Trade Apologists Are Why McHale Still Has A Job

Tekkenlaw · Post #21 » by **Tekkenlaw** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:50 am

I'm pissed about trading Chalmers, but I'm ok with the Mayo trade as long as he doesn't become a perennial all-star. We traded 1 starter for 2 starters and saved money. Mike Miller is well worth moving down from 3 to 5.

Post #22 » by **TheFranchise21** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:38 am

buzzbomb wrote:Goodbye chump star worshiper. Is it that this trade makes the so team much better that pains you so? Nothing to constantly bitch about? Is it that the best player in this trade is MM who's life long dream is to play for us? Or is it just that you had your precious little heart set on Mayo. Sniff...thats so sad. I think my favorite Wolves moment is the 4 hours that star lover chumps like you thought you got your wish. Was it good for you too? Oh yes Scott Tennimen, your tears taste so delicious. Maybe this can finally chase American Idol fans like you away. I hear Boston needs some more star worshiping bandwagon jumpers.

You sound lame, I would tell you to shut up but that would not be setting a good example for others. So I will say, change the tone of your posts. Everyone HAS BEEN tired of your narcissist attitude. BTW, um what team is Beasley on?

Ojmayo · Post #23 » by **Ojmayo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:05 am

Tekkenlaw wrote:I'm pissed about trading Chalmers, but I'm ok with the Mayo trade as long as he doesn't become a perennial all-star. We traded 1 starter for 2 starters and saved money. Mike Miller is well worth moving down from 3 to 5.

Mark my words Mayo will be a All star while Love will be a Bust star.......Everyone who thinks love is good you have forgotten that people like him tend to be bust in the Nba....As for miller have'nt heard a single word from him about the timberwolves I guess he knew he moved from 3rd worst team in the west to second........ He does'nt really care to be apart of this organization and you are right he gets injured a lot.

Kevin Love likes to give the ball more to his oppents rather then his team..... 1.9 assists and 2 turnovers......he is 6"8 and they say his 6"10 complete lie....Mchale is 6"9 and his taller then Love when standing next to him...A power foward who is shorter then Brewer......

"We traded 1star for none" Love will not be a star and when did Miller become a star?

Tekkenlaw · Post #24 » by **Tekkenlaw** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:08 am

Mayo still hasn't accomplished anything in the NBA, and he averaged more turnovers than Kevin Love did.

Ojmayo · Post #25 » by **Ojmayo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:18 am

Tekkenlaw wrote:Mayo still hasn't accomplished anything in the NBA, and he averaged more turnovers than Kevin Love did.

Mayo is a guard and guards tend to have more turnovers then other players. Kevin Love has accomplished anything in Nba either, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

casey · Post #26 » by **casey** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:22 am

I think the better question is why did you skip all your English classes?

Ojmayo · Post #27 » by **Ojmayo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:28 am

casey wrote:I think the better question is why did you skip all your English classes?

If your talking to me am in 11th grade, and I took Ap english in 10th grade. Both semesters were A's.....Need I say more?

casey · Post #28 » by **casey** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:36 am

Ojmayo wrote:
casey wrote:I think the better question is why did you skip all your English classes?

If your talking to me am in 11th grade, and I took Ap english in 10th grade. Both semesters were A's.....Need I say more?

...

Ojmayo · Post #29 » by **Ojmayo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:41 am

casey wrote:
Ojmayo wrote:
casey wrote:I think the better question is why did you skip all your English classes?

If your talking to me am in 11th grade, and I took Ap english in 10th grade. Both semesters were A's.....Need I say more?

...

Lets not argue....All knowing one

Post #30 » by **TheFranchise21** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:52 am

casey wrote:
Ojmayo wrote:
casey wrote:I think the better question is why did you skip all your English classes?

If your talking to me am in 11th grade, and I took Ap english in 10th grade. Both semesters were A's.....Need I say more?

...

You didn't catch all of his mistakes so hop off that high horse of yours.

Ojmayo · Post #31 » by **Ojmayo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:14 am

Last I recall when did this become a english forum? I have to admit I do alot of grammer mistakes,
but I tend to fix them(If its school related).But what interest me is that people[casey] like this that think to much of themselves go nowhere in life.

"Dont take this as an Insult."

wolves_fan_82au · Post #32 » by **wolves_fan_82au** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:16 am

the key here is Collins and Miller they both will help this team so much
i would go with this line up
C-Collins
PF-Jefferson
SF-Miller
SG-Foye
PG-Telfair
than have the bench of
SG/SF-Mccants
SF/PF-Gomes
PF/C-Love
C - Richard

thats a decent 9 man rotation

than we may have 3 1st rounders next year to draft a pg and centre (if love doesnt work out)

Ojmayo · Post #33 » by **Ojmayo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:27 am

wolves_fan_82au wrote:the key here is Collins and Miller they both will help this team so much
i would go with this line up
C-Collins
PF-Jefferson
SF-Miller
SG-Foye
PG-Telfair
than have the bench of
SG/SF-Mccants
SF/PF-Gomes
PF/C-Love
C - Richard

thats a decent 9 man rotation

than we may have 3 1st rounders next year to draft a pg and centre (if love doesnt work out)

Good line up but Randy at the 2 just does'nt fit. I think he can play the point if we give him time, because he is undersized for a 2. Miller at the 3 works perfect, and McChants should Start at the 2 even thought he is the same size as Randy but then we wont have a 6 foot point.Al will play the position eh wants to and Collins is our only hope for beening the center.

lurkingobeiscity · Post #34 » by **lurkingobeiscity** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:51 am

Your points are good in terms of fit for the wolves but the Wolves made out like bandits talentwise. I don't think mchale is a good gm at all but Miller can still be traded for some very valuable pieces, while Love imo was the third best talent in this draft(its at least debatable).

Diggr14 · Post #35 » by **Diggr14** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:29 am

you guys killed memphis in this trade. I can't believe as another teams fan (Bucks) that you guys cant see this. You got rid of a 6'4 hyper shooting prima donna and a fat prima donna in Antoine Walker and got back Kevin Love (all grit, you'll love him) and Mike fricken Miller who automatically becomes your best player and scorer.

People freak out about what Mayo can become.. personally I think Love has Elton Brand that can pass upside.. while Mayo has upside, but if he hits it... it's Brandon Roy... im guessing he will be more of a bust his first several years in the NBA. See Chauncey Billups when he was first drafted....or Harold Miner.

You guys absolutely killed Memphis in the deal, congratulations. BTW, the Grizzly board is funny.... they actually think they won the trade. Cant wait for the NBA season to start listening to them bitch and moan about their "savior" that cant shoot and hogs the ball.

Tirion · Post #36 » by **Tirion** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:03 am

younggunsmn wrote:Seriously this is mind-boggling from a psychological standpoint

exactly.
all this whining and crying and for who?
a guy who never even weared a wolves jersey?
a guy who didn't even wanted to be here?
seriously, this disgust me.
posters who didn't even blink when KG was traded, now get their panties in a bunch over some arrogant punk-ass kobe wannabe?
and you call yourself wolves fans?

Blue Wolf · Post #37 » by **Blue Wolf** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:23 pm

Let's go back to the original post.

First, the title of this thread is more worthy of Rube Chat than it is RealGM. This may not be what the OP intended, but it does set a poor tone for discussion nonetheless.

Anyway, point by point:

1. Pekovic. It sounds like discussions have taken place and the front office is satisfied the kid wants to come over in 2 years (not the 4 years or NEVER time-frame that the OP suggested). From what I've seen, he's a beast and well worth the 31st pick. DeAndre Jordan? DeAndre Jordan will be nowhere near this good in two years.

2. Trading Chalmers. Yeah, this one sucks. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. At that point, I would have taken a project center like Jordan just to bridge the gap until Pekovic could come over.

3. Kevin Love is a horrible fit at Center. No he's not. Physically, he may be undersized against some teams but Kevin Love understands the game of basketball at a level few big men ever do. He can play the high post, low post, draw opposing centers out to the 3-point line and give Al room to operate on offense. On defense, I expect Love will do a decent job from the start and steadily improve his defense year after year. Why? Position defense isn't rocket science; it's about BB IQ. This is why nearly all the 7-foot "potential guys" who come into the league each year fail miserably. Sure some of them have long NBA careers, but only because they're big and have come to understand the game just enough. Love is light years ahead of those guys in terms of knowing how to play and should only get better.

As for the perimeter defense, Love and Jefferson will block some shots but because of their "thickness" and physical style of play, but will probably be most effective at deterring penetration by physically punishing those who drive the paint.

4. Mike Miller. Defensive liability? Health concerns? Sure, he's also a hell of a player who could be moved at the 09/10 trade deadline for something else. In the mean time, he'll provide a veteran presence in the locker room. Too much of anything is just too much. That goes for youth as well (hello portland, earth to portland, hello). I think McHale is right in thinking that you need to mix in a few veterans and I see Miller's acquisition in the same way I did Terry Porter's and Sam Mitchell's and expect the Wolves to bring in one more vet this summer. And hey, maybe Corey can teach Mike defense and Miller can teach Brewer a jump shot. Sweet.

5. Cardinal and Collins. Cardinal? I don't care if he plays a minute. His contract fits the plan of having lots of cap room for 2010 free agency. Collins? Expiring, but hardly dead weight. He should be able to give us decent defense at the 5 against bigger teams in a three-man rotation with Al and Love. He will be a good stop-gap at least for this year.

6. No long-term answer at the guard position. Maybe not, but I also think it's way too early to make that pronouncement. Foye has showed a lot of promise in only a year-and-a-half of playing time and our team improved greatly once he returned to the lineup last year. I think Brewer's best fit long-term is at the 2. Once he develops a shot to make teams pay for not defending him, he'll be just fine and should cause fits for opposing 2-guards on defense. Telfair backs-up Foye. McCants, I believe he'll get most of the minutes at the 2 to start the year and that they'll again try to trade him come February.

Would keeping Mayo have helped? Sure, but it would have also forced Brewer to the 3 too much and diminished the minutes we have available to showcase McCants. Plus, Jaric would still be here grabbing minutes at the 2 and 3, and Collins, grabbing minutes at center, would not be.

7. Not getting a legitimate center. Actually we got two: Collins, the temporary fix; and Pekovic, a guy that some would have had as high as 3 on their board were it not for the contract situation. We also got Kevin Love who should be an effective 5 against teams without "elite" centers. As for "defense" wins championships...yes, it does but I think labeling our team as a defensive nightmare this early in the process is a bit premature.

8. This trade does not save us money. No, not really, but so what. I think targeting a major free agent next year would be too soon anyway.

9. No faith in McHale. I for one have much more faith in McHale to do a good rebuild job than I do in his ability to run things well once the rebuild has been completed. The reason? He actually did a phenomenal rebuild job with this franchise when he first took over, and with a team that was a lot worse off than this one. The other, he's never done. He's actually a pretty damn good trader as well. I think we win this trade with Memphis easily but as I've said, the Chalmers deal I don't understand.

10. Why hasn't Fred quit? We flat-out got a deal that made the trade worthwhile. Beyond that, ask Fred. I don't know what goes on inside the Timberwolves' front office, about who thinks what and so forth. Do you? If so, can I borrow that crystal ball when you're done with it?

11. Our conference rivals improved. Did they? Maybe, but at this point we're talking about nothing more than paper tigers. Where are the development minutes? Where is the veteran leadership? The fact is that it's too early to tell.

12. Nothing to show for it all besides Love. We got Mike Miller, a near-All Star type talent who's not "young" but ain't exactly old either. Miller's in the prime of his career, has a lot more trade value than anyone else in the deal, and fills a veteran leadership void as well.

13. Supermodel void. Lima Schmima...McHale's press conference attire made me go blind anyway. Use your imagination.

14. Justifiable anger. Maybe. But maybe an overreaction as well. In any case, calling people who don't agree with you "apologists" and making exaggerated statements such as "Pekovic will never play here" don't help your cause.

15. No more Wolves. Your decision.

16. Thanks. Thank you.

Last, even though I don't post much, I appreciate the "non-reactionary" nature of this board, the variety of opinions and the willingness of most posters to hold actual discussions rather than rely on insults and misstatements of fact to make their points. Please continue.

TrentTuckerForever · Post #38 » by **TrentTuckerForever** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:50 pm

Diggr14 wrote:personally I think Love has Elton Brand that can pass upside.. while Mayo has upside, but if he hits it... it's Brandon Roy...

I think that's a little high for Love. I see him as a shorter Brad Miller, or a less-explosive Al Horford who can shoot.

But for Mayo? That's spot on. And Roy is very good, no disrespect to him at all. But Wolves' fans have been reacting as if Mayo's ceiling is Kobe. HE thinks it is (and nothing wrong with a little self-confidence) but realistically Mayo's ceiling is more like Roy's. Good comparison.

Awoooga · Post #39 » by **Awoooga** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:40 pm

As a Knicks fan who loves College Basketball and the NBA Draft I have a few things to say.

This board needs to stop crying over spilt milk. OJ Mayo was not the greatest prospect in the history of the game as some one this board convinced themselves (either by watching his youtube highlights and/or by hearing his name since he was in the 8th grade). Mayo has his flaws and he has alot of them. He is a tweener both skill wise and size wise and is much older than his draft class. Does this mean that he will not be a good basketball player? No, but like all other prospect picked he is a risk, who may turn out good and may turn out bad.

Similarly, Kevin Love is a risk. Love has his flaws and his downsides but he has potential too, alot of it. He is a very skilled big man with an incredible basketball IQ and since when has being 6"8 without shoes constitute being undersized! Love could be a Horford or he could be a Sheldon Williams, we just do not know, not to mention, that Mike Miller came along in the deal, another high IQ intelligent and talented baller.

I understand alot of people here are upset and some have even jumped ship but please do not pass judgement so quickly. You still have a young, and talented team and I have a feeling that after seeing him play you might just love Love after all.

Jonathan Watters · Post #40 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:06 pm

The level of delusion on this thread is downright mind-boggling.

The only people who thought OJ Mayo was ever a step above the rest of the field as a prospect were Wolves fans and Chad Ford - both who were duped by Miami's obvious smoke screen. Those in the know were calling it a smoke screen from the moment it came out, and that's exactly what it was.

Not a SINGLE negative thing said about Love on this thread is something that couldn't be further applied to Mayo. Whether it is lack of size for his position, lack of fit, or defensive liabilities...some Wolves fans would rather believe that McHale screwed up than the sad reality of no real superstar being available at #3.

But McHale would get fired if people disagreed with a trade that pretty much everybody outside of a few tinfoil hat wearing Wolves fans has praised?

Fantasy camp must be nice...