Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[shrink]

I mentioned Suggs and Isaac, but both would be a step back if we traded Towns or Gobert. Isaac’s injury health scares me to death.

Another possibility would be Markannen and “something to get a PG.”. But while Markannen isn’t a big step back for a win now team and gets us younger, he also will be getting a big new contract.

It just seems to me the parameters for finding a deal that actually makes us better are too narrow. Add in that both Towns and Rudy want to be here, it makes me believe there is not a reasonable deal out there at this time, especially one that makes sense for another team (like DET).

We’re doing great right now with what we have. Let it ride.

[shrink]

If PG isn't the ultimate target and you just go for the best offer, I think it's fair to wonder about Jaylen Brown. It wouldn't be a cap savings deal necessarily, but would be a cap shifting, as the money goes from the bigs to the wings.

I’ve wondered, and Mikal Bridges. Both are good enough to bump one of our players to a bench role. But there are so many teams that should be able to offer BOS or BRK more, because adding either would be a bigger upgrade. We’re already strong on the wing.

[Klomp]

One thought with the young PGs are two guys who have had the injury bug, which is the only reason they'd be potentially available: LaMelo Ball or Cade Cunningham. Charlotte has an ownership situation that could beget change (though adding a supermax might not be where they want to go), while I think Towns is the type of big man that Monty Williams could really like.

[Klomp]

If PG isn't the ultimate target and you just go for the best offer, I think it's fair to wonder about Jaylen Brown. It wouldn't be a cap savings deal necessarily, but would be a cap shifting, as the money goes from the bigs to the wings.

I’ve wondered, and Mikal Bridges. Both are good enough to bump one of our players to a bench role. But there are so many teams that should be able to offer BOS or BRK more, because adding either would be a bigger upgrade. We’re already strong on the wing.

A Brooklyn offer could also "fill" the PG need with old friend (and soon-to-be expiring contract) Ben Simmons.

[Klomp]

If PG isn't the ultimate target and you just go for the best offer, I think it's fair to wonder about Jaylen Brown. It wouldn't be a cap savings deal necessarily, but would be a cap shifting, as the money goes from the bigs to the wings.

I’ve wondered, and Mikal Bridges. Both are good enough to bump one of our players to a bench role. But there are so many teams that should be able to offer BOS or BRK more, because adding either would be a bigger upgrade. We’re already strong on the wing.

I think you could still roll out a starting lineup with one of them, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid, Gobert.

[shrink]

Another way to look at how hard finding the right guy is, would be by positional ranking.

I’d probably have Towns as the #3 PF in the league

Giannis
Anthony Davis?
Towns
Zion?
JJJ?
Siakim?
Banchero?
Markannen?

Could we get the third best PG? Even a top ten guy? (Another source’s PG list)

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Luka Doncic
Jalen Brunson
Damian Lillard
De'Aaron Fox
Tyrese Maxey
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
Tyrese Haliburton
James Harden
Derrick White

If the bulk of these guys are off the table, we can’t afford to trade Towns for even an average starting PG, and expect to maintain.

[shrink]

If PG isn't the ultimate target and you just go for the best offer, I think it's fair to wonder about Jaylen Brown. It wouldn't be a cap savings deal necessarily, but would be a cap shifting, as the money goes from the bigs to the wings.

I’ve wondered, and Mikal Bridges. Both are good enough to bump one of our players to a bench role. But there are so many teams that should be able to offer BOS or BRK more, because adding either would be a bigger upgrade. We’re already strong on the wing.

I think you could still roll out a starting lineup with one of them, Edwards, McDaniels, Reid, Gobert.

No PG? Can Ant be a facilitator and not a ball-stopper?

[shrink]

If PG isn't the ultimate target and you just go for the best offer, I think it's fair to wonder about Jaylen Brown. It wouldn't be a cap savings deal necessarily, but would be a cap shifting, as the money goes from the bigs to the wings.

I’ve wondered, and Mikal Bridges. Both are good enough to bump one of our players to a bench role. But there are so many teams that should be able to offer BOS or BRK more, because adding either would be a bigger upgrade. We’re already strong on the wing.

A Brooklyn offer could also "fill" the PG need with old friend (and soon-to-be expiring contract) Ben Simmons.

I will find you and kill you.

[Neeva]

The problem with getting a blue chip is you have to pay a blue chip.

I'd imagine a big part of trading KAT would be to have enough money to resign Naz and NAW after next season. Maybe SloMo as well. Ideally (I guess) you trade him for up and coming players on reasonable deals and picks.

No matter who owns the Wolves, I don't see us spending like the Warriors. So would you rather have KAT or Naz plus NAW and whatever cheaper players and picks you could get for Towns?

That's why you do something like what Indiana did....get someone at the end of their rookie-scale deal or early in their rookie extension like Haliburton was. You add in guys with shorter deals who can either be allowed to expire or moved on for another piece down the road.

The problem is identifying which of those are out there and available in a trade for a center. I agree with wfl that Atlanta makes a good amount of sense, but I think it's an offer that can certainly be beat. I've honestly wondered how Memphis feels about Ja Morant at the moment (I think JJJ is a great frontcourt pairing with Towns). This is where I pushed that Immanuel Quickley is one of the few young guards that might have been available. Who knows what Brooklyn's plan is, but they could probably put something together. What is the future of Cade Cunningham in Detroit?

Towns for Cameron Johnson, Noah Clowney, 2027 FRP, 2028 FRP, 2029 FRP

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Re-sign Anderson, Morris, McLaughlin.

Gobert/Reid/Clowney
Anderson/Miller/Minott
McDaniels/Johnson/???
Edwards/NAW/Moore + Clarke (2W)
Conley/Morris/McLaughlin

Cameron Johnson is a good fit here as big wing / movement shooter. He fits here because in this case we will have a defensive core Gobert-Anderson-McDaniels-NAW, but we would need a konckdown shooter to make this roster work. Noah Clowney is very young 19yo bigman with developing skills. If he can improve his body and jumpshot he might be a perfect mobile stretch 4/5 for second unit.

Not nearly enough value , it needs to be Mikal Bridges instead of Johnson but I don’t see a trade to the nets working unless it’s a three teamer. The nets lack high level assets and trading for Kat without Bridges there is pointless because they will still suck. They should have traded Bridges last summer, and sold high on him, he’s not a batman or even a robin. He’s at best a third option.

Johnson on the wolves would be at best the 7th or 8th man, and his contract is horrible.

[Klomp]

Another way to look at how hard finding the right guy is, would be by positional ranking.

I’d probably have Towns as the #3 PF in the league

Giannis
Anthony Davis?
Towns
Zion?
JJJ?
Siakim?
Banchero?
Markannen?

Could we get the third best PG? Even a top ten guy? (Another source’s PG list)

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Luka Doncic
Jalen Brunson
Damian Lillard
De'Aaron Fox
Tyrese Maxey
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
Tyrese Haliburton
James Harden
Derrick White

If the bulk of these guys are off the table, we can’t afford to trade Towns for even an average starting PG, and expect to maintain.

That's why you go with youngish guys with potential to keep developing. Cunningham. Ball. Morant. Those would be where I start the asking price if I am Tim Connelly. If Rosas were still in charge, I would speculate Darius Garland too. Those are offers built in a similar framework to what we saw a few years ago between Indiana and Sacramento.

[shrink]

Another way to look at how hard finding the right guy is, would be by positional ranking.

I’d probably have Towns as the #3 PF in the league

Giannis
Anthony Davis?
Towns
Zion?
JJJ?
Siakim?
Banchero?
Markannen?

Could we get the third best PG? Even a top ten guy? (Another source’s PG list)

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Luka Doncic
Jalen Brunson
Damian Lillard
De'Aaron Fox
Tyrese Maxey
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
Tyrese Haliburton
James Harden
Derrick White

If the bulk of these guys are off the table, we can’t afford to trade Towns for even an average starting PG, and expect to maintain.

That's why you go with youngish guys with potential to keep developing. Cunningham. Ball. Morant. Those would be where I start the asking price if I am Tim Connelly. If Rosas were still in charge, I would speculate Darius Garland too. Those are offers built in a similar framework to what we saw a few years ago between Indiana and Sacramento.

Yes, and younger guys are cheaper too. It’s just a mighty tall hurdle to find a player that can grow to be as good a PG as Towns is a PF. And if they do, are they going to be happy with so much attention going to Ant?

For value and risk, I think it would take 2-3 players comparable to Darius Garland. However, teams (and fans) usually over-value their young, rising stars, valueing them like they are superstars, not potential superstars.

I don’t want to sound negative. I think this is the right direction. I just think it’s a very tiny needle to thread..

[wolves_89]

I’m not endorsing either trade, but would Suggs and Isaac make sense for Towns? For Gobert?

Suggs is a career 33% 3P%, but he’s 40% this year. What would Suggs next contract look like?

There are a few problems with a Suggs/Isaac package. First, I don't see Suggs having the shot creation or playmaking to ever be more than a high end role player. He just doesn't have enough ceiling to be the primary value coming back in a Towns deal. Second, even in what has been a relatively healthy season for Isaac, he might not even get to 900 minutes. The injury history and lack of availability make his value pretty minimal. Lastly, I see NAW and Suggs as being pretty similar in both on court value and play style. I'm not sure the Wolves could or should re-sign both NAW/Suggs and I think I'd rather keep NAW who will likely command a bit less on his next contract.

[shangrila]

If these are the expected returns for Towns then a lot of you are going to be disappointed when he's eventually traded.

[minimus]

We’re already strong on the wing.

We are strong on the wing because Anderson provides exceptional versatility: he can defend big wings, he can defend against smallball bigs, and he is a big ballhandler / passer. Once he leaves MIN will have a big void on the wing.

I don't hate it, but I think Naz is 100% the starting PF in that scenario - and I don't see any way McDaniels and Johnson are happy playing 24 MPG.

but we would need a konckdown shooter to make this roster work.

There are no minutes for another player at all.

You have 11 guys deserving regular rotation minutes - and that's not counting Minott, Clowney, Moore, Clark or any draft picks.

Yeah, if you are thinking about a likely trade target, the player should aim towards consolidation of talent. We already have good players we can’t find enough minutes for - we need at least one clear starter, significantly better than a current starter (with Towns gone, the PF spot would be significantly better than Naz). Personally, I think if KAT leaves, patient Naz deserves a chance to start, so a trade just makes us worse. Also, we are win now, so the value of a trade should barely come from picks. We want one, and at most two, win now players with comparable impact to Towns, or else a Towns trade is taking us in the wrong direction.

With how Conley, Anderson, Morris, McLaughlin (and NAW) are playing recently as group at PG, I am more concerned about combination of Anderson leaving as FA and Towns injury history.

Gobert, Garza are bigs
Towns, Anderson, Reid are big wings / hybrid bigs
McDaniels, TJ Warren, Edwards are wings
Conley, Morris, NAW, McLaughlin are guards

Another trade idea:

Towns for Kuzma, Bilal Coulibaly, three FRPs (2024, 2025, 2026)

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Kuzma/Reid/Miller
McDaniels/Coulibaly/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore + Clark
Conley/Morris/McLaughlin

[Note30]

Why not go all in? Go for the super big name.

I know I'll get a lot of **** for this but what if we did this in the summer:

DAL out: Doncic, Irving, Green
MIN in: Edwards, McDaniels, Conley

It fits better with timelines of our players.

Irving Morris
Doncic Green
NAW Anderson
Towns xx
Gobert Reid


Realistically I'd never actually do this nor would the respective franchises, but it's a fun exercise on the pros and cons.

[Domejandro]

I don't see a single upside for Dallas, in that deal. They trade arguably the two best players (certainly the most valuable and the third most valuable), get significantly worse, and get zero Draft capital in exchange. Just brutal for them.

[shrink]

Why not go all in? Go for the super big name.

Names this big only get traded when they demand it. But they also have the star power to force trades. If DAL fails to make the play offs, or Kyrie explodes …?

Along those same lines, I was listening to a pretty good Lakers podcaster point out that LeBron’s statement “I don’t have much time left,” could mean that if the Lakers don’t do even make it out of the Play In, LeBron might demand a trade to a championship contender. Maybe us? Gobert behind him, Ant as the engine, and Conley running the show could be appealing if he is trying to get that sixth ring to catch Jordan.

Would you do Towns for LeBron, if it only meant one season?

[Note30]

Why not go all in? Go for the super big name.

Names this big only get traded when they demand it. But they also have the star power to force trades. If DAL fails to make the play offs, or Kyrie explodes …?

Along those same lines, I was listening to a pretty good Lakers podcaster point out that LeBron’s statement “I don’t have much time left,” could mean that if the Lakers don’t do even make it out of the Play In, LeBron might demand a trade to a championship contender. Maybe us? Gobert behind him, Ant as the engine, and Conley running the show could be appealing if he is trying to get that sixth ring to catch Jordan.

Would you do Towns for LeBron, if it only meant one season?

Honestly, no. It's not at all worth it unless AD comes too.

[shangrila]

I may have made this point here before (or maybe it was the trade board), but if we were identifying a trade target in a Towns trade, wouldn’t it kind of be Towns himself?

We want to stay big, so we need a big man PF so we can keep McDaniels and Edwards at SF/SG with size advantages. Our PF needs to shoot three’s with Rudy, and preferably drive to the hoop to open up Ant’s midrange and three point game. He needs to be a blue chipper that other teams will want to double team him, so Ant doesn’t face as many double teams himself. Simultaneously, he needs to be very good but not have an ego, so he is willing to pass to Rudy, and let Ant become the star of the team. Loyalty to MIN is needed - we don’t want him demanding a trade after we get him. Experience with Chris Finch and some of the players is a plus.

The downside to Towns is his price - we would want someone cheaper. That said, a guy like I’m describing is not going to be cheap.

The driving stuff is irrelevant. If Towns never put the ball on the floor and barrelled into defenders like a wacky waving inflatable arm tube guy ever again our offence wouldn't suffer. It's nice to have, don't get me wrong, but overall cutting is more important for gravity.

Aside from that Towns probably does tick a lot of the relevant boxes. The bigger thing for me is how people play Jokic, cause being able to move Gobert to Gordon is a huge part of why we play them so tough. I can't remember how Naz does with this to be honest, but if he does tick that box then I'd argue he's the Towns replacement. Naz has seemed like the better fit with how he operates for the team, although he's clearly less talented individually than Towns.

Now you touched on his price and I think you've undersold it. He'll be at 50mil next season and up to 60mil by the end. That's absurdly expensive and a contract nobody wants to pay. I won't get too into my arguments again from the offseason because that went off the rails (ironic that you're all on the trade Towns train now though) but I'll reiterate one of my opinions; Towns is, was and never will be worth the supermax. He qualified on a technicality (as the 3rd centre in a 2 man race) that's since been closed. I won't argue it with you or anyone so feel free to disagree but I'd bet my house most of the NBA agrees with me.

But his contract is only half of the issue with Towns. His injury history is both significant and concerning at this point. Only 1 season in the last 5 has he played more than 60 games. 2 seasons have been 35 or below. He's actually not that far off Embiid in this respect, which should hopefully put it into perspective. Combine that with his contract and his value will be seriously depressed on the trade market.

[Klomp]

I may have made this point here before (or maybe it was the trade board), but if we were identifying a trade target in a Towns trade, wouldn’t it kind of be Towns himself?

We want to stay big, so we need a big man PF so we can keep McDaniels and Edwards at SF/SG with size advantages. Our PF needs to shoot three’s with Rudy, and preferably drive to the hoop to open up Ant’s midrange and three point game. He needs to be a blue chipper that other teams will want to double team him, so Ant doesn’t face as many double teams himself. Simultaneously, he needs to be very good but not have an ego, so he is willing to pass to Rudy, and let Ant become the star of the team. Loyalty to MIN is needed - we don’t want him demanding a trade after we get him. Experience with Chris Finch and some of the players is a plus.

The downside to Towns is his price - we would want someone cheaper. That said, a guy like I’m describing is not going to be cheap.

One name that checks a lot of boxes that I've thought about for a while is Michael Porter Jr. But chances of a trade working out for both sides are slim to none.