Posey signed with Hornets, time for McHale-Ainge trade again

[TrentTuckerForever]

I want Gomes, but I don't know if the front office has other plans since they re-upped Craig Smith, drafted Love, and traded for Carney and Mike Miller. There might not be much left for Gomes to make it worth the price.

I think there's another move coming here, one involving multiple players. The depth chart as of today is something like:

Miller/Carney
Jefferson/Smith/Cardinal
Love/Collins/Madsen
Brewer/McCants
Foye

They could just resign Telfair and Gomes to 2 year deals and go to camp with that roster, but other teams (especially Boston and San Antonio) are going to be interested in what Gomes can bring.

Gomes, as a 3/4 man next to Jefferson, was the Wolves 2nd best player last year. I know it was a bad team, but considering that Gomes was very effective, the coaching staff has soured on McCants, and Foye is the only point guard, I think bigger changes are still coming.

[bruno sundov]

I forgot about Miller and Carney. You guys might not need him. I bet they could use him in a sign and trade.

[shrink]

I just wanted to clear up some misinformation about Gomes.

Gomes wouldn't a base year compensation player. While the increase in his new contract is a big enough percentage to qualify, he's not going to get it as an extension. So then, he's tradable without the BYC restrictions.

Gomes can't be signed with Bird or Early Bird Exceptions, which require 3 and 2 years with our team.

I'd also remind people that if Gomes doesn't get an offer he likes elsewhere, and isn't fond of MIN's offer, he may just play for the qualifying offer, and then become an unrestricted free agent next year. This is probably unlikely, because Gomes QO is only $1 mil, but he may be looking for more than the two years that the wolves are likely to offer. It should be noted that this was an option his agent mentioned specifically. The fact that we haven't even heard a rumor about another team's interest in Gomes probably means this option is still in play. I believe if he does this, and is playing for a 1-year deal, he can only be traded if he agrees.

[deeney0]

Are you sure Gomes' Early Bird Rights didn't come with him? I was under the belief they did.

[Worm Guts]

Are you sure Gomes' Early Bird Rights didn't come with him? I was under the belief they did.

I would think the Wolves would have Gomes' Early Bird Rights, assuming they follow the player during a trade like Bird Rights do.

[casey]

You're wrong on both counts shrink. He would be byc and we would be using bird rights to sign him. My fancy dancy phone can't copy and paste so you'll just have to check out Coon's FAQ yourself. Questions 19 and 73 should clear it up for ya.

[shrink]

You're wrong on both counts shrink. He would be byc and we would be using bird rights to sign him. My fancy dancy phone can't copy and paste so you'll just have to check out Coon's FAQ yourself. Questions 19 and 73 should clear it up for ya.

Thanks. As I read it, he's BYC if the Bird Exception is used, but why would MIN want to use a Bird Exception when the MLE would match that amount, and side-step BYC? I assume they don't want to spend more than BAE money on Telfair or their back-up PG, and that's even if they don't trade for one. Do you think they have some other use for the MLE?

[deeney0]

That's a question I've never thought of before - if a player can be signed using (Early) Bird rights, must he be?

[shrink]

BTW, you guys are all right, and I was wrong about the bird rights. As I understand it, they traveled with him in the trade. I was surprised to discover that after BOS picked Gomes with the 50th pick, they gave him a three-year deal. He must have been impressive right from the start.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand why, if we were paying the same amount for a contract, we'd use Bird Rights instead of just the MLE. If we are talking about trading Gomes, avoiding the BYC would seem to be the best way to go.

[casey]

The reason that wouldn't work is because you can't sign-and-trade a player using the mle, even if it's your own free agent.

[shrink]

I'm learning a lot today.

So I think I have this right now:

1. If you use a bird-exception, then you can do a sign-and-trade, but the player is BYC.

2. If you use the MLE, BAE, or DPE, you can't do a sign-and-trade. However, he could be traded after Dec 15th like a typical signing, but would not be BYC at that point.

[shrink]

OK, I played with the calculator a little considering BYC. As many of you know, when a player gets that BYC label, he becomes harder to salary match, because while he's looked at for full price to the team who receives him, he is only worth half price to the team giving up the player. For example, Gomes, or any BYC player, can't be dealt alone, because it would be impossible to get the salaries for both teams to be within 125% + $100,000

For example, suppose Gomes gets a deal that starts at $4 mil. The other team needs to send out salaries in a range of $3.12 to $5.1 mil to match. However, for MIN Gomes is considered a $2 mil player, and our range is $1.52 mil to $2.6 mil. Since the two ranges don't overlap, its impossible to do a straight up trade.

However, adding a player (who isn't BYC) increases the ranges and begins to even things out. Suppose Gomes gets the $4 mil deal again, and we add in McCants or Madsen, who both make about $2.62 mil. The other team's range is $5.216 to $8.375, and our range is $3.616 to $5.875. The salary range for the other side of the trade is narrow ($5.216 to $5.875), but possible.

A Gomes + McCants + Madsen package would be $9.25 ($7.25 going out) The target range there becomes $7.32 to $9.16.

Besides McCants and maybe Madsen, there aren't a lot of other Wolves that we would want to trade, or are eligible. Al, Foye and Brewer are probably here for a while, and the rest of the new additions can't be traded for a while. We could run simultaneous trades though with the $1.44 mil Green TPE, or toss in picks, but that's about all the pieces we have to play with. We can adjust Gomes salary ($4 mil was a guess anyway), but I think its very unlikely Gomes will be traded.

[the_bruce]

I was just reminded that since Gomes' contract was so low, and reasonable amount is going to make him a base-year compensation player, and he'll be extremely difficult to trade. Unless I was able to put together a much larger deal (which is highly unlikely with so many components having trade restrictions), Gomes probably won't be traded.

After throwing the numbers around a little, a Gomes for Scalabrine/Pruitt deal would work.

Boston out:
Brian Scalabrine - $3,206,897
Gabe Pruitt - $711,517
($3,918,414*1.25+$100,000=$4,998,017.50)
Boston in:
Ryan Gomes - $4,998,017

Minnesota out:
Ryan Gomes - $2,499,009 (BYC, 50% of actual salary)
($2,499,009*1.25+$100,000=$3,223,761.25)
Minnesota in:
Brian Scalabrine - $3,206,897
Gabe Pruitt - $711,517 (Minimum salary exception)

Impressive.

I think if this Gomes to BOS deal was made into a 3way with indiana it could end up suiting all the teams needs. Indy cant really clear capspace cuz of murpleavy so a future pick and letting scal ride the pine might be appealing to them. A future pick might be appealing to the wolves, but we are in pretty bad shape for a backup combo guard that can run the point. If foye goes down it could be trouble for us. Jack is by no means ideal, but he makes the short list of guys I'd consider

Basicly.

Bos in: Gomes
Ind in: Scal + (incentive)
MN in: Jack + pruit

Obviously Indiana needs incentive here, and maybe the BOS incentive(whatever that is) gets sent to indiana?

[shrink]

Bos in: Gomes
Ind in: Scal + (incentive)
MN in: Jack + pruit

Obviously Indiana needs incentive here, and maybe the BOS incentive(whatever that is) gets sent to indiana?

I thought casey's idea of using a player on the minimum was clever, and I liked your idea about getting Jarrett Jack a lot, so I played with it a bit. Clearly, I think the only incentive BOS can provide is a future 1st .. 2011 is the soonest, and that could be a valuable pick.

The problem arises on the IND end, which was frustrating because I thought I had a nice solution. IND needed to send out more salary to get within the limits of salary matching, and by including another minimum player (Stephen Graham), this would make the numbers work, and give the Pacers a little more incentive, since they wouldn't have to buy him out as their roster keeps swelling. Unfortunately, Jack was traded on July 9, there's a two month waiting period before he can be combined with other players in a trade.

I'd still do casey's deal (assuming it includes BOS 2011 pick with limited protections), but we'd have to find a different way to get Jack. Perhaps something involving McCants, where we get a little more back elsewhere.

[the_bruce]

Bos in: Gomes
Ind in: Scal + (incentive)
MN in: Jack + pruit

Obviously Indiana needs incentive here, and maybe the BOS incentive(whatever that is) gets sent to indiana?

I thought casey's idea of using a player on the minimum was clever, and I liked your idea about getting Jarrett Jack a lot, so I played with it a bit. Clearly, I think the only incentive BOS can provide is a future 1st .. 2011 is the soonest, and that could be a valuable pick.

The problem arises on the IND end, which was frustrating because I thought I had a nice solution. IND needed to send out more salary to get within the limits of salary matching, and by including another minimum player (Stephen Graham), this would make the numbers work, and give the Pacers a little more incentive, since they wouldn't have to buy him out as their roster keeps swelling. Unfortunately, Jack was traded on July 9, there's a two month waiting period before he can be combined with other players in a trade.

I'd still do casey's deal (assuming it includes BOS 2011 pick with limited protections), but we'd have to find a different way to get Jack. Perhaps something involving McCants, where we get a little more back elsewhere.

Just do it in 2 steps. Scal for jack should work straight up Post trade. bos mn trade. then mn ind trade

The easiest thing to do is Casey's trade, followed by Scal for Jack, sending the BOS cash 3m and the BOS 09 pick to IND, MN keeps the future pick 2011? attained from the initial trade, but sends next years in its place to indy.

[the_bruce]

oh ackkkkkkk. scal for jack doesnt work post trade. Apparently

[GregB]

Very interesting ideas. Due to luxury tax implications, I could see the Cs very motivated to do a deal like this. Not sure we would include Pruitt though. Early indications are he will be given a chance to earn the backup PG spot. We would prob be willing to include Big Baby or a couple seconds instead.

It does make sense for both sides though. Boston adds a player to replace Posey while not incurring to much extra luxury tax. Minnesota gets value for a player that they could lose for nothing.

Hopefully, They just try and sign him outright though. I dont think you guys would match a deal starting a 4m per.