MIN-PHI

[shrink]

I saw this on the Philly board. Thoughts?

Wolves Receives:
Andre Iguodala
Willie Green

Sixers Receives:
Mike Miller
Rashad McCants

Why for the wolves:
They got a pretty young core of Foye-Ai2-Brewer-Love-AlJ. And Ai2's passing and dribbling ability makes him a good compliment for Randy Foye.

Wolves:
Randy Foye
Andre Iguodala
Corey Brewer
Kevin Love
Al Jefferson

Why for the Sixers:
Mike Miller is one of the best shooters in the league. He shoots at 50FG% and 43.2 3pt%. He would fit perfectly at the SG position.

Rashad McCants adds another shooter to our bench. His scoring ability and wingspan could bump his way up to the starting line-up.

The trade gives us a more balance scoring from the perimeter. With Mike Miller/Thaddeus Young and while off the bench, Rush and McCants able to hit from long range.

Defensively, I think that Mike Miller can step a notch up. Because he need not work that much anymore on the offensive end, unlike with the Grizzlies. Thus, this shall give him more energy at the defensive end. And his length and size should be a plus. McCants is also a good defensive player because of his superb wingspan.

Sixers:
Andre Miller/Louis Williams
Mike Miller/Kareem Rush
Thaddeus Young/Rashad McCants
Elton Brand/Marreese Speights
Dalembert/Jason Smith

*If you guys think that this trade ain't fair for the Wolves. We can add Jason Smith for Mark Madsen. Madsen can help us in the play-offs, thru his experience and able to bang with opposing pf/c players down low.*

[Tekkenlaw]

I'd do it even though I really like Mike Miller. This team needs a slashing wing like Iggy.

[B Calrissian]

I am a fan of Iggy but the Wolves would no longer have the spacing that Miller and McCants would bring. That, plus I dislike Green's game makes me say pass. I would rather see the Wolves keep MIller and give McCants some big minutes for awhile to see what he really has.

[dunkonu21]

One of the few McCants deals that I have liked.

[SoSick]

I'd also say yes.It will give us a slashing wing with good perimeter D.

[shrink]

OK, I ran the numbers briefly. Iguodala would become base year compensation, and he'd have to agree to a max deal of a little over $10 mil. Jason Smith would need to be included. Madsen can be taken back with the TPE generated by the trade.

MIN IN: Andre Iguodala (S&T $10,071,516) + Jason Smith + Willie Green
MIN OUT: Mike Miller + Rashad McCants

MIN OUT $11,748,701. MIN IN: 14,785,876
CBA: $11,748,701 x 1.25 + $100,000 = $14,785,876 works under cba

PHI IN: Mike Miller + Rashad McCants
PHI OUT: Andre Iguodala (S&T $10,071,516) + Jason Smith + Willie Green

PHI OUT $9,750,118. PHI IN: $11,748,701
CBA: $9,750,118 x1.25 + $100,000 = $12,287,648 > $11,748,701 works under cba

Madsen for TPE/cap space.


Mike Miller 9,128,575 9,880,937
R.McCants 2,620,126
M. Madsen 2,630,000 2,840,000
----------------------------------------------
TOTAL PHI: 14,378,701 12,720,937

An.Iguodala 10,071,516 11,129,025 12,297,573 13,588,818 (10.5% raises, 4 years until an option)
Willie Green 3,388,000 3,682,000 3,976,000
Jason Smith 1,326,360 *
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL MIN: 14,785,876 14,811,025 16,273,573 13,588,818

2008-09 MIN ADDS: $0,407,175
2009-10 MIN ADDS: $2,090.088
2010-11 MIN ADDS: $16,273,573
2011-12 MIN ADDS: $13,588,818

*If we kept Jason Smith, add 1,418,880 2,187,913 for 2009 and 2010.

If we do this trade, we are saying goodbye to the 2010 cap space, particularly with Willie Green in the deal.

[the_bruce]

i dislike it losing the floor spreading ability isnt worth it even though we get the more talented player

[shrink]

Excerpts from a post I made on the Philly Trade board:

I haven't been following the Iguodala negotiations very closely, but I think a big hurdle here is if Iguodala is going to be willing to accept a $10 mil S&T off of a play-off bound Philadelphia and out to Minnesota. I tried to increase the price of the contract by including Mark Madsen inside the deal (not as a TPE add-on), to get PHI's total receiving money higher and raise the contract price to Iguodala. This failed narrowly because of Iggy's BYC status, which halves what's going out. In other words:

INCOMING: $14,378,701 (w/Madsen in the initial deal)
OUTGOING: $11,393,868 (Iggy 1/2 of $13,359,016). x 1.25 + $100,000 = $14,342,335 (max PHI can match)
... $14,342,335 < $14,378,701. This deal does not work under the cba

You can see how close that is. If Philadelphia simply had a second rounder, or rights to any small player, you could make this fly, but unfortunately, the Sixers had to renounce all their rights to players to get far enough under the salary cap to sign Elton Brand.

If Iguodala won't accept $10 mil, I see three options:

1. Use Speights instead of Jason Smith. His small increase in salary is enough to get the deal to fly, and Iguodala can get that $13.2 mil contract. Speights has higher upside, but maybe Smith would be more valuable this season since he knows your team and has a year of experience under his belt. MIN is still developing, so a player like Speights would be fine. Maybe they throw in a late first, but probably not. If the deal is done this way, Iggy's increased salary adds another $14 mil to their finances over the next four years, so "ouch."

2. Include Chris Richard in a S&T to give Iguodala a tiny bit of money more. MIN still has a qualifying offer out to the second year center, and they are loaded with big men right now. Richard is a second rounder signing for the QO, so I assume his contract will be unguaranteed and you could release him if you wanted, though at that price, he's probably not a bad big body to have around. So I guess the question would be whether its realistic that Iguodala would go to MIN for a contract starting at a little over $11 mil? That's something you'd have to answer.

MIN IN: $15,894,022 Iguodala ($11,179,662 S&T) + Jason Smith + Willie Green
MIN OUT: $12,635,218 Mike Miller + McCants + Chris Richard
$12,635,218 x 1.25 + $100,00 = $15,894,022 = $15,894,022 .. works under cba

PHI IN: $12,635,218 Mike Miller + McCants + Chris Richard
PHI OUT: $10,304,191 Iguodala ($11,179,662 S&T) + Jason Smith + Willie Green
$10,304,191 x 1.25 + $100,000 = $12,980,239 > $12,635,218 ... works under cba

Madsen for TPE/Cap Space

3. Forget Mike Miller and Rashad McCants

Finally, I should say that I differ from the MIN posters so far, and I wouldn't make these trades. No doubt Iguodala is a fine player, and better than Mike Miller (who's also very good). However, there are too many little things nagging at me. Would Iguodala be as happy here as Mike Miller? Miller's flexibility, and even willingness to come off the bench, is useful for a team that doesn't know which prospects will succeed and which will fail. The Wolves have made more moves over the last year than any NBA team revamping the roster and getting the finances in line. This had better be the pay-off, because they are taking on over $15 mil in the valuable 2010 free agency. I'm not criticizing Iguodala at all -- in fact, I think he's great. However, I would pass on the deal.

[SoSick]

If we do this trade, we are saying goodbye to the 2010 cap space, particularly with Willie Green in the deal.

that's the only thing i dislike about this trade.

OT:
you think we can make a deal for JR smith? I think he would fit well with this team.

[B Calrissian]

^I don't see how he would be a good fit with McCants already on the team.

[shrink]

^ McCants would be going out in the deal. Green is a bad contract in either case.

One other point. Supposedly, Iguodala has said he wants 6 years at $75 mil. With 10.5% raises, the first deal, starting at S&T $10,071,516 worth be $79.68 mil after six years, and meet his demands. However, that's the price Iggy said he'd take to play in Philadelphia, and I think he'd want more if he was going to be sent to the developing Wolves. Iguodala's 24.

GM 82, MIN, 39.5, FG 45.6%, FT 72.1%, 3P 32.9%, RPG 5.4, APG 4.8, SPG 2.1, BPG 0.6, PPG 19.9

[Krapinsky]

Won't do it. I'm too attached to Miller already. I love that he loves our team. He's going to be amazing for chemistry and leadership and spreading the floor. I wouldn't trade him really in any deal until i get to see him play in a wolves jersey first and see how valuable he is to our team. Additionally, Igoudala and Brewer's games are too similar, albeit far apart right now. If we were getting igoudala, I'd rather trade Brewer instead of McCants because Foye/Mccants/iggy works better than Foye/Brewer/Iggy.

[the_bruce]

meh if mccants could be a 1/2 decent defender and stay on the court for more minutes he'd have similar numbers to Iggy per40, whether he can do that is a whole different thread....

5.4 4.8 2.1 20.15189873
4.0 3.2 1.3 22.15613383

I'm with DR on the miller part to, I can't even think of a player I'd be willing to trade him for at this point.

As for mccants...I want to see what he will do this year. If he can do what he did last year and add some better\wiser defense then he is exactly what this team needs.

[jpatrick]

I know that the other parts of the deal would have to be changed to make it work under the salary cap, but I'd much rather give up Brewer and McCants then Miller and McCants. I'm a little worried about Brew already and Iggy duplicates alot of things that Brewer does (defense, BBIQ, etc) and has many of the same weaknesses, i.e. shooting.

I think Foye, Telfair, Iggy, Carney, Miller and Gomes would compliment each other nicely in the 1, 2 and 3 positions. And I know that keeping Miller will "hurt" our chances of signing a FA in 2010 if we keep him, but signing Iggy to a $12m/yr contract will pretty much kill those chances anyway.

[deeney0]

I think I'd do it. It's tough to part with the 2010 cap space (by far the most valuable thing outgoing in the deal), but Iggy is probably worth it. He's a very capable second fiddle. I don't see the Sixers doing this, though.

[Foye]

Well i think i wouldn't do it to because Iguodala doesn't help us improving ur bad shooting, while Miller does...

Sure Iguodala is a great defender which we lack but we have with Brewer a player who is mainly defensive minded on Iggy's position and once Brewers offense improves he can do the part iggy would be doing.

I don't see the 2010 cap space being a real option cause i don't think any superstar will be coming to us and all we can get is like an above average player for too much money or an old superstar (as many teams might have money in 2010) Neither of them will really help us in the future...
Superstars will go to a big market team or a team which they believe that could be a contender
since we are neither of that yet we have little chance to get one of the top 10 players in 2010...

This is why i would at least consider trading McC & Miller because Iggy has definitely still the potential to become better and is just 24.

[the_bruce]

meh while Iggy is only 24 and could get better, how much better could he get? He's already a very good defender and offensively I wouldn't say he is better than Miller or McCants. Certainly, a better slasher, but allround offense I think you have to give the nod to shaddy. I guess what I'm trying to say is iggys main offensive flaw is his shooting, but how much can he improve that when compared to McCants boneheaded defense? He's got a lot of room to grow on D, who knows if he will but itll be cheap to see...Last year was his first real full season where he got minutes. I gotta see this kid do what he do.

imo:
Miller + Capspace + Mccants > Iggy

frankly by quite a large margin.

[tviper]

Iggy has superstar potential and you have to add him if you can...as much as I love Miller on this team, Philly would only do the deal if he was included IMO...as others have said, Iggy is 24...with Love and Big Al, that is a playoff team that could do damage in a few years with the rest of the roster assembled...

I agree with the poster above, however, that no way Philly does this...Iggy will be a Sixer for sure, just a matter of time...

I was actually thinking of going after Josh Howard given this latest news...Dallas has to be sick of all the negative pub by now...I think he would fit in great with this team and you wouldn't necessarily have to give up Miller....

[karch34]

I don't see why Philly does the deal. I would since I think if Iggy isn't an All Star he's on the verge.

Miller and McCants are good players, but Iggy has higher upside and is already the best player in the deal.

Even if Iggy doesnt' have Miller's 3pt range he still prevents Al from being double teamed which is the point.

[TheFranchise21]

This is a very intriguing deal. Thanks for going over the finances shrink. Its good to know we'd give up our 2010 cap space with this trade.

There's no guarantee we can sign a guy of Igoudala's caliber come 2010. But then again, if we do sign a player in 2010, we won't have to give up Miller and McCants via trade to sign them. Isn't Miller's deal up after the 09-10 season? If we can re-sign him to a deal starting in the range of what he's making now, that would be great for our cap situation. He'll be 30 then so I doubt he's going to take a small paycut, if any at all.

Our goal coming into this offseason was to get a shooter and we got it (Miller). If we trade Miller and McCants, we don't have any shooters. I don't like the composition of our team initially after this trade. It's tempting, but I think I'd have to pass. Miller will be a super-solid guy for us, and there is still maybe a little untapped potential in Rashad.