Connelly gets his guard he had in DEN! (not Bones...yet)

[winforlose]

Good answer. I just hope to hear far less repeated criticism of Kyle from you or anybody else. It IMO serves no or very little purpose.

You won’t hear me talking about trading Kyle this year. In fact I expect us to resign Kyle for 10-12 in the offseason using bird rights. I further expect Kyle to be traded in February 2025 to help improve the roster next year.

What you will hear is bench Kyle if we continue to lose, especially in the calamitous fashion we have been losing. If that bothers you, I apologize in advance.

It does bother me because I've already heard that opinion from you over 100 times. I don't need to hear it any more. Your mission is accomplished. I know you don't like him and want to limit his minutes as much as possible.

It is not about a mission, it is about post game analysis and discussion, especially heading into the playoffs. You can tell me Ant shouldn’t play hero ball, but every game he does it is relevant to talk about. You can say Karl should shoot more 3s, when he doesn’t we still talk about it. You can say Jaden needs to be more involved in the offense, when he is or isn’t we still talk about it. Repetition happens when the situation is ongoing and evolving.

[Klomp]

But how do you do that with him on the floor on offense. We moved on from V8 because he wasn’t a big enough threat on offense. Kyle is that non threat this year. When he in the corner his man is in Ant’s driving lane, or trapping Ant above the break. When Karl drives Kyle’s man is rotating over and cutting him off. Kyle could dive to the basket, but unlike V8 doesn’t have the instinct or athleticism to get up high and slam it home. My problem with Kyle isn’t just that he turns the ball over, it’s that he causes turnovers by his very presence.

"Moving on from V8" was about putting value in a trade to get Gobert. We also knew we had Kyle coming in so second unit PF wasn't really a need either.

What makes Kyle a threat without the ball as opposed to Jarred are his BBIQ and passing ability.

If I recall correctly we didn’t need to move his money to make the deal work. The value was the picks. Plus in a worst case we could have done fewer protections on 29, maybe top 3 or top 4 protected and kept him. V8 was a liability in the 21-22 playoffs so we moved on from him. The same thing is true of Kyle.

If Mike, Monte, Ant, and KAT have the ball how does Kyle’s passing factor in? Regarding his high BBIQ, why do our turnovers usually go way up when he is on the floor if he can use the BBIQ to keep the defense honest?

Because floor spacing is critical. We have too many guys who don't understand that concept. It's far deeper than just whether or not a guy without the ball can shoot or not, but things like creating passing lanes, finding soft spots in the zone, positioning yourself to make the next pass to the corner, etc. These are ways that Kyle excels, even if he doesn't have the ball.

[winforlose]

"Moving on from V8" was about putting value in a trade to get Gobert. We also knew we had Kyle coming in so second unit PF wasn't really a need either.

What makes Kyle a threat without the ball as opposed to Jarred are his BBIQ and passing ability.

If I recall correctly we didn’t need to move his money to make the deal work. The value was the picks. Plus in a worst case we could have done fewer protections on 29, maybe top 3 or top 4 protected and kept him. V8 was a liability in the 21-22 playoffs so we moved on from him. The same thing is true of Kyle.

If Mike, Monte, Ant, and KAT have the ball how does Kyle’s passing factor in? Regarding his high BBIQ, why do our turnovers usually go way up when he is on the floor if he can use the BBIQ to keep the defense honest?

Because floor spacing is critical. We have too many guys who don't understand that concept. It's far deeper than just whether or not a guy without the ball can shoot or not, but things like creating passing lanes, finding soft spots in the zone, positioning yourself to make the next pass to the corner, etc. These are ways that Kyle excels, even if he doesn't have the ball.

I honestly and sincerely hope you are right and he starts doing those things. It would be refreshing. So far the spacing is terrible with Kyle even when he is out there with Karl, Naz, Jaden, and NAW/Ant. These are some of our best floor spacing units (excluding Kyle,) and it still doesn’t space well. Maybe Kyle stays out of the corner and remembers his BBIQ.

[Klomp]

I honestly and sincerely hope you are right and he starts doing those things. It would be refreshing. So far the spacing is terrible with Kyle even when he is out there with Karl, Naz, Jaden, and NAW/Ant. These are some of our best floor spacing units (excluding Kyle,) and it still doesn’t space well. Maybe Kyle stays out of the corner and remembers his BBIQ.

Because he is the point guard in those lineups. He's at the top and everyone sags down. With Morris added to the second unit, Kyle becomes more of a connective guy off the ball to help break down the defense because he can find and exploit the soft spots.

[winforlose]

I honestly and sincerely hope you are right and he starts doing those things. It would be refreshing. So far the spacing is terrible with Kyle even when he is out there with Karl, Naz, Jaden, and NAW/Ant. These are some of our best floor spacing units (excluding Kyle,) and it still doesn’t space well. Maybe Kyle stays out of the corner and remembers his BBIQ.

Because he is the point guard in those lineups. He's at the top and everyone sags down. With Morris added to the second unit, Kyle becomes more of a connective guy off the ball to help break down the defense because he can find and exploit the soft spots.

So when Ant and/or NAW and/or JMAC are on ball, is Kyle the connective guy?

[BlacJacMac]

Tim is very good at seeing what the big issue is and addressing it with arguably the best option on the market.

In 2021-22, the Wolves biggest issues were interior defense, defensive rebounding and drop coverage. He went and got arguably the best in the league in those areas.
This year, our ball movement and turnovers are the issue, so we address it with someone who has consistently been among the best in A/TO.

I give this an 8/10. If you want more you have to explain why Wendell and Kyle are still on the team. Even in a paper thin buyout market everyone is more valuable than Wendell. As for Kyle, as interesting as his defense is, the live ball turnovers he causes (not just his,) more than negate his defensive impact. Which is why he is a net -7 per 100 possessions.

Instead of fixating on him being -7 overall, maybe we should see which lineups are dragging that down, and which ones he can excel with?

N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert | N. Reid: +28.4 in 83 minutes. (Small sample, but easily his 2nd largest amount of minutes among 5-man lineups).

K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert | N. Reid: +20.5 in 150 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | R. Gobert | N. Reid: +19.8 in 148 minutes.
K. Anderson | M. Conley | A. Edwards | R. Gobert: +15 in 125 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert: +9.8 in 145 minutes.
K. Anderson | A. Edwards | N. Reid | K. Towns: +7.8 in 197 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | A. Edwards | N. Reid: +4.1 in 280 minutes.

K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert: +12 in 336 minutes.
K. Anderson | A. Edwards | N. Reid: +9.9 in 438 minutes.
K. Anderson | M. Conley | R. Gobert: +8.3 in 265 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | R. Gobert: +8.2 in 248 minutes.

So it looks like he should be playing as much as possible with with Edwards, Gobert and/or Reid.

Interestingly, his worst matches were Shake and TBJ.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01/lineups/2024

[winforlose]

Tim is very good at seeing what the big issue is and addressing it with arguably the best option on the market.

In 2021-22, the Wolves biggest issues were interior defense, defensive rebounding and drop coverage. He went and got arguably the best in the league in those areas.
This year, our ball movement and turnovers are the issue, so we address it with someone who has consistently been among the best in A/TO.

I give this an 8/10. If you want more you have to explain why Wendell and Kyle are still on the team. Even in a paper thin buyout market everyone is more valuable than Wendell. As for Kyle, as interesting as his defense is, the live ball turnovers he causes (not just his,) more than negate his defensive impact. Which is why he is a net -7 per 100 possessions.

Instead of fixating on him being -7 overall, maybe we should see which lineups are dragging that down, and which ones he can excel with?

N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert | N. Reid: +28.4 in 83 minutes. (Small sample, but easily his 2nd largest amount of minutes among 5-man lineups).

K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert | N. Reid: +20.5 in 150 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | R. Gobert | N. Reid: +19.8 in 148 minutes.
K. Anderson | M. Conley | A. Edwards | R. Gobert: +15 in 125 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert: +9.8 in 145 minutes.
K. Anderson | A. Edwards | N. Reid | K. Towns: +7.8 in 197 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | A. Edwards | N. Reid: +4.1 in 280 minutes.

K. Anderson | A. Edwards | R. Gobert: +12 in 336 minutes.
K. Anderson | A. Edwards | N. Reid: +9.9 in 438 minutes.
K. Anderson | M. Conley | R. Gobert: +8.3 in 265 minutes.
N. Alexander-Walker | K. Anderson | R. Gobert: +8.2 in 248 minutes.

So it looks like he should be playing as much as possible with with Edwards, Gobert and/or Reid.

Interestingly, his worst matches were Shake and TBJ.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01/lineups/2024

Just checked your link. You should recheck his worst 3. Only one involves either Shake or Troy. The most common one is with NAW, Ant, Naz, and Karl. That lineup has a ton of floor spacing, and 2 alternate on ball guards in Ant and NAW. He has 127:00 minutes with that unit and is a -5.1 with turnovers at +9.8. Now I don’t think + turnovers is a positive in this context, is it? His absolute worst which only has 22 minutes is a -43.8. That lineup is the same as the one above but replaces Naz with Rudy. If Jaden is in foul trouble, and NAW is in for defense, this is a possible playoff rotation. NAW/Ant/Kyle/KAT/Rudy and is simply not functional with Kyle in the game. At least net per 100 possessions.

[KGdaBom]

You won’t hear me talking about trading Kyle this year. In fact I expect us to resign Kyle for 10-12 in the offseason using bird rights. I further expect Kyle to be traded in February 2025 to help improve the roster next year.

What you will hear is bench Kyle if we continue to lose, especially in the calamitous fashion we have been losing. If that bothers you, I apologize in advance.

It does bother me because I've already heard that opinion from you over 100 times. I don't need to hear it any more. Your mission is accomplished. I know you don't like him and want to limit his minutes as much as possible.

It is not about a mission, it is about post game analysis and discussion, especially heading into the playoffs. You can tell me Ant shouldn’t play hero ball, but every game he does it is relevant to talk about. You can say Karl should shoot more 3s, when he doesn’t we still talk about it. You can say Jaden needs to be more involved in the offense, when he is or isn’t we still talk about it. Repetition happens when the situation is ongoing and evolving.

I'm also completely over talking about Ant and hero ball and KAT needing to shoot more threes, but not nearly so much as I am over hearing how Kyle sucks and shouldn't play.

[winforlose]

It does bother me because I've already heard that opinion from you over 100 times. I don't need to hear it any more. Your mission is accomplished. I know you don't like him and want to limit his minutes as much as possible.

It is not about a mission, it is about post game analysis and discussion, especially heading into the playoffs. You can tell me Ant shouldn’t play hero ball, but every game he does it is relevant to talk about. You can say Karl should shoot more 3s, when he doesn’t we still talk about it. You can say Jaden needs to be more involved in the offense, when he is or isn’t we still talk about it. Repetition happens when the situation is ongoing and evolving.

I'm also completely over talking about Ant and hero ball and KAT needing to shoot more threes, but not nearly so much as I am over hearing how Kyle sucks and shouldn't play.

So what are acceptable topics for you?

[Klomp]

Just checked your link. You should recheck his worst 3. Only one involves either Shake or Troy.

Keep scrolling down to 2-man combinations.

[winforlose]

Just checked your link. You should recheck his worst 3. Only one involves either Shake or Troy.

Keep scrolling down to 2-man combinations.

The following are honest questions with no attitude intended. I am asking because I am not much of an advanced metric guy, and when pieces of information conflict I don’t always know why they conflict.

1. Kyle’s best 2 man pairing is JMAC, yet JMAC is not in any of his 3, 4, man pairings, and only in 1 5 man pairing. How does that work?

2. Why would a 2 man pairing be more important than a 5 man pairing in evaluating a lineup?

3. If a group of 4 does better regardless of the 5th what does that tell you?

[Klomp]

Just checked your link. You should recheck his worst 3. Only one involves either Shake or Troy.

Keep scrolling down to 2-man combinations.

The following are honest questions with no attitude intended. I am asking because I am not much of an advanced metric guy, and when pieces of information conflict I don’t always know why they conflict.

1. Kyle’s best 2 man pairing is JMAC, yet JMAC is not in any of his 3, 4, man pairings, and only in 1 5 man pairing. How does that work?

2. Why would a 2 man pairing be more important than a 5 man pairing in evaluating a lineup?

3. If a group of 4 does better regardless of the 5th what does that tell you?

Honestly, they are not my forte either. I'm just pointing out the part about Shake/Troy you were asking about.

[Nick K]

Read on Twitter

I said Connelly wouldn't wait until the last day. Good move I think. I hope it's not our early second from this year.

This isn't a good move it's a great move.

He's just what we need.

[winforlose]

Read on Twitter

I said Connelly wouldn't wait until the last day. Good move I think. I hope it's not our early second from this year.

This isn't a good move it's a great move.

He's just what we need.

I am thrilled to have Monte. He was #2 on my list, and if he signs a reasonable contract next year it will be a grandslam instead of simply a home run.

[Nick K]

[quote="shrink"]Finally.

You guys have heard me go on and on about this trade for two months. I’ll just remind people that it gives us Bird rights on Monte in case we can’t bring back Mike Conley, and that we may look to the buy out market to add players since our roster is down to 13.[/quote

I was with you from day 1 on Monte. I love the fit. He doesn't turn it over and he shoots it. He can play with Conley too when needed.

This front office makes another great decision. Better yet, when it becomes apparent they made a mistake, they cut bait and move on. I'm so impressed with Connelly.

[KGdaBom]

It is not about a mission, it is about post game analysis and discussion, especially heading into the playoffs. You can tell me Ant shouldn’t play hero ball, but every game he does it is relevant to talk about. You can say Karl should shoot more 3s, when he doesn’t we still talk about it. You can say Jaden needs to be more involved in the offense, when he is or isn’t we still talk about it. Repetition happens when the situation is ongoing and evolving.

I'm also completely over talking about Ant and hero ball and KAT needing to shoot more threes, but not nearly so much as I am over hearing how Kyle sucks and shouldn't play.

So what are acceptable topics for you?

The ones that don't annoy me. Talk about the game going on right now. What's happening with our competition for the Western conference title. I love talking about hot and cold hands. I love talking about RUDY RUDY RUDY!!!!!!!!!!! When he comes up huge for us. Many many topics are acceptable to me. The ones that annoy me are habitual, repetitive whining.

[winforlose]

I'm also completely over talking about Ant and hero ball and KAT needing to shoot more threes, but not nearly so much as I am over hearing how Kyle sucks and shouldn't play.

So what are acceptable topics for you?

The ones that don't annoy me. Talk about the game going on right now. What's happening with our competition for the Western conference title. I love talking about hot and cold hands. I love talking about RUDY RUDY RUDY!!!!!!!!!!! When he comes up huge for us. Many many topics are acceptable to me. The ones that annoy me are habitual, repetitive whining.

1. I thought you hate hot and cold hand conversations.

2. A lot of what is happening in the game is Ant going hero ball or Karl not taking enough 3s or rarely taking too many. It is Kyle needing to be benched and Rudy needing to play more PNP and PNR (he is really good at both.) I think you need to accept the fact that not all my opinions are positive, (preemptively I am gonna say I have plenty of positive things to say, I started both the Faith in Finch and Fun Facts and Unreal Stats topics, and was super hyped by the Gobert acquisition.)

3. If something annoys you just skim and skip.

[winforlose]

Finally.

You guys have heard me go on and on about this trade for two months. I’ll just remind people that it gives us Bird rights on Monte in case we can’t bring back Mike Conley, and that we may look to the buy out market to add players since our roster is down to 13.[/quote

I was with you from day 1 on Monte. I love the fit. He doesn't turn it over and he shoots it. He can play with Conley too when needed.

This front office makes another great decision. Better yet, when it becomes apparent they made a mistake, they cut bait and move on. I'm so impressed with Connelly.

I find Connelly to be a mixed bag. I feel like Moore was a huge whiff given the scarcity of first round picks. I wish he could have found a way to trade the other first player for Gobert and kept Kessler, (How good would we be with Kessler behind Rudy and learning from him.) I didn’t like losing V8 when his money wasn’t necessary for the deal, (we paid a king’s ransom in picks and swaps, it should have been enough.) I liked the Shake signing, but I was worried about roster construction with only Mike and JMAC as true PGs, and that obviously didn’t age well. I didn’t know what to expect with TBJ and that did age well. I like the Miller and Minott picks, but hate the Spangolo (might have spelled that wrong,) draft and stash, and the Clarke pick based on the videos I saw (seems like a less skilled Josh Okogie.) Overall I grade him well, but I still have some doubts and distrust about him.)

If Morris stays we are in great shape. If he leaves, I think we will regret trading for MM instead of Tyus.

[KGdaBom]

So what are acceptable topics for you?

The ones that don't annoy me. Talk about the game going on right now. What's happening with our competition for the Western conference title. I love talking about hot and cold hands. I love talking about RUDY RUDY RUDY!!!!!!!!!!! When he comes up huge for us. Many many topics are acceptable to me. The ones that annoy me are habitual, repetitive whining.

1. I thought you hate hot and cold hand conversations.

2. A lot of what is happening in the game is Ant going hero ball or Karl not taking enough 3s or rarely taking too many. It is Kyle needing to be benched and Rudy needing to play more PNP and PNR (he is really good at both.) I think you need to accept the fact that not all my opinions are positive, (preemptively I am gonna say I have plenty of positive things to say, I started both the Faith in Finch and Fun Facts and Unreal Stats topics, and was super hyped by the Gobert acquisition.)

3. If something annoys you just skim and skip.

I: I love talking about hot and cold hands to mock them.
2: First of all I know you often talk about positive things. I never accused you of being a negative Nellie. I don't think Ant plays hero ball nearly as often as many on this board seem to think. He's just a scapegoat when things go wrong. Next we've established that KAT should take more threes. We don't need to rehash it every single game. I already know you think Kyle should be benched. You whining about it again serves zero purpose. I wouldn't be annoyed by you talking about Rudy doing PNP and PNR. That has not yet been talked into the ground. Another thing I would love to never hear again is "KAT should never drive to the basket. He gets an offensive foul every time he does." That is a load of crap. KAT drives the basket many times very successfully. To take that out of his game would be a massive mistake.
3: I often do skim and skip. Sometimes I prefer to call people out for habitual, repetitive whining. I understand that many posters here like habitual, repetitive whining, but I'm certain I'm not the only person who gets annoyed by it.

[winforlose]

The ones that don't annoy me. Talk about the game going on right now. What's happening with our competition for the Western conference title. I love talking about hot and cold hands. I love talking about RUDY RUDY RUDY!!!!!!!!!!! When he comes up huge for us. Many many topics are acceptable to me. The ones that annoy me are habitual, repetitive whining.

1. I thought you hate hot and cold hand conversations.

2. A lot of what is happening in the game is Ant going hero ball or Karl not taking enough 3s or rarely taking too many. It is Kyle needing to be benched and Rudy needing to play more PNP and PNR (he is really good at both.) I think you need to accept the fact that not all my opinions are positive, (preemptively I am gonna say I have plenty of positive things to say, I started both the Faith in Finch and Fun Facts and Unreal Stats topics, and was super hyped by the Gobert acquisition.)

3. If something annoys you just skim and skip.

I: I love talking about hot and cold hands to mock them.
2: First of all I know you often talk about positive things. I never accused you of being a negative Nellie. I don't think Ant plays hero ball nearly as often as many on this board seem to think. He's just a scapegoat when things go wrong. Next we've established that KAT should take more threes. We don't need to rehash it every single game. I already know you think Kyle should be benched. You whining about it again serves zero purpose. I wouldn't be annoyed by you talking about Rudy doing PNP and PNR. That has not yet been talked into the ground. Another thing I would love to never hear again is "KAT should never drive to the basket. He gets an offensive foul every time he does." That is a load of crap. KAT drives the basket many times very successfully. To take that out of his game would be a massive mistake.
3: I often do skim and skip. Sometimes I prefer to call people out for habitual, repetitive whining.

1. You can mock it all you want, but AJ green was the hot hand last night for Bucks and they fed him. Mike was ours and we ran the same play 6 times for 6 made 3s. You denying that it exists is like standing in the rain and claiming water isn’t wet.

2. I never said and never will say KAT shouldn’t drive. I think he needs to stop falling when he does, but that is because I want him healthy. I also think KAT should average 10 3s a game and 20 shots a game, because he is a damn fine shooter. End of the day patterns and trends exist and need to be discussed. Otherwise what is the point of this place.

3. As for “repetitive whining,” I don’t call you out for the stuff you do that annoys me, so keep that in mind when calling me out. Skim and skip is your friend in situations like this.