Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[TimberKat]

To me superMax should only count the max amount towards cap or should only offer to All NBA 1st or 2nd team members, if they make all nba team only once. Assume we end the season as Top 3 in the west, Ant likely makes third team. We are just very unlucky with Towns and Ant in that sense.

[winforlose]

To me superMax should only count the max amount towards cap or should only offer to All NBA 1st or 2nd team members, if they make all nba team only once. Assume we end the season as Top 3 in the west, Ant likely makes third team. We are just very unlucky with Towns and Ant in that sense.

Believe it or not it is harder to make 3rd team this year than last year. With set positions you are graded against a very specific set of players. With position-less rankings now in a healthy year Embiid, Jokic, Gobert, KAT, and Sabonis could all be All NBA all at once. Likewise where only three PGs were eligible now you expand that field as well.

Don’t overlook KAT for all NBA as well. His 50+/40+/87+ (could get to 90 on free throws, but even without it high 80s is still great for a big,) plus his 8.4 rebounds per game, and his improved defensive numbers make a strong case. With humans doing the evaluation (not just a formal with simple math,) they can factor in what happens when Karl shoots more or when Rudy is out and his rebounds go way up, ect…

End of the day, Ant does have a path, but at 22 it is far from certain. If he does make all NBA then you could argue the system is working. The Wolves would have 3 all NBA players and should pay 3 supermaxes for them. Even if it sucks for us.

[Dewey]

Nobody …. I mean nobody - cares about the money IF you win the title.

[shrink]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

[winforlose]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

If Embiid cannot play 20% of the season or more, than he was not top 15 that season. Think about all points he didn’t score, rebounds he didn’t gather, defense he didn’t play. Quantity matters. Sabonis playing 80 is more valuable than Embiid playing 60. Embiid’s legacy should reflect that.

[shrink]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

If Embiid cannot play 20% of the season or more, than he was not top 15 that season. Think about all points he didn’t score, rebounds he didn’t gather, defense he didn’t play. Quantity matters. Sabonis playing 80 is more valuable than Embiid playing 60. Embiid’s legacy should reflect that.

Like I said, I agree about availability. The problem is that the award for this season is used to qualify for a future contract.

Embiid is a player that should be eligible for the supermax. If DeMar DeRozan makes #20 and slides to #15, he shouldn’t be.

[winforlose]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

If Embiid cannot play 20% of the season or more, than he was not top 15 that season. Think about all points he didn’t score, rebounds he didn’t gather, defense he didn’t play. Quantity matters. Sabonis playing 80 is more valuable than Embiid playing 60. Embiid’s legacy should reflect that.

Like I said, I agree about availability. The problem is that the award for this season is used to qualify for a future contract.

Embiid is a player that should be eligible for the supermax. If DeMar DeRozan makes #20 and slides to #15, he shouldn’t be.

Fair. I think the supermax bonus should not be fully guaranteed. One good year sets up a huge bonus over 4 or 5. Instead the bonus should for 2 years guaranteed, but automatically extend an extra year every time that player reaches an all NBA. This puts less eggs in the contract year basket, and less burden on teams if the achievement was an aberration.

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

[KGdaBom]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

It seems right to me. A guy who plays half the season shouldn't get an award for the whole season.

[KGdaBom]

If Embiid cannot play 20% of the season or more, than he was not top 15 that season. Think about all points he didn’t score, rebounds he didn’t gather, defense he didn’t play. Quantity matters. Sabonis playing 80 is more valuable than Embiid playing 60. Embiid’s legacy should reflect that.

Like I said, I agree about availability. The problem is that the award for this season is used to qualify for a future contract.

Embiid is a player that should be eligible for the supermax. If DeMar DeRozan makes #20 and slides to #15, he shouldn’t be.

Fair. I think the supermax bonus should not be fully guaranteed. One good year sets up a huge bonus over 4 or 5. Instead the bonus should for 2 years guaranteed, but automatically extend an extra year every time that player reaches an all NBA. This puts less eggs in the contract year basket, and less burden on teams if the achievement was an aberration.

Good idea.

[BlacJacMac]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

If Embiid cannot play 20% of the season or more, than he was not top 15 that season. Think about all points he didn’t score, rebounds he didn’t gather, defense he didn’t play. Quantity matters. Sabonis playing 80 is more valuable than Embiid playing 60. Embiid’s legacy should reflect that.

Is raw numbers the best way to determine value?

76ers are 26-8 when Embiid plays. 6-14 when he doesn't. Its very possible that Embiid carries a sure lottery team to HCA in the first round of the Playoffs.

[winforlose]

I think Ant is getting All NBA. Voters reward winning, and national sportscasters give Ant the bulk of the credit for MIN’s success.

The 65 game limit has had an unforeseen problem of eliminating players from the top 15. For example, you might now see the #20 player make third team All NBA. While a player may be #20 in production, that doesn’t make him #20 in value, but he may go to his team and demand a supermax because the CBA makes him eligible.

Zach Lowe had an interesting solution, where first and second team All NBA should require 65 games played, but third team should not. This would help turn it back to the Top 15 players. I am a big believer that availability is important, but historically, not having a guy like Embiid even make third team doesn’t seem right to me.

If Embiid cannot play 20% of the season or more, than he was not top 15 that season. Think about all points he didn’t score, rebounds he didn’t gather, defense he didn’t play. Quantity matters. Sabonis playing 80 is more valuable than Embiid playing 60. Embiid’s legacy should reflect that.

Is raw numbers the best way to determine value?

76ers are 26-8 when Embiid plays. 6-14 when he doesn't. Its very possible that Embiid carries a sure lottery team to HCA in the first round of the Playoffs.

This point is fair. But isn’t the fact that he wasn’t there for 20 games important in your eyes? If he had missed only 10 they might have home court in the playoffs. If he missed none they might be first overall. If the guy cannot be on the floor then he cannot carry anything.

[Danimals]

I think super max contracts should only be able to be given by the team that drafted the player/aquired their rookie rights. Then the additional money should not count against the team’s cap/tax, unless the player is traded.

[shrink]

I wrote about team revenues on the Trade Board. ARod and Lore should build that arena rather than trade Towns to cut lux taxes.

2022-23 Team Revenues
GSW Revenues $765 (1st)
Ave Revenues $353
MIN Revenues $259 (29th)

Now, MIN may never make as much as GSW, with Chase as the newest arena in the NBA, but couldn’t MIN make at least average revenues with a new arena, a winning club and an exciting young Anthony Edwards (if he doesn’t ask out from losing)? For that to happen, their arena, (2nd oldest behind only MSG), will need to be replaced. Making $100 mil more in average NBA revenues would equal the tax bill, and the owners’ investment would raise the value of their entire franchise.

[minimus]

So MIN keep Towns as long as they are playing winning basketball. But watching MIN playing without Karl, I believe that obvious alternative is to trade Towns for wings or wing + guard and create more defensive minded UTA roster around Gobert. However, it looks like this organization believe that they can build something unique. Copy&cut from UTA means spread pick-n-roll + motion offense, which depends a lot on our ballhandlers to execute and shooter to able hit open corner threes. Building around Gobert-Towns-Edwards means much different offsensive scheme. The big question is whether Conley+Morris can give us stability at PG.

[winforlose]

So MIN keep Towns as long as they are playing winning basketball. But watching MIN playing without Karl, I believe that obvious alternative is to trade Towns for wings or wing + guard and create more defensive minded UTA roster around Gobert. However, it looks like this organization believe that they can build something unique. Copy&cut from UTA means spread pick-n-roll + motion offense, which depends a lot on our ballhandlers to execute and shooter to able hit open corner threes. Building around Gobert-Towns-Edwards means much different offsensive scheme. The big question is whether Conley+Morris can give us stability at PG.

When you watch the Wolves with Karl you see how his offensive versatility and gravity open things up for everyone else. As for defense, I don’t think anyone can truly ignore his impact anymore. LAL destroyed Naz inside, and the Clippers were not exactly struggling to get inside with Kyle replacing Karl in the first 18 minutes. A trade for Karl must begin with a blue chip rookie scale and a seasoned vet with star power. This is why Jalen Johnson and Dejounte Murray are an intriguing pair for us. But, Karl in his prime is still more valuable because of his size. Any team with Karl can play big. He can pair with literally any center and any small forward. Or he can play C and do a decent job if you have a PF who has the bulk to defend big as well.

The places we need to improve are the backup SF/PF (Kyle is not the answer,) the backup C (If Naz wants to move to full time SF/PF,) and maybe the 3rd string SG. With Karl down Jaden needs to move to PF, get NAW to starting SG, and hopefully Monte comes back and takes some burden off of Mike.

[Klomp]

Crazy offseason idea: Karl-Anthony Towns for Kevin Durant

Ant teams up with his idol, two of the superfriends team up in Phoenix

[Neeva]

Crazy offseason idea: Karl-Anthony Towns for Kevin Durant

Ant teams up with his idol, two of the superfriends team up in Phoenix

Tbh id rather have what phoenix gave up for Durant but I wouldn’t have given Cam Johnson that contract the Nets did.

[Note30]

Crazy offseason idea: Karl-Anthony Towns for Kevin Durant

Ant teams up with his idol, two of the superfriends team up in Phoenix

We're getting destroyed in value.

Unless we can three team that trade for Steph and trade Conley away that's a no from me dog.

[shrink]

Crazy offseason idea: Karl-Anthony Towns for Kevin Durant

Ant teams up with his idol, two of the superfriends team up in Phoenix

I have to admit, I’ve thought about this one a little over the few months, as the Suns have struggled. In a season where a lot of teams have had disappointment, the Suns are maybe the worst. With an expensive Big Three, they were considered a true contender before the season. They have been the worst team offensively in fourth quarters, which has led to having to battle to even make the play in.

What if Durant asks for a trade? He has the cache around the league to get himself traded, and I imagine the Timberwolves would be on his list of potential landing sites. KD is a hooper. He doesn’t care about market sizes or most of the BS you get with an NBA star.

If KD asks for a trade, the biggest risk for the Suns would be that Booker asked to leave as well. A trade for his buddy Towns might get him to stay, and try to win.

But does KD work for MIN. I think he might, but it does shorten our window and he doesn’t save us any money. But even at 35, he’s better than Towns. He’s averaging 27.6 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 5.3 APG, and 3P% 41.8. KAT is tight with Ant, but Ant probably wouldn’t mind a Towns trade if it brought back his idol. Durant is also a long, smart defender that fits our team. And as a PF he allows us to continue to bring Naz off the bench where he feasts.

I don’t know how to place a value on Durant, but this is the rare Towns trade that I wouldn’t quickly dismiss.