Over under on litigation duration

[KGdaBom]

This poll is intended for how long it will take for a binding ruling. Not counting endless appeals.

[KGdaBom]

The title was supposed to be Over/Under on Wolves ownership litigation. I'm not good with making polls. Can somebody help?

[shrink]

This avoids initial litigation if the NBA Board of Governors doesn’t accept Lore and ARod’s debt-financed latest offer, and they meet next month. I don’t know what’s in the other owners’ best interests, but I am pretty sure they aren’t going to allow any more, potentially under-financed new owners trying to buy a franchise on a lay away plan.

Even if you trust Taylor more than ARod and Lore, this could still be a bad thing. It means that there will be less potential new owners. When Taylor sells or dies, his heirs are going to want to sell their shares. I don’t see Becky Taylor owning the team, like we saw from the widows in POR and NOP. And without Glen, they could sell to the highest bidder, who may not want to stay in Minnesota with its old, unprofitable, arena.

Even then, it’s probably not the last we’ll hear of ARod and Lore. Without Board approval they can’t own the team, but they will likely sue for financial reimbursement, and I wouldn’t blame them if they wanted to sell their parts of the franchise - again, without Glen’s conditions of keeping it in Minnesota. I think someone said Glen is largest share owner with 48%, so if they could unify all the other limited owners, with 52%, they can do lots of damage in court, and to more than just Taylor. That litigation could take a long long time.

[younggunsmn]

The NBA could kill it by disqualifying Lore and Arod, but I don't think they can even vote to accept Lore and Arod's bid for the last 40% until the litigation plays out.

There are probably things they can do to strengthen Taylor's case in court though.

I expect it to drag out at least another year.

In the end these guys will sell their stakes and walk away with a lot of money to put into other things.

[winforlose]

Given that Glen locked out the 40% minority owners (Lore 27%, AROD 9%, and group 4%,) I would expect arbitration to be fast tracked. I think the BOG will approve them as well.

[thinktank]

This avoids initial litigation if the NBA Board of Governors doesn’t accept Lore and ARod’s debt-financed latest offer, and they meet next month. I don’t know what’s in the other owners’ best interests, but I am pretty sure they aren’t going to allow any more, potentially under-financed new owners trying to buy a franchise on a lay away plan.

Even if you trust Taylor more than ARod and Lore, this could still be a bad thing. It means that there will be less potential new owners. When Taylor sells or dies, his heirs are going to want to sell their shares. I don’t see Becky Taylor owning the team, like we saw from the widows in POR and NOP. And without Glen, they could sell to the highest bidder, who may not want to stay in Minnesota with its old, unprofitable, arena.

Even then, it’s probably not the last we’ll hear of ARod and Lore. Without Board approval they can’t own the team, but they will likely sue for financial reimbursement, and I wouldn’t blame them if they wanted to sell their parts of the franchise - again, without Glen’s conditions of keeping it in Minnesota. I think someone said Glen is largest share owner with 48%, so if they could unify all the other limited owners, with 52%, they can do lots of damage in court, and to more than just Taylor. That litigation could take a long long time.

“Debt-financed offer”? Please explain. Thanks in advance.

(I’ve been googling and have yet to come across any article about the sale that includes the word “debt”. I haven’t heard anyone use the word “debt” with regard to the Wolves sale except you just now.)

[frankenwolf]

I don’t know what’s in the other owners’ best interests, but I am pretty sure they aren’t going to allow any more, potentially under-financed new owners trying to buy a franchise on a lay away plan.

I want to make sure you understand that the "lay-away" plan was Glen's idea from the beginning, not done at the behest of A/Lore. Glen wanted to keep his hands in and "mentor" the new owners so they would have a better idea of what to expect when they finalized the sale. That was (partly) the reason the Glen had a hard time finding purchasers.

[shrink]

I don’t know what’s in the other owners’ best interests, but I am pretty sure they aren’t going to allow any more, potentially under-financed new owners trying to buy a franchise on a lay away plan.

I want to make sure you understand that the "lay-away" plan was Glen's idea from the beginning, not done at the behest of A/Lore. Glen wanted to keep his hands in and "mentor" the new owners so they would have a better idea of what to expect when they finalized the sale. That was (partly) the reason the Glen had a hard time finding purchasers.

No, I want to make sure you understand that this is Lore and ARod’s claim, and as far as I know, in the last three years, this is the first time anyone has said that.

If there is evidence it was stated this way before last week, I haven’t seen it, and you’re free to post it.

[frankenwolf]

I don’t know what’s in the other owners’ best interests, but I am pretty sure they aren’t going to allow any more, potentially under-financed new owners trying to buy a franchise on a lay away plan.

I want to make sure you understand that the "lay-away" plan was Glen's idea from the beginning, not done at the behest of A/Lore. Glen wanted to keep his hands in and "mentor" the new owners so they would have a better idea of what to expect when they finalized the sale. That was (partly) the reason the Glen had a hard time finding purchasers.

No, I want to make sure you understand that this is Lore and ARod’s claim, and as far as I know, in the last three years, this is the first time anyone has said that.

If there is evidence it was stated this way before last week, I haven’t seen it, and you’re free to post it.

Taylor, who turned 80 last month, has engaged in negotiations to sell the team numerous times in recent years, only to repeatedly balk. He openly advertised a desire to sell in July 2020 and, in Rodriguez and Lore, Taylor appears to have found buyers who were not only willing to meet his purchase price but also grant his well-known wish for a slow exit from his post.

Here is the whole article: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/sports/basketball/alex-rodriguez-marc-lore-timberwolves-sale.html

[shrink]

I appreciate that. Thanks frankenwolf. The narrative I always heard was that buyers were limited because Taylor only wanted to sell to someone that promised to keep the team in Minnesota. For the record, I will point out though that this does not say that Lore and ARod were able to pay the full amount, upfront. Both sides signed the deal as it was, so they each had motivations as is.

I went looking too, and it’s worrisome that before they turned to buy the Wolves, Lore and ARod (plus JLo’s money!), lost a bidding war with Steve Cohen for the Mets at $2.4 mil - one time payment. Lore “badly wanted it as a native New Yorker.” but went on to say “But it turns out we would have probably gone bankrupt if we’d bought the Mets, giving how much money that team was burning.” Don’t like hearing those words out of Lore’s mouth right now.

[Klomp]

I appreciate that. Thanks frankenwolf. I will point out though that this does not say that Lore and ARod were able to pay the full amount, upfront. Both sides were motivated to sign the deal as it was.

I went looking too, and it’s worrisome that before they turned to buy the Wolves, Lore and ARod (plus JLo’s money!), lost a bidding war with Steve Cohen for the Mets at $2.4 mil - one time payment. Lore “badly wanted it as a native New Yorker.” but went on to say “But it turns out we would have probably gone bankrupt if we’d bought the Mets, giving how much money that team was burning.” Don’t like hearing those words out of Lore’s mouth right now.

Are the Timberwolves still paying Bobby Bonilla $1.2 million every year for another decade like the Mets are?

There's also these dead money payments that they had as of last season (a bunch of it is now off the books):

Spotrac defines this as salaries from players who have been traded or released, as well as buyouts for declined options. Essentially, this is what the Mets are on the hook for this year (2023) for players who no longer reside on their roster.

Max Scherzer: $43.3 million
Justin Verlander: $43.3 million
Robinson Cano: $20.25 million
James McCann: $11 million
Mark Canha: $10.260 million
Eduardo Escobar: $9.113 million
David Robertson: $6.5 million
Tommy Pham: $4.36 million
Chris Flexen: $3.87 million
Darin Ruf: $3.25 million
Tommy Hunter: $686K
Dominic Leone: $359K
Gary Sanchez: $81K
T.J. McFarland: $70K
Zach Muckenhirn: $23K

https://elitesportsny.com/2023/08/08/mets-dead-money-situation-set-to-change-drastically-from-2023-to-2024/


That's burning money for sure.

[shrink]

Yikes! Bonilla makes me appreciate the NBA’s CBA, Luol Deng notwithstanding.

I don’t think Mets owner Steve Cohen has to worry about he or the Mets going bankrupt. He’s worth nearly $20 Billion dollars.

[frankenwolf]

Yikes! Bonilla makes me appreciate the NBA’s CBA, Luol Deng notwithstanding.

I don’t think Mets owner Steve Cohen has to worry about he or the Mets going bankrupt. He’s worth nearly $20 Billion dollars.

Yeah, Bobby made himself one heck of deal there.