all self centric shoot first players. We are only talking about their decision making ability and not overall basketball skills. I can compare Ant's decision making to Steve Kerr's if you want, but the real question is how should we close out games?

We did basically the same thing vs DAL and BOS. Regardless of circumstances, we had a chance to win but we fumbled it away the same way. So, do you want to do the same again - 'Live Die Repeat' and expect a different result next time? Or do something a little different? Maybe the league has catch up to us.

We aren't talking about let's trade Ant for Quickley. I still think Ant is the best closer option but just not the way he close out the last two games. Mitchell came up big today for Cavs. There were a few critical possessions the ball never left his hands but I think he made better decisions.

Do you think those players have made the best decisions in clutch time, everytime in their careers?

This is the argument. Some people point to this as our best season and our year to win the championship. Others point to this as a growth year and recognize the growing pains. The truth is we do have a KAT prime timeline and an Ant prime timeline and they are in conflict right now. Ant will continue to develop, but as he does so he will cost us games. If Finch cannot hold him accountable he will not develop into the player we all want him too. Ant must learn that when he makes these mistakes his team loses games that could/should be won. Meanwhile the fan base needs to acknowledge that Ant is 22, and while quite talented, is far from a finished product ready to lead a team.

Are you aware that Kobe NEVER passed in the clutch and shot 28% on clutch shots as defined by ESPN?

[winforlose]

Do you think those players have made the best decisions in clutch time, everytime in their careers?

This is the argument. Some people point to this as our best season and our year to win the championship. Others point to this as a growth year and recognize the growing pains. The truth is we do have a KAT prime timeline and an Ant prime timeline and they are in conflict right now. Ant will continue to develop, but as he does so he will cost us games. If Finch cannot hold him accountable he will not develop into the player we all want him too. Ant must learn that when he makes these mistakes his team loses games that could/should be won. Meanwhile the fan base needs to acknowledge that Ant is 22, and while quite talented, is far from a finished product ready to lead a team.

Are you aware that Kobe NEVER passed in the clutch and shot 28% on clutch shots as defined by ESPN?

I was not. What was his turnover percentage in the clutch?

[KGdaBom]

This is the argument. Some people point to this as our best season and our year to win the championship. Others point to this as a growth year and recognize the growing pains. The truth is we do have a KAT prime timeline and an Ant prime timeline and they are in conflict right now. Ant will continue to develop, but as he does so he will cost us games. If Finch cannot hold him accountable he will not develop into the player we all want him too. Ant must learn that when he makes these mistakes his team loses games that could/should be won. Meanwhile the fan base needs to acknowledge that Ant is 22, and while quite talented, is far from a finished product ready to lead a team.

Are you aware that Kobe NEVER passed in the clutch and shot 28% on clutch shots as defined by ESPN?

I was not. What was his turnover percentage in the clutch?

He didn't turn it over much off the top of my head. Never tried to do anything, but shoot so TOs were limited.

[TimberKat]

Are you aware that Kobe NEVER passed in the clutch and shot 28% on clutch shots as defined by ESPN?

I was not. What was his turnover percentage in the clutch?

He didn't turn it over much off the top of my head. Never tried to do anything, but shoot so TOs were limited.

I know Kobe NEVER (or very seldom) passes and his clutch shooting from a statically point of view was bad but didn't know the actual percentage. Then don't be like Kobe and be like Mike.

[KGdaBom]

I was not. What was his turnover percentage in the clutch?

He didn't turn it over much off the top of my head. Never tried to do anything, but shoot so TOs were limited.

I know Kobe NEVER (or very seldom) passes and his clutch shooting from a statically point of view was bad but didn't know the actual percentage. Then don't be like Kobe and be like Mike.

Kobe would sometimes pass the ball, but I never once recall him passing the ball in the clutch. He didn't trust his teammates and believed he had to take every big shot.
Mike would pass the ball in the clutch because he trusted his teammates and had some great shooters like Steve Kerr and Craig Hodges to pass to. The guy he passed the ball to knew he had to make the shot or Mike would kill him .

[Guest84]

Watch on YouTube

Wolves talk in the beginning

[younggunsmn]

To me this was one of the most impressive games we have played this season.
If we had Mike, I think we win by double digits.

From about mid 2nd quarter until 4 minutes left, some of the smartest and well played basketball we've had all year.
The passing was crisp, the spacing was great, the defense was active, hands and feet quick.
We valued EVERY possession it seemed during that time, like a contending playoff team should.
We systematically chipped away a 9 pt deficit into a 9 point lead, against a team with a couple of guys who were absolute flamethrowers that night.

We had only 9 turnovers, 5 of those from Ant, almost all late 4th and overtime.

At the end of the game and in overtime, we were clearly gassed.
The decision making was bad.
The problem wasn't that the ball was in Ant's hands, it's that we were running the same play/playset over and over which Boston was scheming against.
With Ant getting the ball in the right slot and either running a mid pick or straight ISO.
Boston was scheming to trap him and force the pass to the right corner, taking away the cross court reversal passes, and it worked pretty well.

The wolves needed to get into different sets, more variety to counter what Boston was doing.

Our other go to was KAT at the top of the break/left slot, which they were also loading up on.

Those are our 2 favorite go-to's, and without Mike out there we weren't able to get into anything else to counter what they were doing.

One thing I noticed, although the officiating may have been a hair biased, was that Boston does a TREMENDOUS job of defending without fouling.
They move their feet well, their verticality when contesting is always very good.
White/Brown/Tatum/Holiday all are absolutely tremendous at this. It's why they can play small lineups effectively.

There is a lot of what Boston was doing that the coaches can show our players, that we should be implementing.
Defending without fouling. Verticality. Trapping effectively.

A lot of blame goes on Ant for the crunch time failures, but we wouldn't have been in position to win without him and what he did in the 1st 45 minutes of the game.

It was interesting that in the Portland game Finch had Ant running some sets he hasn't been doing much, like the open side pick and roll with Rudy on the left side of the floor.
That set could work tremendously with KAT too.

Maybe Finch is also realizing he needs to get Ant more variety in how he attacks a defense.